Sharpe vs Other Rookies

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STOMP said:
oh the horror, at 18 he's only KD sized (and a lot more athletic).

Any decent medical staff can project what sort of weight a young man's frame will carry. But "great" job Neil, way to safely draft the crafty/undersized shooting guard instead who went to college 4 years.

STOMP
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I think people forget things really quickly because there is no such thing as a lot more athletic than KD. I know it was 15 years ago when we were introduced to him but that dude was one of the most athletically gifted people at his size, ever... guys like Giannis and maybe AD and Simmons could be seen as a little more athletic than KD but a lot, no way.
 
blazedanugz said:
a good friend of mine works for the knicks..we should be happy Randle isn’t in our locker room
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I hear you. But it might be worth it to take that risk. I think Dame would be able to handle him.

We're going to have to take that risk on some players to get where we want to go.

I'm not saying that we should have traded the pick. Just that we'd likely have a significantly better record if we had traded it to NY for Randle and 11.

Dame, Hart, Grant, Randle, Nurk is a hell of a tough lineup. And draft Duren or Williams at 11 and you have a hell of a tough bench.

Maybe Sharpe's future is worth it. I'm certainly excited to find out. Seems like a solid gamble.
 
Hoopguru said:
giannis_workout_130801_6.jpg
he He was almost 19 when he entered the NBA.
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I owe someone a final game. @Tince is that you? I cant find the history now, or dont have the patience to look further. Lol.
Im officially eating crow. Haven't given up on him. Just not gonna excel as fast as i had predicted.
 
BlazerBender said:
I owe someone a final game. @Tince is that you? I cant find the history now, or dont have the patience to look further. Lol.
Im officially eating crow. Haven't given up on him. Just not gonna excel as fast as i had predicted.
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You're a true man of integrity... Take a friend in replace of me; I'm boring!
 
Natebishop3 said:
I don't even know if it was that.... I think Neil was a good evaluator of talent, but a bad chemistry person, so he would become fixated on a player regardless of fit. Taking CJ right after drafting Dame, or trading up to get Collins when we clearly needed more veteran players and not a raw rookie big man.
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wizenheimer said:
he drafted CJ 2 years before the Warriors won their 1st championship. It was simply a case of Olshey falling madly in love with a player during the draft process and no amount of obvious reality was ever going to budge him away from his ego-driven belief that CJ was an elite player and that a 6'3 wing would work in the NBA. Blind, stubborn, and stupid is a bad combo for a GM
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My timeline was off. Thanks for correcting me.
 
blazerkor said:
I think people forget things really quickly because there is no such thing as a lot more athletic than KD. I know it was 15 years ago when we were introduced to him but that dude was one of the most athletically gifted people at his size, ever... guys like Giannis and maybe AD and Simmons could be seen as a little more athletic than KD but a lot, no way.
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Since the day he hit the league Giannis has clearly been a better run jump athlete then KD and more importantly, consistently pushes those athletic advantages out running and out jumping everyone else. KD is much more prone to relying on his unblockable money J which sets up his glides to the hoop. I think some posters are consistently ridiculous trying to make a counter point.

STOMP
 
Voodoo said:
We need an update on this thread, anyone willing to paste the stats of the rookies vs Sharpe so far through the year?
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Yes I’m willing, but will NOT do it.
 
Rookie EPM Ranks (900+ mpg) - EPM (Off/Def) * Probably the most well respected public all-in-one metric across NBA front offices.

1) Walker Kessler: +2.2 (+.6 / +1.6)
2) Tari Eason: 0 (-1.4 / +1.4)
3) Jalen Williams: 0 (-.8 / +.8)
4) Keegan Murray: -.7 (0 / -.7)
5) Paolo Banchero: -.9 (-.6 / -.3)
6) AJ Griffin: -1.2 (-.8 / -.4)
7) Jalen Duren: -1.5 (-1.2 / -.3)
8) Jeremy Sochan: -1.5 (-1.3 / -.3)
9) Dyson Daniels: -2 (-4.2 / +2)
10) Ben Mathurin: -2.2 (-1.5 / -.7)
11) Jabari Smith Jr.: -2.9 (-2.1 / -.7)
12) David Roddy: - 3.3 (-3.1 / -.2)
13) Malaki Branham: -4.2 (-2.4 / -1.8)
14) Shaedon Sharpe: -4.3 (-2.5 / -1.8)
15) Jaden Ivey: -4.6 (-1.5 / -3.1)
16) Christain Braun: -5 (-3.6 / -1.4)

So one of the worst big minute rookies, but he's been trending up the last couple weeks. Was floating around -6 for a while.
 
JDC said:
Rookie EPM Ranks (900+ mpg) - EPM (Off/Def) * Probably the most well respected public all-in-one metric across NBA front offices.

1) Walker Kessler: +2.2 (+.6 / +1.6)
2) Tari Eason: 0 (-1.4 / +1.4)
3) Jalen Williams: 0 (-.8 / +.8)
4) Keegan Murray: -.7 (0 / -.7)
5) Paolo Banchero: -.9 (-.6 / -.3)
6) AJ Griffin: -1.2 (-.8 / -.4)
7) Jalen Duren: -1.5 (-1.2 / -.3)
8) Jeremy Sochan: -1.5 (-1.3 / -.3)
9) Dyson Daniels: -2 (-4.2 / +2)
10) Ben Mathurin: -2.2 (-1.5 / -.7)
11) Jabari Smith Jr.: -2.9 (-2.1 / -.7)
12) David Roddy: - 3.3 (-3.1 / -.2)
13) Malaki Branham: -4.2 (-2.4 / -1.8)
14) Shaedon Sharpe: -4.3 (-2.5 / -1.8)
15) Jaden Ivey: -4.6 (-1.5 / -3.1)
16) Christain Braun: -5 (-3.6 / -1.4)

So one of the worst big minute rookies, but he's been trending up the last couple weeks. Was floating around -6 for a while.
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Yeah, the fact is that a bunch of those guys are getting a lot more minutes and a lot more usage in those minutes than Shae... in the case of Murray and Williams it's really impressive because they are on teams that are having success and they're a big part of that success but a handful of these guys like Paolo are just the most talented guys on their teams and therefore are getting far more opportunities both to succeed and get experience than Shaedon has.
 
