Sessions - 3 teams close to an offer

[Mediocre Man]

are we the third?

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60696/20090720/sessions_agent_says_offer_gettin

That would involve KP going after a possition we actually need to upgrade.

Let me know when a PF or SF has offers.

 

[Idog1976]

Of course it is an assumption. 99% of what is discussed on this board is based on opinion/assumption. I don't think Sessions is a good fit. Others disagree. The lack of any offer for him at least makes me feel I'm not completely out of the realm of reality. Portland decided that offering a back-up PF $8 million/per was more important that offering Sessions a similar amount of money.

I just don't think continuing to go down a list to the next available FA is a good way to go about building a title contender. If the front office thought Sessions was a key, I imagine they would have offered him a Hedo- or Millsap-like deal that Milwaukee would never seriously consider matching.

You know I see you constantly say you don't like player X or the front office isn't doing Y right etc. My question is in your esteemed opinion who is the ideal fit at PG for the BLazers. Please don't come back with CP3, Dwill, DRose or Devin Harris. I'm talking remotely feasible to acquire. I'm curious because I get loud and clear that you don't like Sessions or Miller.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Sessions is not the answer for the Blazers. I hope Blazers don't burn their cap space on him.

 

[number 10]

Or if nothing happens, Sessions could just sign the QO and become an UFA next season. There are definitely advantages if Milwaukee locks up Sessions first.

But that's almost certainly not going to happen, at least one team will offer him part of their MLE if not more. If it's less than the full MLE, then the Bucks win. If it's the full MLE, the Bucks get Sessions at the price he probably would've commanded had they offered him an extension July 1st. By waiting, the Bucks have a great chance at keeping him at a lower price.

Otherwise, I was curious about Sessions' career shooting. For his entire career (college + D-League + NBA), he's shooting three pointers at 38/133 = 29%. I know I combined the NBA and college three point lines, but I think it's a somewhat accurate measure of his perimeter shooting at each stage of his career. link

 

[OddEnormous]

KP has an extremely huge Ego.

 

[B-Roy]

But that's almost certainly not going to happen, at least one team will offer him part of their MLE if not more.

That's definitely not a guarantee. If Sessions was offered a contract less than the full MLE, the Bucks would most certainly match. Would you want to tie up your MLE on a futile effort?

 

[number 10]

That's definitely not a guarantee. If Sessions was offered a contract less than the full MLE, the Bucks would most certainly match. Would you want to tie up your MLE on a futile effort?

It's not necessarily futile though. The Bucks just drafted Jennings, who Skiles reportedly is very high on, and signed Ersan Ilyasova, pushing them right towards the luxury tax limit. It's quite possible that their limit for Sessions is below the full MLE.

 

[B-Roy]

It's not necessarily futile though. The Bucks just drafted Jennings, who Skiles reportedly is very high on, and signed Ersan Ilyasova, pushing them right towards the luxury tax limit. It's quite possible that their limit for Sessions is below the full MLE.

Maybe.

It's not like the Bucks haven't done this before. They told Charlie Bell and Mo Williams to go find offers, and they did, and Milwaukee ended up matching both anyways.

I wouldn't trust Jennings as my starting PG though.

 

[Minstrel]

I wouldn't trust Jennings as my starting PG though.

They still have Ridnour, don't they? Skiles seems pretty willing to trust him.

 

[Idog1976]

Maybe.

It's not like the Bucks haven't done this before. They told Charlie Bell and Mo Williams to go find offers, and they did, and Milwaukee ended up matching both anyways.

I wouldn't trust Jennings as my starting PG though.

They also have Ridnour who can start while they bring Jennings along.


Edit: I see that Minstrel, who I often agree with, has already said it. Well let me second it. Lol

 

[PapaG]

At this point is irrelevant unless you actually think no NBA team is going to have him on their team next year. Is it fair to say that Brandon Roy's team is not very interested in him because they haven't resigned him? How about LaMarcus Aldridge? It's the perfect strategy for the Bucks as the teams with cap space are dwindling. If Ramon signs an offer sheet by the Knicks or the Clipps, it'll be for MLE money which would be easily matched on the Bucks end. Don't forget that you're guy, Kirk Hinrich has a PER significantly less than Ramon Sessions and is significantly older.

I didn't say that. I did say that he isn't at the top of teams' lists in terms of an upgrade. Those players have already been offered/signed/or matched. This is obvious at this point.

I also said I don't agree with Hinrich, if you'd actually read my posts. That said, if a move for a PG is made, I'd prefer to see Hinrich over Sessions. I love it when people here make up my position.

 

[PapaG]

It's not necessarily futile though. The Bucks just drafted Jennings, who Skiles reportedly is very high on, and signed Ersan Ilyasova, pushing them right towards the luxury tax limit. It's quite possible that their limit for Sessions is below the full MLE.

