SF solution: Vince Carter?

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Rastapopoulos said:
For those paying attention, a guy called Pinnock filled in for Bayless for the final game... and scored 30 points. I wonder if the system they were running sort of helped Bayless pad his stats just a tad?

Also for those paying attention, Bayless played almost exclusively at SHOOTING GUARD. For those paying attention, we have two rather good players ahead of Bayless at that position. I said "almost" because they did actually try Bayless at PG for a bit. It failed disastrously, so they very quickly handed the PG reins back to a more capable point: Koponen.

It really does help to pay attention.
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Was Pinnock named summer league player of the year? No he wasn't. Because Bayless was. Because he was consistent. Secondly, it still says nothing about Koponen struggling. Koponen struggled in the summer league. Flat out. Who cares what Pinnock did. If a player is struggling to make it in summer league, then playing in the NBA is surely a reach. Give him 4 years, see where he is at.
 
hasoos said:
Holy crap you are willing to put the future of the franchise, in the hands of Koponen after what you have seen this far over Bayless? You have severely gone off the deep end IMO. In case you weren't paying attention, Bayless was averaging like 30 points a game in the same league where Koponen was struggling to show he even belonged there.
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Where did I say I was willing to put the future of the franchise in Koponen's hands.

First off, I'm not saying that Koponen progressed nearly to the point that Bayless has, only that like Bayless was, he's potentially good prospect. That's it.

Secondly, Bayless and Petteri are completely two different guards. One is a combo guard and the other a playmaker. Playmakers generally struggle in summer league, at least from my perspective.

Third, Petteri didn't have the experience yet that Bayless had. They're at two different stages in their career.

Fourth, you've gone severely off the deep end. Way to jump to conclusions.
 
Crimson the Cat said:
Where did I say I was willing to put the future of the franchise in Koponen's hands.

First off, I'm not saying that Koponen progressed nearly to the point that Bayless has, only that like Bayless was, he's potentially good prospect. That's it.

Secondly, Bayless and Petteri are completely two different guards. One is a combo guard and the other a playmaker. Playmakers generally struggle in summer league, at least from my perspective.

Third, Petteri didn't have the experience yet that Bayless had. They're at two different stages in their career.

Fourth, you've gone severely off the deep end. Way to jump to conclusions.
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It's moot. If Bayless goes, it means we're getting a quality guard in return. Kop won't have a chance in Portland.
 
hasoos said:
Was Pinnock named summer league player of the year? No he wasn't. Because Bayless was. Because he was consistent. Secondly, it still says nothing about Koponen struggling. Koponen struggled in the summer league. Flat out. Who cares what Pinnock did. If a player is struggling to make it in summer league, then playing in the NBA is surely a reach. Give him 4 years, see where he is at.
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Mr. Batum should be all the evidence you need to understand that summer league struggles do not necessarily equate to NBA mediocrity.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
In all honesty, I'd probably be willing to offer this, and I'd still expect to get turned down.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...95&teams=22~22~22~22~17~17~17~17~17&te=&cash=
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Yes you would ... Harris is turning into one of the most untradeable players in the league, he's at least a top ten point guard and there's an argument he could even be top 5 (if you squint and tilt your head just right). It would take at least Brandon Roy, LaMarcus or Greg to prise him away; because that would be close to fair value for a young rising star at a very difficult position to fill in the NBA
 
The more I look at Quick's statement the less I believe he is on to something. I do believe we are searching for the "right piece" but it has got to be a very selective search, especially coming from KP's past statements.

If Carter could be had for cheap (Raef, Trout and picks) and we are looking for a PG upgrade as well I could conceivably see us paying Toronto a visit in a 3-team trade involving Calderon. I know this hasn't been addressed yet, but it seems like Harris is more or less untouchable at this point.
 
maxiep said:
Here's the deal I would offer if I were KP.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...~3025&teams=22~22~22~22~17~17~17~17&te=&cash=

It would also include our 2009 1st round pick. Raef is a HUGE savings for this team. They would absolutely suck and therefore be in a good position to pick up one of the really good PGs coming out this year.
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I figured I'd get in on the hysteria because it's just so much fun around this time of year!

