Serious question

[Denny Crane]

Just put a bounty on every illegal.

New industry created!

Problem solved.

At least that's a realistic plan.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

At least that's a realistic plan.

SlyPokerDog for President!

 

[Denny Crane]

SlyPokerDog for President!

No. Crane/Shore 2016!

 

[The_Lillard_King]

People get deported all the time.

If you want to increase the number being deported, INS needs a lot more money. Raise taxes?

 

[maxiep]

Once word gets out of deportations, plenty will leave willingly.

I strongly disagree with Denny's characterization of how it would be done. The point is, it can be done.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I don't know on a national scale, but currently in Multnomah County jail, the feds have asked that anyone suspected of being illegal have a hold placed on them. MultCo has been doing this for years but it has gotten so out of hand that the jail is releasing people charged with a felony, sometimes violent felonies, so that they hold someone arrested for driving without a license because they are here illegally.

Finally . . . finally . . . MultCo said enough and starting releasing suspected illegal immigrants to hold the ones that pose a more serious threat to our community.

This immigration issue is not an easy answer to solve and will require more funds than the feds currently allocate to deal with this issue. I hope they get more funds and illegal immigration is dealt with swiftly and fairly.

(The ones that kill me are the ones that claim political asylum.)

 

[MARIS61]

To deport 11MM illegal immigrants, you are going to need a really big army. A bunch of jack booted thugs dressed up like soldiers. S.W.A.T. teams. There's at least 4 of them for every one of our men and women in the army, air force, navy, and marines combined.

You're going to go door to door and break them down. You're going to point guns at these people and demand their papers.

You're going to load up hundreds of thousands of school buses or those big canvas trucks with these people. Drive them to the border and at gun point force them to go across the border.

Meanwhile, you have some of these immigrants who had children here who are actual legal US citizens. You are going to deport them, too? Sure, why not. It's a fine way to get rid of even more of these people you don't want here.

You're probably going to have to shoot a bunch of them, because they won't go peacefully.

When they try to come back to get their things or reunite with friends and family, shoot them as they try to cross back into the country. That'll stop the problem, right?

I'm not thinking of the worst way to do this, it's the only way. It's exactly what you are talking about.

Nonsense. Roughly 8 million illegal aliens currently receive public assistance of all sorts on a monthly basis from state and federal agencies, mostly by mail. It's no secret who they are or where they live. Several million a year have direct contact with police departments and could simply be handed over to ICE as several states are attempting to do already.

 

[MARIS61]

People get deported all the time.

If you want to increase the number being deported, INS needs a lot more money. Raise taxes?

INS has all the money it needs already. DHS is simply spending most of it spying on legal citizens.

 

[Denny Crane]

Once word gets out of deportations, plenty will leave willingly.

I strongly disagree with Denny's characterization of how it would be done. The point is, it can be done.

The US deported 400,000 illegal immigrants last year. Word isn't getting out?

800,000 new immigrants got in.

So you're suggesting we simply threaten them so they'll leave? I think they'll just laugh at that notion.

80% of undocumented aliens have been in the US for 7+ years. When you live someplace for 7+ years, it's your home. Not somewhere else YOU determine is their home.

10% of undocumented aliens are canadian. Why don't we have 1/10th the military action, build fences, etc., on that border?

The US/Mexican border once was the longest peaceful border in the world. Now it's a combat zone.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

INS has all the money it needs already. DHS is simply spending most of it spying on legal citizens.

Nonsense.

They don't even have enough money to house the small percentage of illegal immigrants they are deporting during the deportation process. There is a real "practical" factor that comes in when talking these numbers.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I don't know on a national scale, but currently in Multnomah County jail, the feds have asked that anyone suspected of being illegal have a hold placed on them. MultCo has been doing this for years but it has gotten so out of hand that the jail is releasing people charged with a felony, sometimes violent felonies, so that they hold someone arrested for driving without a license because they are here illegally.

Finally . . . finally . . . MultCo said enough and starting releasing suspected illegal immigrants to hold the ones that pose a more serious threat to our community.

This immigration issue is not an easy answer to solve and will require more funds than the feds currently allocate to deal with this issue. I hope they get more funds and illegal immigration is dealt with swiftly and fairly.

(The ones that kill me are the ones that claim political asylum.)

