Sergio a Knick?

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RR7 said:
Where was that veteran leadership out of Blake this post season, then?
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trust me.. I'm not one who think Blake fits long term.. I like the guy and his fire.. but hey Khryapa had the same traits.
 
Not syaing you do, sorry. In response to saying Blake and Joel will provide veteran leadership. I think too many people say veteran without truly explaining it, and others hear veteran, and just think of age. There's a difference, IMO, between aguy like Antonio McDyess, who can provide a solid veteran presence to our team,a nd a guy like, say, Mikki Moore, who is about the same age.
 
RR7 said:
Not syaing you do, sorry. In response to saying Blake and Joel will provide veteran leadership.
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You misunderstand my point. My point is not that Blake and Przybilla will provide veteran leadership. My point is that SodaPopinski's challenge is meaningless, because on virtually any team, you can identify some older players and claim that they meet the standard.

My own opinion is that "veteran leadership" is an immensely overrated concept and it's an after-the-fact narrative rather than a useful, predictive tool one can use to build a team. If Portland wins a title next year and Blake has some nice games and hits a big shot or two, I guarantee that there will be memes floated that Blake was an invaluable asset to the championship run due to his veteran savvy and coolness under pressure. The fact that such post hoc legends are written doesn't help us (or Pritchard) today decide what the team needs.

My default is that the team needs talent, preferably in the form of certain skillsets and at certain positions. Whether they come in the form of veterans or young players is not all that relevant to me.
 
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Minstrel said:
My own opinion is that "veteran leadership" is an immensely overrated concept and it's an after-the-fact narrative rather than a useful, predictive tool one can use to build a team. If Portland wins a title next year and Blake has some nice games and hits a big shot or two, I guarantee that there will be memes floated that Blake was an invaluable asset to the championship run due to his veteran savvy and coolness under pressure. The fact that such post hoc legends are written doesn't help us (or Pritchard) today decide what the team needs.
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+1

well said. None of the veteran leadership proponents talk much about the Spurs or Derek Fisher - Fisher sucked this offseason, and veteran leadership is supposed to be his calling card.
 
If the rumor is indeed true

no reason it can not just be Sergio and the #24 to NY for the #8 using one of NY trade exceptions to take on salary

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lsz6du

No need for Jeffries or Curry or ?

as far as the #8... think checkers.. hop skip and a jump to get to where you want to go....

besides.. Curry will more than likely not be available at #8... Minny may take him at #6 according to NBAdraft.net

EDIT: Added the #24 in the trade
 
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Trader Ed said:
If the rumor is indeed true

no reason it can not just be Sergio to NY for the #8 usin gone of NY trade exceptions to take on salary

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lsz6du

No need for Jeffries or Curry or ?
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It's not that a big salary was needed to make the deal work, the idea was that New York wouldn't deal the #8 pick straight up for Rodriguez and would want Portland to take back a bad salary as part of New York's motivation to do the deal.
 
I think there's 'something' to the veteran leadership thing. Obviously, you just don't bring in some old guy and think he brings veteran leadership.

Denver benefitted a great deal with it when they brought in Billups. Iverson was a vet, but was no leader whatsover.
Atlanta got a little more stable when they got Mike Bibby.
Philadelphia got much better when they brought in a guy like Andre Miller two seasons ago.

You can't dismiss or ignore experience altogether, and the experience of going through the grind of the playoffs. Pippen brought that in 2000, along with Steve Smith.
Of course, talent has something to do with it but completely throwing out the idea of a veteran presence who has been through the grind and can help our team is silly IMO.
 
alex42083 said:
I think there's 'something' to the veteran leadership thing. Obviously, you just don't bring in some old guy and think he brings veteran leadership.

Denver benefitted a great deal with it when they brought in Billups. Iverson was a vet, but was no leader whatsover.
Atlanta got a little more stable when they got Mike Bibby.
Philadelphia got much better when they brought in a guy like Andre Miller two seasons ago.