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...6~615&teams=22~28~28~28~28~28~22~17&te=&cash=

I would also add in Portland's picks to sweeten the deal for either or both teams.
 
Okay, I'm going to try to be mildly realistic. I'm sure I'll still fail, but this is an attempt not to actually rip off trade partners, on the belief that they're not going to do rip-off deals. This is a two deal scenario.

First:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...15~136~2382&teams=17~17~17~17~22~22&te=&cash=

Second:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...3025~1717~2772&teams=18~18~18~22~22&te=&cash=

This is predicated on New York preferring cap space to David Lee and having a little interest in Sergio Rodriguez. We swap Lee for Rodriguez and take Jeffries (a complete waste of money) off their hands to make up for Lee being a lot better than Sergio.

Final roster:

PG: Devin Harris / Steve Blake
SG: Brandon Roy / Rudy Fernandez
SF: Vince Carter / Nicolas Batum / Martell Webster
PF: David Lee / Shavlik Randolph
C: Greg Oden / Joel Przybilla

Shame to lose Aldridge, of course, and backup power forward would obviously need to be fixed (it's a problem as is), but I think that balances out the roster nicely. Vince Carter is the only player who doesn't fit long-term and we have Batum to take over down the road.
 
Minstrel said:
Okay, I'm going to try to be mildly realistic. I'm sure I'll still fail, but this is an attempt not to actually rip off trade partners, on the belief that they're not going to do rip-off deals. This is a two deal scenario.

First:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...15~136~2382&teams=17~17~17~17~22~22&te=&cash=

Second:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...3025~1717~2772&teams=18~18~18~22~22&te=&cash=

This is predicated on New York preferring cap space to David Lee and having a little interest in Sergio Rodriguez. We swap Lee for Rodriguez and take Jeffries (a complete waste of money) off their hands to make up for Lee being a lot better than Sergio.

Final roster:

PG: Devin Harris / Steve Blake
SG: Brandon Roy / Rudy Fernandez
SF: Vince Carter / Nicolas Batum / Martell Webster
PF: David Lee / Shavlik Randolph
C: Greg Oden / Joel Przybilla

Shame to lose Aldridge, of course, and backup power forward would obviously need to be fixed (it's a problem as is), but I think that balances out the roster nicely. Vince Carter is the only player who doesn't fit long-term and we have Batum to take over down the road.
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Hmm.... I'd have to think long and hard about that trade.

On the one hand, you get Harris, who is a stud.

On the other, you're losing Aldridge, who is really close to being an All-Star caliber power forward.

Does a team with Harris, Roy, Carter, Lee, and Oden win a championship in the next two or three years? Is it better long term than a team of Bayless, Roy, Batum, Aldridge, and Oden? I think Aldridge compliments Oden much, much better than Lee would.

I think you try to get Carter, leave Harris out of it, and let Bayless start. The team isn't going to be as good this season, but next year or the following year they're going to be just as good I think.
 
Minstrel said:
Okay, I'm going to try to be mildly realistic. I'm sure I'll still fail, but this is an attempt not to actually rip off trade partners, on the belief that they're not going to do rip-off deals. This is a two deal scenario.

First:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...15~136~2382&teams=17~17~17~17~22~22&te=&cash=

Second:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...3025~1717~2772&teams=18~18~18~22~22&te=&cash=

This is predicated on New York preferring cap space to David Lee and having a little interest in Sergio Rodriguez. We swap Lee for Rodriguez and take Jeffries (a complete waste of money) off their hands to make up for Lee being a lot better than Sergio.

Final roster:

PG: Devin Harris / Steve Blake
SG: Brandon Roy / Rudy Fernandez
SF: Vince Carter / Nicolas Batum / Martell Webster
PF: David Lee / Shavlik Randolph
C: Greg Oden / Joel Przybilla

Shame to lose Aldridge, of course, and backup power forward would obviously need to be fixed (it's a problem as is), but I think that balances out the roster nicely. Vince Carter is the only player who doesn't fit long-term and we have Batum to take over down the road.
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KP is looking to add 1 or 2 key pieces to the team, not overhaul it at the deadline.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Hmm.... I'd have to think long and hard about that trade.