I'm sorry but that is complete bullshit. Multco does not release dangerous felons to keep illegals in jail. They work on a matrix system where the lowest risk criminals are released first. They just updated their website and all of the stats are there. http://www.mcso.us/profiles/

Also part of Measure 11 was set bail and pre trial release requirements.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I'm sorry but that is complete bullshit. Multco does not release dangerous felons to keep illegals in jail. They work on a matrix system where the lowest risk criminals are released first. They just updated their website and all of the stats are there. http://www.mcso.us/profiles/

Also part of Measure 11 was set bail and pre trial release requirements.

I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about:

PORTLAND, Ore. – It's no secret the jail in Portland is full. Now Multnomah County's sheriff says he needs to start letting some suspected illegal immigrants go to make room for more serious criminals.

Sheriff Dan Staton says it's the best choice in a bad situation.

He doesn't want any inmates out early but faced with releasing some criminals who have committed violent crimes versus some illegals arrested for minor crimes, he says the choice is clear.

The federal government asks the sheriff and others to hold suspected illegal immigrants for 48 hours so Immigration and Customs Enforcement can investigate whether they're here illegally. The sheriff says if he holds them, he has to release other inmates.

Since the first of the month, the types of serious criminals who were released included those accused of unlawful use of a weapon, assault, robbery and attempt to elude, which means leading police on a car chase.



http://www.katu.com/news/local/Sher...-to-release-illegal-immigrants-200672021.html

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about:

PORTLAND, Ore. – It's no secret the jail in Portland is full. Now Multnomah County's sheriff says he needs to start letting some suspected illegal immigrants go to make room for more serious criminals.

Sheriff Dan Staton says it's the best choice in a bad situation.

He doesn't want any inmates out early but faced with releasing some criminals who have committed violent crimes versus some illegals arrested for minor crimes, he says the choice is clear.

The federal government asks the sheriff and others to hold suspected illegal immigrants for 48 hours so Immigration and Customs Enforcement can investigate whether they're here illegally. The sheriff says if he holds them, he has to release other inmates.

Since the first of the month, the types of serious criminals who were released included those accused of unlawful use of a weapon, assault, robbery and attempt to elude, which means leading police on a car chase.



http://www.katu.com/news/local/Sher...-to-release-illegal-immigrants-200672021.html

MARIS61 is a suspected illegal immigrant. How about we hold him in jail for 48 hours? Lets arrest him next week, too. And the week after.

 

[maxiep]

The US deported 400,000 illegal immigrants last year. Word isn't getting out?

800,000 new immigrants got in.

So you're suggesting we simply threaten them so they'll leave? I think they'll just laugh at that notion.

80% of undocumented aliens have been in the US for 7+ years. When you live someplace for 7+ years, it's your home. Not somewhere else YOU determine is their home.

10% of undocumented aliens are canadian. Why don't we have 1/10th the military action, build fences, etc., on that border?

The US/Mexican border once was the longest peaceful border in the world. Now it's a combat zone.

Nice to see you on the Blame America First team.

Denny, you and I simply have a fundamental disagreement on the nature of what makes a citizen.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about:

PORTLAND, Ore. – It's no secret the jail in Portland is full. Now Multnomah County's sheriff says he needs to start letting some suspected illegal immigrants go to make room for more serious criminals.

Sheriff Dan Staton says it's the best choice in a bad situation.

He doesn't want any inmates out early but faced with releasing some criminals who have committed violent crimes versus some illegals arrested for minor crimes, he says the choice is clear.

The federal government asks the sheriff and others to hold suspected illegal immigrants for 48 hours so Immigration and Customs Enforcement can investigate whether they're here illegally. The sheriff says if he holds them, he has to release other inmates.

Since the first of the month, the types of serious criminals who were released included those accused of unlawful use of a weapon, assault, robbery and attempt to elude, which means leading police on a car chase.



http://www.katu.com/news/local/Sher...-to-release-illegal-immigrants-200672021.html

What the Sheriff is neglecting to say is that every serious felon released was released by Close Street Supervision under high bail and electronic monitoring. Where they were released to was investigated, inspected and approved and then the decision to allow them to be released was made by a judge.

Dangerous criminals are not just being randomly released from jail. The offenders being released without supervision are low level offenders like shoplifters and other misdemeanors.

In 2010 only 13 inmates were emergency released. Last month 42 prisoners were emergency released but that is because the sheriff has closed 2 pods (50 beds) at the Inverness Jail.

 

[Denny Crane]

Nice to see you on the Blame America First team.

Denny, you and I simply have a fundamental disagreement on the nature of what makes a citizen.

I didn't say they should be citizens.