Huh. Some posters here want Sessions to be offer more than the MLE.

 

[PapaG]

You know I see you constantly say you don't like player X or the front office isn't doing Y right etc. My question is in your esteemed opinion who is the ideal fit at PG for the BLazers. Please don't come back with CP3, Dwill, DRose or Devin Harris. I'm talking remotely feasible to acquire. I'm curious because I get loud and clear that you don't like Sessions or Miller.

Steve Blake is adequate at this point if replacing him means blowing money on Sessions/Miller. Hinrich might be OK, but I still don't see him shutting down the Pauls, Williams, and Brooks of the West. I thought I've made that quite clear? I'll turn it on you. Outside of Sessions/Miller, who makes the Blazers a much better team next season?

Also, it's not that I don't like Sessions/Miller. I just don't like them for this team/this offense/this defense. They are average PGs, and Sessions has a 22+ usage rate to get his numbers. That won't happen in Portland.

 

[Iwatas]

Sessions and Miller are above average PGs. Sessions could be a VERY good PG - his trajectory could be Devin Harris-like.

iWatas

 

[Minstrel]

They are average PGs, and Sessions has a 22+ usage rate to get his numbers.

You reference his Usage Rate, a component of PER, but ignore the actual PER which shows him (and Miller) to be above average.

Hinrich is average. Sessions and Miller are above average, significantly so. And Sessions will only be 23 this season, which means he has further upside on top of being above average.

 

[hasoos]

I REALLY hope Portland gets some sense and makes a big offer.

I really don't think Sessions, or any other free agents left are due a big offer. The big fish have already been landed. Time to quit fishing and go to the store and get some dinner for the family that is still around. (Sign Roy and Aldridge).

 

[PapaG]

You reference his Usage Rate, a component of PER, but ignore the actual PER which shows him (and Miller) to be above average.
Hinrich is average. Sessions and Miller are above average, significantly so. And Sessions will only be 23 this season, which means he has further upside on top of being above average.

Sessions PER is above average in large part because he had a high usage rate. He won't dominate the ball in Portland. His TS% and eFG% were rather pedestrian last season.

I also am still wondering why Sessions, who is young and "above average", didn't demand a large contract. Could it be because he's a ball hog who can't shoot?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

KP has an extremely huge Ego. Picking bayless 11th and giving up on him for someone that was had in the second round would concede deafeat...

Just dont see it happening....

Now that's an answer I'd expect from a beaer fan who goes to a plce where ther football players have relationships with homo sheep.

 

[hasoos]

Sessions PER is above average in large part because he had a high usage rate. He won't dominate the ball in Portland. His TS% and eFG% were rather pedestrian last season.

I also am still wondering why Sessions, who is young and "above average", didn't demand a large contract. Could it be because he's a ball hog who can't shoot?

Well he is only a restricted free agent, so he isn't making demands. I view Sessions as more like this: He is a 2nd rounder who proved he can play in the league. He hasn't shown he is a star, he hasn't shown he is below average. I am sure that GM's look at him and realize most of them made a mistake, but did they make a mistake of Michael Redd/Gilbert Arenas proportions, or did they make a mistake of Cliff Robinson proportions? That is my question. I lean towards the latter. I think Sessions will be a fine NBA player of middle of the road talent level for many years. He will make it in the league and last because he has the motivation to do so.

 

[PapaG]

Well he is only a restricted free agent, so he isn't making demands. I view Sessions as more like this: He is a 2nd rounder who proved he can play in the league. He hasn't shown he is a star, he hasn't shown he is below average. I am sure that GM's look at him and realize most of them made a mistake, but did they make a mistake of Michael Redd/Gilbert Arenas proportions, or did they make a mistake of Cliff Robinson proportions? That is my question. I lean towards the latter. I think Sessions will be a fine NBA player of middle of the road talent level for many years. He will make it in the league and last because he has the motivation to do so.

Portland already chose Millsap and Hedo over Sessions so far this summer. If Sessions is such a key to the future, why not offer him a "toxic" offer than Milwaukee won't match? As for "demand", I meant his perceived market value, not him personally yelling at teams to give him a lot of money.

 

[Minstrel]

Sessions PER is above average in large part because he had a high usage rate.

He was the point guard on a team without any other play-makers. Of course he had the ball in his hands a lot, who else would? Having the ball in one's hands a lot does not create a high PER. Being good with the ball in one's hands creates a high PER.

I also am still wondering why Sessions, who is young and "above average", didn't demand a large contract. Could it be because he's a ball hog who can't shoot?

Ball hog? His Assist Rate is tremendous. He's a traditional point guard, in that he's pass-first. He scored a lot in Milwaukee because the team had very few weapons (and yet he still managed to rack up assists).