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Given that all of the guys ahead of him are older and more experienced, I don't think it's surprising that Shaedon has been a bit slower to develop as a player. I have zero concern that he's not going to develop into a significant player as he gets more experience.
 
JDC said:
Rookie EPM Ranks (900+ mpg) - EPM (Off/Def) * Probably the most well respected public all-in-one metric across NBA front offices.

1) Walker Kessler: +2.2 (+.6 / +1.6)
2) Tari Eason: 0 (-1.4 / +1.4)
3) Jalen Williams: 0 (-.8 / +.8)
4) Keegan Murray: -.7 (0 / -.7)
5) Paolo Banchero: -.9 (-.6 / -.3)
6) AJ Griffin: -1.2 (-.8 / -.4)
7) Jalen Duren: -1.5 (-1.2 / -.3)
8) Jeremy Sochan: -1.5 (-1.3 / -.3)
9) Dyson Daniels: -2 (-4.2 / +2)
10) Ben Mathurin: -2.2 (-1.5 / -.7)
11) Jabari Smith Jr.: -2.9 (-2.1 / -.7)
12) David Roddy: - 3.3 (-3.1 / -.2)
13) Malaki Branham: -4.2 (-2.4 / -1.8)
14) Shaedon Sharpe: -4.3 (-2.5 / -1.8)
15) Jaden Ivey: -4.6 (-1.5 / -3.1)
16) Christain Braun: -5 (-3.6 / -1.4)

So one of the worst big minute rookies, but he's been trending up the last couple weeks. Was floating around -6 for a while.
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Ivey seems like a real bust.
 
JDC said:
Rookie EPM Ranks (900+ mpg) - EPM (Off/Def) * Probably the most well respected public all-in-one metric across NBA front offices.

1) Walker Kessler: +2.2 (+.6 / +1.6)
2) Tari Eason: 0 (-1.4 / +1.4)
3) Jalen Williams: 0 (-.8 / +.8)
4) Keegan Murray: -.7 (0 / -.7)
5) Paolo Banchero: -.9 (-.6 / -.3)
6) AJ Griffin: -1.2 (-.8 / -.4)
7) Jalen Duren: -1.5 (-1.2 / -.3)
8) Jeremy Sochan: -1.5 (-1.3 / -.3)
9) Dyson Daniels: -2 (-4.2 / +2)
10) Ben Mathurin: -2.2 (-1.5 / -.7)
11) Jabari Smith Jr.: -2.9 (-2.1 / -.7)
12) David Roddy: - 3.3 (-3.1 / -.2)
13) Malaki Branham: -4.2 (-2.4 / -1.8)
14) Shaedon Sharpe: -4.3 (-2.5 / -1.8)
15) Jaden Ivey: -4.6 (-1.5 / -3.1)
16) Christain Braun: -5 (-3.6 / -1.4)

So one of the worst big minute rookies, but he's been trending up the last couple weeks. Was floating around -6 for a while.
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Thanks!
 
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STOMP said:
oh the horror, at 18 he's only KD sized (and a lot more athletic).

Any decent medical staff can project what sort of weight a young man's frame will carry. But "great" job Neil, way to safely draft the crafty/undersized shooting guard instead who went to college 4 years.

STOMP
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Half the league whiffed on Giannis.
That wasn’t an “Olshey” thing.
 
JDC said:
Rookie EPM Ranks (900+ mpg) - EPM (Off/Def) * Probably the most well respected public all-in-one metric across NBA front offices.

So one of the worst big-minute rookies, but he's been trending up the last couple weeks. Was floating around -6 for a while.
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Thank you for posting this. Interesting ranking for sure. However, for me, it just further shows how useless metrics can be in determining who is better. I look at that list and other than Banchero there is not one of them I would trade Sharpe for. Not that SS is definitely better than all of them, but he is certainly as good as all of them.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Thank you for posting this. Interesting ranking for sure. However, for me, it just further shows how useless metrics can be in determining who is better. I look at that list and other than Banchero there is not one of them I would trade Sharpe for. Not that SS is definitely better than all of them, but he is certainly as good as all of them.
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Metrics are pretty solid given equal opportunity.

Other than that they are just loose guide rails

Still very interesting.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Thank you for posting this. Interesting ranking for sure. However, for me, it just further shows how useless metrics can be in determining who is better. I look at that list and other than Banchero there is not one of them I would trade Sharpe for. Not that SS is definitely better than all of them, but he is certainly as good as all of them.
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Value long-term we'll see, but as far as who's been better this year, I think it's a fairly accurate representation.

Big thing you got to keep in mind with these metrics though is that they are better used to compare players in similar roles. Team quality can muck these numbers up a little too, but I know EPM does as good a job as any of them trying to adjust for that.
 
Last edited:
Whick rookie/s available at #7

a) is/are having a better rookie year than Shaedon?
b) has shown to have better potential than Shaedon?

Go!
 
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