You can't dismiss or ignore experience altogether, and the experience of going through the grind of the playoffs. Pippen brought that in 2000, along with Steve Smith.
Of course, talent has something to do with it but completely throwing out the idea of a veteran presence who has been through the grind and can help our team is silly IMO.
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But how much leadership do we need when we have Roy? How many leaders does a team need?
 
alex42083 said:
I think there's 'something' to the veteran leadership thing. Obviously, you just don't bring in some old guy and think he brings veteran leadership.

Denver benefitted a great deal with it when they brought in Billups. Iverson was a vet, but was no leader whatsover.
Atlanta got a little more stable when they got Mike Bibby.
Philadelphia got much better when they brought in a guy like Andre Miller two seasons ago.
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The problem with these examples is that you're not doing anything to separate the "leadership" benefit from the benefit of their talent.

I would expect Denver to benefit from trading Iverson for Billups, because Billups is a much better player.
I would expect Atlanta to get a little better by adding Bibby, because Bibby is a decent player.
I would expect Philadelphia to get significantly better by adding Miller, because Miller is a very good player.

All of the gains can be explained by the talent element. Why do we need to add "veteran leadership" to the story? The Lakers got a lot better by adding Pau Gasol...is Gasol someone you'd have counted as a "veteran leader" prior to his going to LA? He improved them because he's a really good player.
 
Trader Ed said:
If the rumor is indeed true

no reason it can not just be Sergio to NY for the #8 usin gone of NY trade exceptions to take on salary

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lsz6du
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Why wouldn't they pull the trigger on that now then?

Is NY waiting to see who might fall to them and if they don't get their PG in the draft they'll then do this?

This would give us an additional $1.5M cap space, right?

I just don't see why NY would want to add even more salary.
 
Obviously the veteran, the guy with experience, has to have a good amount of talent. I'm not saying adding a guy like Kurt Thomas is suddenly going to vault us to bigger and better things.

Personally, I'm on the Hedo Turkoglu bandwagon. I think he fits what we need perfectly. He has that playoff experience and is battle tested. He can take the pressure off of Roy as the only playmaker at certain points in the game. We KNOW Orlando is not going to resign him.

I think adding someone like Hedo instantly puts us in the conversation for reaching the WCF.

-Pop
 
Trader Ed said:
If the rumor is indeed true

no reason it can not just be Sergio to NY for the #8 usin gone of NY trade exceptions to take on salary

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lsz6du

No need for Jeffries or Curry or ?

as far as the #8... think checkers.. hop skip and a jump to get to where you want to go....

besides.. Curry will more than likely not be available at #8... Minny may take him at #6 according to NBAdraft.net
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Right...we're getting the 8th pick for just Sergio....
 
this was a total plot by S2 to get more posts for the day I know it!
 
Crimson the Cat said:
Why wouldn't they pull the trigger on that now then?

Is NY waiting to see who might fall to them and if they don't get their PG in the draft they'll then do this?

This would give us an additional $1.5M cap space, right?

I just don't see why NY would want to add even more salary.
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OOPS I did mean to add in our #24
our #24 and Sergio for their #8 via the exception


They do not do it now it may be because Portland is targeting a specific player perhaps.... if that player drops to #8 then they do the deal
If its someone like Curry whom Minny may take at #6, does not drop, they do not do the deal
OR they do the #8 and something to get a higher pick
 
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Crimson the Cat said:
This would give us an additional $1.5M cap space, right?

I just don't see why NY would want to add even more salary.
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Not signing the #8 pick saves money and is cheaper with Sergio
Nate Robinson will be expensive and they may not resign him as well
D'Antoni likes Sergio

Lee is restricted FA right? He may have to be S&T as rumored

He may leave and they loose salary that way. Doesn't he want like $10 mil... I think I read a poster state... so if he leaves... they are loosing a big chunk and adding a small amount in a S&T

e.g. $7.5 mil incoming, $10 mil out
 
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Minstrel said:
The problem with these examples is that you're not doing anything to separate the "leadership" benefit from the benefit of their talent.

