Serge Ibaka extends with OKC - 4 Years 48 mil

[NOVoodoo]

while Ilbaka is an undersized PF destined to be a career Role-player. Also its much much harder to get an elite wing (which again Batum isn't but could be) while good PF are really not hard to come by.

Was that a typo about Serge being undersized? He's 6'10" and solidly built. What about that is undersized for a PF?

Also, good wings are actually very easy to come by. Big men are a harder get, especially in this day and age, hence why they always get overpaid.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Was that a typo about Serge being undersized? He's 6'10" and solidly built. What about that is undersized for a PF?

Also, good wings are actually very easy to come by. Big men are a harder get, especially in this day and age, hence why they always get overpaid.

I think Ibaka is better than Batum, and while Ibaka isn't really physically undersized, he's pretty bad at post defense, and horrid at post offense. He doesn't know how to used his size other than blocking shots and wide open dunks.

 

[NOVoodoo]

I think Ibaka is better than Batum, and while Ibaka isn't really physically undersized, he's pretty bad at post defense, and horrid at post offense. He doesn't know how to used his size other than blocking shots and wide open dunks.

Serge Ibaka's post defense is not bad. His defense is just overrated, as will happen with anyone who leads the league in steals or blocks, but I wouldn't go as far as saying he's a bad post defender.

The thing is that there's really just a lack of quality post players in the NBA these days in general, and having someone who can dominate the way Ibaka does on the weakside is more valuable than a wing player who can put up 15-20 ppg, as many players could if given the chance.

In the modern NBA, we'll overpay for size, but given the climate of the current game, it makes more sense to overpay our big men than our wings.

Also, with the criticism of Ibaka aside, James Harden is a very overrated player in his own right. The only player I've seen hack up more ill-advised shots than Harden is Damon Stoudamire, or maybe O.J. Mayo.

I've always been of the opinion that there are 10+ players that could do James Harden's job for a lower price tag than he'll be asking, but I'm not sure there are any players out there who could fill Ibaka's role.

 

[BlazerBeav]

Ibaka is better than Batum right now.

Disagree - Ibaka is made to look better by the fact that he is asked to do nothing on offense thanks to the pieces around him. As was mentioned above, he's a very good help defender, but can't guard bigs one-on-one.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Also, with the criticism of Ibaka aside, James Harden is a very overrated player in his own right. The only player I've seen hack up more ill-advised shots than Harden is Damon Stoudamire, or maybe O.J. Mayo.

You wanna see someone who takes more ill-advised shots than Harden? Look no further than his own teammate Russell Westbrook. Harden, and especially Durant are much more efficient scorers than Westbrook, yet during the playoffs Westbrook called his own number WAY too often. Durant is the 3-time defending scoring champ - THE best offensive player in the league. Yet, during the playoffs, Westbrook often completely froze him out in the 4th quarter of close games. During the playoffs, Durant played 70 more minutes, but attempted 24 fewer shots than Westbrook. The best way to stop Kevin Durant with the game on the line? Give the ball to Russell Westbrook.

And, Harden is also a more efficient scorer who gets far fewer shot attempts than Westbrook.

For the 2012 playoffs:

FGA/36:
Westbrook - 19.10
Durant - 16.47
Harden - 12.22

But...

TS%
Westbrook - .506
Durant - .632
Harden - .605

eFG%
Westbrook - .457
Durant - .570
Harden - .509

So, why is the worst shooting, least efficient scorer taking the most shots? You can also compare raw shooting percentages (especially 3FG%) and the fact that even though Westbrook dominates the ball, Durant and Harden draw more fouls, get to the line more often and shoot higher FT percentages. etc.

Given who he plays with, Westbrook may be the biggest ballhog in the entire NBA - MUCH worse at forcing up ill-advised shots than James Harden.

BNM

 

[Masbee]

Serge Ibaka's post defense is not bad. His defense is just overrated, as will happen with anyone who leads the league in steals or blocks, but I wouldn't go as far as saying he's a bad post defender.