On the one hand, you get Harris, who is a stud.

On the other, you're losing Aldridge, who is really close to being an All-Star caliber power forward.

Does a team with Harris, Roy, Carter, Lee, and Oden win a championship in the next two or three years? Is it better long term than a team of Bayless, Roy, Batum, Aldridge, and Oden? I think Aldridge compliments Oden much, much better than Lee would.

I think you try to get Carter, leave Harris out of it, and let Bayless start. The team isn't going to be as good this season, but next year or the following year they're going to be just as good I think.
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My feeling is that a future starting lineup of Harris, Roy, Batum, Lee and Oden is likely to be as good as a future starting lineup of Bayless, Roy, Batum, Aldridge and Oden.

Meanwhile, for this year and the next few, a starting lineup of Harris, Roy, Carter, Lee and Oden is markedly better than Blake/Bayless, Roy, Batum, Aldridge and Oden. Harris is a big upgrade on Blake and the current Bayless and Carter is a huge upgrade on the current Batum.
 
free_lafrentz said:
KP is looking to add 1 or 2 key pieces to the team, not overhaul it at the deadline.
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I have no idea what Pritchard wants to do, I only know what posters and columnists think he wants to do.

I was just trying to think through a reasonable trade or set of trades that would allow the team to go for it in the present while still preserving their great long-term future.
 
Minstrel said:
I have no idea what Pritchard wants to do, I only know what posters and columnists think he wants to do.

I was just trying to think through a reasonable trade or set of trades that would allow the team to go for it in the present while still preserving their great long-term future.
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I'm pretty sure trading away half the team at the deadline isn't very reasonable. But I applaud the effort. I would say it's reasonable to assess Portland's situation and conclude they are looking to add 1 or 2 vet pieces, likely at the PG and SF, maybe the PF. It's mostly common sense, really.
 
Minstrel said:
My feeling is that a future starting lineup of Harris, Roy, Batum, Lee and Oden is likely to be as good as a future starting lineup of Bayless, Roy, Batum, Aldridge and Oden.

Meanwhile, for this year and the next few, a starting lineup of Harris, Roy, Carter, Lee and Oden is markedly better than Blake/Bayless, Roy, Batum, Aldridge and Oden. Harris is a big upgrade on Blake and the current Bayless and Carter is a huge upgrade on the current Batum.
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I agree Minstrel, I'm just not sure...... so would you trade Aldridge for Harris straight up? That's really the sticking point for me. I hate to give up Aldridge. I think Harris is the best version of Bayless. If Bayless matures into the current incarnation of Devin Harris, I would be psyched. I just think that Aldridge/Oden is a championship combo.
 
free_lafrentz said:
I'm pretty sure trading away half the team at the deadline isn't very reasonable.
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I meant reasonable in terms of fairness. Deals that are close to reasonable for both teams and help Portland.

As far as "half the team," you're technically right but definitely overstating the point...no one considers Frye, Diogu or LaFrentz particularly significant members of the team. Rodriguez has his admirers, but is pretty unproductive. It's perfectly reasonable to say that Portland is exchanging two key members (Aldridge and Outlaw) and one key prospect (Bayless). 3 significant players (only 1 of them a starter) is a lot to move, but not really that crazy.
 
Minstrel said:
3 significant players (only 1 of them a starter) is a lot to move, but not really that crazy.
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Especially when you're keeping your eye on next year, or the year after that. Does anyone really think we have a shot at winning a title this season?
 
hoojacks said:
Let's see how Martell looks when he comes back
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I don't think it's so much how Martell looks when he comes back, so much as how Martell looks towards the end of the season and next preseason. He's going to be so rusty and out of shape. I don't expect to see the real Martell any time soon.
 
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