I would expect Denver to benefit from trading Iverson for Billups, because Billups is a much better player.
I would expect Atlanta to get a little better by adding Bibby, because Bibby is a decent player.
I would expect Philadelphia to get significantly better by adding Miller, because Miller is a very good player.

All of the gains can be explained by the talent element. Why do we need to add "veteran leadership" to the story? The Lakers got a lot better by adding Pau Gasol...is Gasol someone you'd have counted as a "veteran leader" prior to his going to LA? He improved them because he's a really good player.
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I think the thing is, some fans believe we can start winning now and challenge for the title next season. We bring in a guy like Rubio, and that probably delays it another year or two.
There's a big difference between bringing in another rookie like Rubio and a veteran like an Andre Miller or Billups or whoever for example, who's ready to go now.

Obviously, a rookie Billups is a lot different than what a veteran Billups is now. Chauncey wouldn't have done to the Nuggets this year if he was in his rookie, second or even third year in the league. He's the same talented player, but he's learned a lot and gone through the wars in his career and brought that team to another level. His teammates knew that, respected that and brought their game to another level.

I understand your guys' points who dismiss veteran leadership, but we already have so many players we need to develop.
 
alex42083 said:
I think the thing is, some fans believe we can start winning now and challenge for the title next season. We bring in a guy like Rubio, and that probably delays it another year or two.
There's a big difference between bringing in another rookie like Rubio and a veteran like an Andre Miller or Billups or whoever for example, who's ready to go now.
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I do agree with you that there's a difference between a prime talent and a developing talent. One can contribute a lot now, one may not.

To me, that's a different thing than "veteran leadership." A player like, say, Ramon Sessions may not be people's idea of a veteran leader, but I think he fits the "ready to contribute now" category. So that's what I mean by wanting talent at certain positions, whether it's a young player or a veteran player.
 
I think Sergio will do very well for the Knicks if this happens. He would be very good in a D'Antoni system.
 
Championship contention is dependent on Oden's development. Not on someone like Andre Miller, with all due respect.

If you have a chance to get Rubio without breaking the core - it would be really stupid not to do it.

Veteran leadership is needed for young teams that have no leadership and knucklehead teams with a bunch of misfits.

If the Blazers did not have Roy and LMA emerge with the support of Joel/Blake - they would need veteran leadership.
If the Blazers were a bunch of kids that like to chuck shots and do not like to play defense (Like Denver was before Billups got there) - they would need veteran leadership.

This team really does not "need" leadership or veteran leadership over what they already have. The leadership is in place via the coach/Roy/LMA, they play disciplined basketball like a veteran team already.

What is needed is the emergence of a consistent 3rd scorer and better perimeter defense. Between Oden and Bayless we will very likely solve the 3rd scorer issue - and if JB gets burn - our perimeter defense will improve (I suspect that having Oden carry more of the offensive load will also allow Roy to spend more energy on defense and we hope that Batum will continue to improve there as he gets stronger).

So - to my mind - if you have an opportunity to get a real special player in the draft given the core is intact - you do it - even if it does not give you a "veteran leader". If this is not possible (and let's face it - getting Rubio is a long long shot) - you try to solve the 3rd scorer or perimeter defense issue first - in any way possible...
 
Well considering that the only player who I have seen who didn't get about a 50% increase on offensive statistics in the D'antoni system was Marcus Banks, I am not sure what you are expecting. Most player love his system because of the emphasis on offense. I actually expect Sergio will have the same problems there, but they will be hidden better. Until he has to hit an open jumper.
 
I would think a deal such as this one would be a plan, but not the only plan. As fez mentioned, Washington might be another option for us. And if they want what we have they'd be best to figure out who we truly want and grab him at #5.
 
andalusian said:
What is needed is the emergence of a consistent 3rd scorer and better perimeter defense. Between Oden and Bayless we will very likely solve the 3rd scorer issue - and if JB gets burn - our perimeter defense will improve (I suspect that having Oden carry more of the offensive load will also allow Roy to spend more energy on defense and we hope that Batum will continue to improve there as he gets stronger).
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I hear that Rudy guy is a decent scorer as well.
 
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