The thing is that there's really just a lack of quality post players in the NBA these days in general, and having someone who can dominate the way Ibaka does on the weakside is more valuable than a wing player who can put up 15-20 ppg, as many players could if given the chance.

In the modern NBA, we'll overpay for size, but given the climate of the current game, it makes more sense to overpay our big men than our wings.

Also, with the criticism of Ibaka aside, James Harden is a very overrated player in his own right. The only player I've seen hack up more ill-advised shots than Harden is Damon Stoudamire, or maybe O.J. Mayo.

I've always been of the opinion that there are 10+ players that could do James Harden's job for a lower price tag than he'll be asking, but I'm not sure there are any players out there who could fill Ibaka's role.

Where do you get this?

Harden is as always has been an effecient scorer.

 

[Rhal]

Was that a typo about Serge being undersized? He's 6'10" and solidly built. What about that is undersized for a PF?

Also, good wings are actually very easy to come by. Big men are a harder get, especially in this day and age, hence why they always get overpaid.

Little bit of a typo, ment to say he is an undersized C who plays PF. His game is more suited towards a centers but he has a very hard time with guarding players who are stronger and bigger then him. If he had a better jumpshot he would be the perfect player to have if you had a C who could score like Al Jefferson or Greg Monroe.

 

[ironcrotch]

If he had a better jumpshot he would be the perfect player to have if you had a C who could score like Al Jefferson or Greg Monroe.

I think this is a common misconception about Ibaka. He's a very good shooter out to about 15 feet. There was a game against San Antonio where he went 11-11 with mostly jumpers and everyone was shocked but really if you watch footage of him in Spain before he was drafted he's always had it.

 

[Masbee]

I think this is a common misconception about Ibaka. He's a very good shooter out to about 15 feet. There was a game against San Antonio where he went 11-11 with mostly jumpers and everyone was shocked but really if you watch footage of him in Spain before he was drafted he's always had it.

Exactly.

He is so young. And already has the foundation for a quality jumper. If he can nail down a rock solid 20' jumper (like many bigs are able to do like Kurt Thomas, for example did early in his career), he will a contributor on offense instead of a liability, and tough to guard with his quickness and mobility.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I think this is a common misconception about Ibaka. He's a very good shooter out to about 15 feet. There was a game against San Antonio where he went 11-11 with mostly jumpers and everyone was shocked but really if you watch footage of him in Spain before he was drafted he's always had it.

Don't let a one game sample size fool you. Ibaka had a .417 eFG% on jump shots last season. And keep in mind most of those were wide open 12 - 15 footers as other teams deliberately left him wide open to focus on Durant, Westbrook and Harden. That number isn't horrible, but it's also not that great. Of further note, he was assisted on 87% of his made jump shots. That's a ridiculously high number and indicative of the fact that Ibaka can't create his own shot.

Another thing that's interesting about Ibaka is how often he gets his shot blocked around the basket. Of course, everyone knows about how many shots he blocks, but he also gets his own shot blocked at a very high rate (19% for "close shots" - as defined by 82games.com). When I saw that number, I immediately thought of other big men who are either undersized, or not known for their explosive athleticism. Comparing Ibaka to a few other big men:

% of Blocked Close Shots:
Serge Ibaka - 19%
Kevin Love - 13%
DaMarcus Cousins - 13%
David Lee - 12%
Carlos Boozer - 11%
Pau Gasol - 10%
Zach Randolph - 10%
Paul Millsap - 9%

And, just for reference...

LaMarcus Aldridge - 6%

So yeah, Ibaka swats a lot of shots, but he gets his own shot swatted a lot, too.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Exactly.

He is so young. And already has the foundation for a quality jumper. If he can nail down a rock solid 20' jumper (like many bigs are able to do like Kurt Thomas, for example did early in his career), he will a contributor on offense instead of a liability, and tough to guard with his quickness and mobility.

He's not there yet, most of the jump shots he makes are wide open 12 - 15 footers.