The constitution is clear that congress determines the qualifications for citizenship. I'm fine with whatever they decide.

I'm not blaming America. Sheesh.

I'm not happy to militarize the border and to make these people into our enemies.

I'd rather see them pay taxes so my kids won't have to pay an even higher tax rate so you can collect social security.

 

[maxiep]

I didn't say they should be citizens.

The constitution is clear that congress determines the qualifications for citizenship. I'm fine with whatever they decide.

I'm not blaming America. Sheesh.

I'm not happy to militarize the border and to make these people into our enemies.

I'd rather see them pay taxes so my kids won't have to pay an even higher tax rate so you can collect social security.

Again, you and I have a different view.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

What the Sheriff is neglecting to say is that every serious felon released was released by Close Street Supervision under high bail and electronic monitoring. Where they were released to was investigated, inspected and approved and then the decision to allow them to be released was made by a judge.

Dangerous criminals are not just being randomly released from jail. The offenders being released without supervision are low level offenders like shoplifters and other misdemeanors.

In 2010 only 13 inmates were emergency released. Last month 42 prisoners were emergency released but that is because the sheriff has closed 2 pods (50 beds) at the Inverness Jail.

This also is wrong on so many levels.

First and foremost, what I said is not complete BS since a high ranking official is saying the exact same thing.

Second, release is a release. It may be supervised, but make no mistake it is releasing someone from jail. If you are going to draw a distinction. between supervised release, why don't they release the illegal immigrants to supervised release and hold the more serious people with crimes in jail (the way matriix is suppose to work). But in any event, the discussion was releasing people with more serious crimes from jail to hold petty crime illegal immigrants in jail . . . and thank god that is now happening in MULTCO. (Washington County needs to do the same.)

Third, it does not take a judges order to force the release of prisoners. That is a jail capacity issue and the jurisdiction of Multnomah County Sheriff's Office not the Multnomah County Circuit Court. You are confusing a judge allowing someone released on supervised supervision with the jail force releasing someone in spite of the fact the courts have put a bail hold them.

Fourth, dangerous criminals are being released from jail through a system implemented by the jail when they get over crowded. That is the whole issue issue the Sheriff raised, which by the way he was successful in changing policy . . . imagine that. It's because what he was saying was true and not as you say neglecting to give the whole truth.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

BTW, it's not just the sheriff saying this.

Multnomah County Chair Jeff Cogen explains, "People who've been arrested locally, spent time in our jail, and the local jail time is over. But the federal government asks us to keep holding onto them anyway."

In theory, ICE would continue to investigate the detainees for immigration violations. But in practice, Multnomah County statistics show that over an eleven month period, ICE failed to act on over six hundred detainees' cases.

While the county can get a limited subsidy for housing the inmates, the county says taxpayers still picked up part of the bill.

Cogen says Commissioners have come to believe that the low-level offenders in this group do not belong in the county jail. These suspects were charged with anything from offensive littering to disorderly conduct to giving false information to police.

He notes Multnomah County is so strapped for resources that suspects accused of worse crimes are regularly released because the jail is full - thanks in part to beds reserved for ICE's I-247 detainers.

"I think this is primarily an issue of justice, about doing the right thing, but it definitely has budget implications," Jeff Cogen.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

This also is wrong on so many levels.

First and foremost, what I said is not complete BS since a high ranking official is saying the exact same thing.

Second, release is a release. It may be supervised, but make no mistake it is releasing someone from jail. If you are going to draw a distinction. between supervised release, why don't they release the illegal immigrants to supervised release and hold the more serious people with crimes in jail (the way matriix is suppose to work). But in any event, the discussion was releasing people with more serious crimes from jail to hold petty crime illegal immigrants in jail . . . and thank god that is now happening in MULTCO. (Washington County needs to do the same.)

Third, it does not take a judges order to force the release of prisoners. That is a jail capacity issue and the jurisdiction of Multnomah County Sheriff's Office not the Multnomah County Circuit Court. You are confusing a judge allowing someone released on supervised supervision with the jail force releasing someone in spite of the fact the courts have put a bail hold them.

Fourth, dangerous criminals are being released from jail through a system implemented by the jail when they get over crowded. That is the whole issue issue the Sheriff raised, which by the way he was successful in changing policy . . . imagine that. It's because what he was saying was true and not as you say neglecting to give the whole truth.