As for his contract, he's got little leverage right now as an RFA. If he wants to become a UFA next year, he has to accept the qualifying offer. Other teams are likely less willing to offer him a contract because they're fairly sure Milwaukee will match.

 

[PapaG]

He was the point guard on a team without any other play-makers. Of course he had the ball in his hands a lot, who else would? Having the ball in one's hands a lot does not create a high PER. Being good with the ball in one's hands creates a high PER.



Ball hog? His Assist Rate is tremendous. He's a traditional point guard, in that he's pass-first. He scored a lot in Milwaukee because the team had very few weapons (and yet he still managed to rack up assists).

As for his contract, he's got little leverage right now as an RFA. If he wants to become a UFA next year, he has to accept the qualifying offer. Other teams are likely less willing to offer him a contract because they're fairly sure Milwaukee will match.

Market value demand, not him demanding a contract. Why didn't his market value demand a large offer for him? Sheesh...so literal. We just discussed yesterday how he is a RFA. I didn't forget that fact overnight.

And yes, I view Sessions as a ball hog in terms of him needing the ball to be effective. Unless the offense is changed for him, there is no room for a ball hog PG who can't shoot. I suspect the Blazers know this, however, which is why he hasn't been made an offer by them.

 

[Minstrel]

Portland already chose Millsap and Hedo over Sessions so far this summer. If Sessions is such a key to the future, why not offer him a "toxic" offer than Milwaukee won't match?

I don't think Sessions is a "key to the future," but he's a young, above average point guard with more upside. For a team without a good point guard, like Portland, that's a pretty nice asset to add, if possible.

Milwaukee is probably more likely to match a Sessions offer than Utah was to match a Millsap offer. Milwaukee cleared space to get under the luxury tax and didn't even tender Villaneuva a qualifying offer. To me, that suggests that Milwaukee wanted breathing room to be able to match on Sessions.

 

[Minstrel]

Market value demand, not him demanding a contract. Why didn't his market value demand a large offer for him? Sheesh...so literal. We just discussed yesterday how he is a RFA. I didn't forget that fact overnight.

I wasn't being literal. His RFA status matters to his market demand, which I addressed in that post. If teams believe that Milwaukee will match their offers, it's a disincentive to offer in the first place. The market is generally weaker for RFAs as compared to UFAs.

And yes, I view Sessions as a ball hog in terms of him needing the ball to be effective.

That makes no sense. Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Magic Johnson were all "ball-hogs?" (And no, before you try to distract, let me head you off at the pass: I am not saying Sessions is a talent on that level. I am comparing them only in styles not talent.) Traditional point guards handle the ball the bulk of the time but they do it to facilitate the offense for the entire team. Creating opportunities for other players doesn't seem like "ball-hoggery" to me at all.

Yes, the offense would need to be changed a bit. I think the team can accommodate a conventional point guard, even if they don't need one to have success. They've used Blake as a designated spot-up shooter out of necessity, not because the team can't use more from a point guard, IMO.

 

[PapaG]

I wasn't being literal. His RFA status matters to his market demand, which I addressed in that post. If teams believe that Milwaukee will match their offers, it's a disincentive to offer in the first place. The market is generally weaker for RFAs as compared to UFAs.

True, but Portland could put together an offer that Milwaukee almost certainly won't match. If Sessions is such a big upgrade over Blake, that seems fairly easy to do. Instead, they persued a back-up PF.

That makes no sense. Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Magic Johnson were all "ball-hogs?" (And no, before you try to distract, let me head you off at the pass: I am not saying Sessions is a talent on that level. I am comparing them only in styles not talent.) Traditional point guards handle the ball the bulk of the time but they do it to facilitate the offense for the entire team. Creating opportunities for other players doesn't seem like "ball-hoggery" to me at all.

The above examples show how being a "ball hog" can be a good thing. Brandon Roy is a ball hog. That's a good thing. Ramon Sessions is a ball hog. I don't think that's a good thing for this offense.

Yes, the offense would need to be changed a bit. I think the team can accommodate a conventional point guard, even if they don't need one to have success. They've used Blake as a designated spot-up shooter out of necessity, not because the team can't use more from a point guard, IMO.

I wouldn't call Sessions a conventional PG. He is a miserable 3 pt shooter. How about a conventional PG who can't shoot? Most conventional-yet-good PGs these days can shoot the ball. He would allow the defense to sag in the middle when he's off of the ball, and he takes the ball out of the team's best player when he has the ball. No thanks. NY seems like a good fit for him. He should do well there; much better than he'd do in Portland.

 

[Minstrel]

True, but Portland could put together an offer that Milwaukee almost certainly won't match. If Sessions is such a big upgrade over Blake, that seems fairly easy to do. Instead, they persued a back-up PF.

I think Millsap is even better player than Sessions (not by a lot, but a bit better), so there's nothing contradictory about that, necessarily. It's perfectly rational to go after the best talent, if you can find a way to optimize that talent later.