But, he's still young and can improve. In any case, OKC didn't give him a $50 million contract due to his scoring. He'll never be more than the 4th or 5th option on that team. So, any scoring they get out of him is a bonus. Best case, he can become consistent enough with his jumper that teams will actually be forced to guard him, meaning fewer double teams for Durant, and less help defense on Westbrook and Harden.

BNM

 

[The_Lillard_King]

From yahoo article:


Ibaka was the No. 24 pick in the draft in 2008, the same year Presti selected Westbrook. A native of the Republic of Congo, Ibaka remained overseas for a year before joining the Thunder and developing into a defensive stopper.

He led the NBA with 198 blocks in the 2010-11 season and finished second in the voting for Defensive Player of the Year last season after recording a league-best 241 - a franchise record 3.65 per game.

''He's come a long way in a short amount of time, but I've seen a lot of hard work that's gone into that on his behalf, and that gives us confidence that he's going to continue to work at it,'' Presti said.

Ibaka has steadily improved his offensive game, adding a mid-range jumper while starting to develop effective post moves. But he's best known for his defensive impact, particularly after blocking at least 10 shots in three games last season - once as part of a triple-double.

 

[PapaG]

Nice to see the Blazers aren't the only ones overpaying for role players under the new CBA. And make no mistake about it, that's what Ibaka is - a role player. The guy averages 9.1 pts/g and 7.5 reb/g and he gets a $50 million contract (latest word is it's $49 million guaranteed, and up to $51.5 million with incentives). He blocks a lot of shots, but that's really all he does. He can't guard bigger (either taller, or stronger) players in the post. Aldridge destroys him head-to-head. So, OKC has to put Perkins on Aldridge. That worked fine when Ibaka got to guard Camby or Joel, but in the last game against OKC, Hickson lit up Ibaka for 21 points on 9 - 10 shooting.

As mentioned above, resigning Harden will likely mean OKC will be at the luxury tax threshold with just their top five players in 2013-14 when Ibaka's and Harden's extensions would kick in. And the luxury tax penalties are MUCH higher under the new CBA. $10 million over the threshold = $2.50 for every $1.00 over. $15 million over = $3.25 penalty for every $1.00 over. Given that they will have another 10 roster spots to fill, extending both Harden and Ibaka could end up costing Clay Bennett and Aubrey McClendon nearly $200 million in luxury tax penalties over the 4 year length of those contract extensions. Personally, I'm all for anything that hits Bennett and McClendon in the wallet.

Of course, they can always save some money by dumping other players (like Perkins and Sefalosha), but that could weaken them on the court (at least on the defensive end) as they try to find cheap replacements for those guys.

BNM

OKC has 2 franchise players and overpaid for their 4th-best player, yet people are whining about Batum getting a 4-year contract when the team is obviously going to build through the draft with LMA as the franchise player, and Batum being the only other starter making over the MLE next season.

Basically, I completely agree with you, and I'll add that the Blazers are trying to solidify a foundation while paying for a young player who had his market price determined by another team.

 

[Eastoff]

OKC has 2 franchise players and overpaid for their 4th-best player, yet people are whining about Batum getting a 4-year contract when the team is obviously going to build through the draft with LMA as the franchise player, and Batum being the only other starter making over the MLE next season.

Basically, I completely agree with you, and I'll add that the Blazers are trying to solidify a foundation while paying for a young player who had his market price determined by another team.

I think someone forgot to t ake their crazy pills. That is a very good and rational argument. Maybe I forgot to take some pills because it makes sense to me.

 

[e_blazer]

OKC has 2 franchise players and overpaid for their 4th-best player, yet people are whining about Batum getting a 4-year contract when the team is obviously going to build through the draft with LMA as the franchise player, and Batum being the only other starter making over the MLE next season.

Basically, I completely agree with you, and I'll add that the Blazers are trying to solidify a foundation while paying for a young player who had his market price determined by another team.

To nitpick a bit, Wes makes more than the MLE, but otherwise...yeah.