In the Multco jail there are an average of 1250 inmates in custody at all times. There were 42 inmates emergency released last month. Every inmate released was charged with a drug crime, property crime, behavioral or traffic crime. That is per the Multco stats for last month. Those are not dangerous felons. Dangerous felons are not being released in order for illegals to be housed in Multco.

Dangerous felons can not and will not be emergency released.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

BTW, it's not just the sheriff saying this.

Multnomah County Chair Jeff Cogen explains, "People who've been arrested locally, spent time in our jail, and the local jail time is over. But the federal government asks us to keep holding onto them anyway."

In theory, ICE would continue to investigate the detainees for immigration violations. But in practice, Multnomah County statistics show that over an eleven month period, ICE failed to act on over six hundred detainees' cases.

While the county can get a limited subsidy for housing the inmates, the county says taxpayers still picked up part of the bill.

Cogen says Commissioners have come to believe that the low-level offenders in this group do not belong in the county jail. These suspects were charged with anything from offensive littering to disorderly conduct to giving false information to police.

He notes Multnomah County is so strapped for resources that suspects accused of worse crimes are regularly released because the jail is full - thanks in part to beds reserved for ICE's I-247 detainers.

"I think this is primarily an issue of justice, about doing the right thing, but it definitely has budget implications," Jeff Cogen.

But that is not what you originally said. You said "violent felons" are being released. I said and am still saying that is not true. The only way a violent felon can be released is by very high bail and/or a combination of high bail and electronic monitoring from Close Street Supervision. The only way bail can be reduced from very high to high and electronic monitoring order is via a Bail Reduction Hearing.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

In the Multco jail there are an average of 1250 inmates in custody at all times. There were 42 inmates emergency released last month. Every inmate released was charged with a drug crime, property crime, behavioral or traffic crime. That is per the Multco stats for last month. Those are not dangerous felons. Dangerous felons are not being released in order for illegals to be housed in Multco.

Dangerous felons can not and will not be emergency released.

I think you are trying to change things now by using "dangerous felons" as the term of art.

I've posted a couple of very respectable and high profile public officials saying the exact same thing I am say that you said is "total BS". So now you are dancing trying to say "dangerous felons" will not be forced in order for illegal to be housed in Multco (whatever the fuck that means)

OK, well that isn't what I said what you were calling total BS and whatever your definition of dangerous offender is, fact is that prisoners in jail with worse crimes are being released to hold illegal immigrants with petty crimes. (And what exactly is a dangerous felon. A repeat DUII offender sure is. A hit and run felon sure is. Drug dealers, car thieves . . . dangerous felons in my book.)

Oh and BTW, they the Board of County Commissioners agreed with the sheriff and implemented the new policy. so if those are the prisoners being released under the new policy . . . Houston, we still have a problem.

But whatever man. I can tell by your posts you know something about the topic and trying hard to say something that might stick as you clearly don't understand how the entire process works and don't want to admit it. But hey, you have successfully boiled it down to one arbitrary sentence (that I'm too tired to really take on).

Enjoy the night

 

[The_Lillard_King]

But that is not what you originally said. You said "violent felons" are being released. I said and am still saying that is not true. The only way a violent felon can be released is by very high bail and/or a combination of high bail and electronic monitoring from Close Street Supervision. The only way bail can be reduced from very high to high and electronic monitoring order is via a Bail Reduction Hearing.

God damn it, I got to come back. This is what I said:

I don't know on a national scale, but currently in Multnomah County jail, the feds have asked that anyone suspected of being illegal have a hold placed on them. MultCo has been doing this for years but it has gotten so out of hand that the jail is releasing people charged with a felony, sometimes violent felonies, so that they hold someone arrested for driving without a license because they are here illegally.


So you call that total BS because in your mind, the "sometimes violent felonies", isn't true.

Seem awfully harsh to call an entire post that has accurate information total BS because you disagree with "sometimes violent felonies".

I'm assuming based on the little accurate info you throw out that you are thinking violent felonies means "measure 11" crimes, which is a wrong assumption. There are many violent felonies out there that are not measure 11 crimes.

So we can sit here and argue if crimes are violent or not . . . but you seem to gloss over the point of what my posts says which is the immigration holds are out of control leading to absurd results of bad people being released into the community to keep low level crime illegal immigrants in custody.

And if one considers Robbery III, Assaults, Burglary II, Drug dealers and car thieves (and many more non-measure 11 crimes) violent felonies (which the sentencing guidelines in Oregon do ) . . . then they are releasing people charged with violent crimes from jail to house illegal immigrants.

Alright, I'm done with mess this time . . . really.