The above examples show how being a "ball hog" can be a good thing. Brandon Roy is a ball hog. That's a good thing. Ramon Sessions is a ball hog. I don't think that's a good thing for this offense.

Ah, okay. By "ball hog," you mean someone who dominates the ball. That's fine. I generally mean someone who won't give the ball up to teammates, a selfish player.

I think a ball dominating point guard like Sessions can fit on the Blazers. I think Roy would do well being relieved of some of the distribution duties. I don't think Roy would be worse playing off the ball more, he simply hasn't to date because the team hasn't had any other play-makers.

I wouldn't call Sessions a conventional PG. He is a miserable 3 pt shooter. How about a conventional PG who can't shoot?

By "conventional point guard," I mean a pass-first distributor. Jason Kidd couldn't shoot from the perimeter for most of his career and was definitely a conventional point guard. Sessions, like Miller, can hit mid-range shots and get to the hoop, so has ways to punish teams who sag off him.

 

[PapaG]

I think Millsap is even better player than Sessions (not by a lot, but a bit better), so there's nothing contradictory about that, necessarily. It's perfectly rational to go after the best talent, if you can find a way to optimize that talent later.

Actually, as you slide down your list of players, each drop probably means a player who you don't feel will help you team as much as the player above him. At some point, the list stops. I'm hoping the Blazer list has stopped for Sessions, and Miller for only a small contract.

Ah, okay. By "ball hog," you mean someone who dominates the ball. That's fine. I generally mean someone who won't give the ball up to teammates, a selfish player.

The term ball hog gets a bad rap. It's almost always a pejorative these days, isn't it?

I think a ball dominating point guard like Sessions can fit on the Blazers. I think Roy would do well being relieved of some of the distribution duties. I don't think Roy would be worse playing off the ball more, he simply hasn't to date because the team hasn't had any other play-makers.

Sessions is such a dramatic departure from Blake that I'd feel better if the team "knew" and not "thought" that he'd fit in to the offense. It would take a lot of money to get him away from Milwaukee, so the answer had better be clear cut that he is an immediate upgrade who takes the team to title contender.

By "conventional point guard," I mean a pass-first distributor. Jason Kidd couldn't shoot from the perimeter for most of his career and was definitely a conventional point guard. Sessions, like Miller, can hit mid-range shots and get to the hoop, so has ways to punish teams who sag off him.

Kidd always offset his poor shooting by using his size to dominate opposing PGs in post-up opportunities. Plus, he's certainly a "ball hog" in the sense of needing the ball; now that he's older and plays with a guy who creates his own shot, Kidd has become an effective off-the-ball spot-up shooter. Also, to say Kidd couldn't shoot is somewhat accurate, but Sessions REALLY can't shoot. Kidd is a career 35% shooter from 3 pt range; Sessions shot 17% last season from the same distance.

Also striking to me was Sessions' DRTG. His 2 year numbers: 113, 109. Blake: 112:110.

 

[LittleAlex]

Well he is only a restricted free agent, so he isn't making demands. I view Sessions as more like this: He is a 2nd rounder who proved he can play in the league. He hasn't shown he is a star, he hasn't shown he is below average. I am sure that GM's look at him and realize most of them made a mistake, but did they make a mistake of Michael Redd/Gilbert Arenas proportions, or did they make a mistake of Cliff Robinson proportions? That is my question. I lean towards the latter. I think Sessions will be a fine NBA player of middle of the road talent level for many years. He will make it in the league and last because he has the motivation to do so.

This would make him a major upgrade over Blake, who is one of the worst starting point guards in the NBA.

Going into a season of Blake and Bayless at the point isn't going to be pretty.

 

[hasoos]

This would make him a major upgrade over Blake, who is one of the worst starting point guards in the NBA.

Going into a season of Blake and Bayless at the point isn't going to be pretty.

There is no question he is. But the question is, is Sessions worth the dough, and is he worth the dough now. I pretty much think there is a reason the players left, are still out there. The best value for the dollar is off the table already. The reason these guys are out there, is they want too much for the amount of talent in return.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

"The pursuit of Ramon Sessions(notes) is heating up. Sessions, the Milwaukee Bucks talented young point guard who is a restricted free agent, is drawing intense interest from the New York Knicks and Los Angeles Clippers. What’s more, it isn’t out of the realm of possibilities a third team — NBA officials at the recent NBA Summer League in Las Vegas speculated Oklahoma City — may make a last-minute attempt to land Sessions as well. Officials from the Knicks and Clippers contacted Bucks general manager John Hammond Monday and they discussed Sessions’ situation. Both teams are considering offering Sessions their mid-level exception, which starts at $5.854 million in the first season

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...t=Am2Eei3.4rWcc752byLi5LO8vLYF?urn=nba,177744