Shooting at Umpqua Community College: 10 dead

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I'm saying that they have the strictest gun restrictions, yet they are the most violent and deadly city in the US.

The state of Louisiana arguably has the nation's weakest regulations when it comes to gun ownership, yet they consistently have the highest rates of gun violence/murders per capita than any other state.
 
Well it all started when Obama used this tragedy for his pursuit to ban guns.
No, it all started when you brought your politics into a thread that allows us to express our grief, sadness and outrage. Obama had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH IT!!!! Christ Mags, next we'll hear about how Trump would have stopped the massacre before it started. It's a tragedy and all the political posturing in the world isn't going to erase it. It's what we do next that counts.
 
Well it all started when Obama used this tradgity for his pursuit to ban guns.

If you support felons not being able to own guns then you support some gun control and some people being banned from owning them. This odd hysteria that Obama is suddenly going to take everyone's guns away is not accurate and does not do anything to help the situation.

We have tighter control over who buys and sells cars then we do guns. We can and should do better.

And in a related note, this did not get enough national attention:

Father of Marysville school shooter convicted of gun charges

The father of the teen who killed four classmates at Marysville-Pilchuck High School last fall was convicted Tuesday of illegally possessing a half-dozen firearms, including the one his son used in the shooting.


Raymond Lee Fryberg Jr. was convicted of six counts of unlawful possession of a firearm. One of the firearms, a .40-caliber Beretta pistol, was used by 15-year-old Jaylen Fryberg to kill four classmates and wound a fifth. Jaylen then killed himself with the same handgun.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ille-school-shooter-convicted-of-gun-charges/
 
Like Coke or meth... That shit is really hard to get man!

You have a really difficult time just carrying on a normal conversation. Jesus.

Those items are currently illegal. So I see no relevance to the discussion. But if you just want to continue with stupid unrelated one liners, then carry on. Thanks for the reminder of why I hardly make my way to the OT forums.
 
No, it all started when you brought your politics into a thread that allows us to express our grief, sadness and outrage. Obama had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH IT!!!! Christ Mags, next we'll hear about how Trump would have stopped the massacre before it started. It's a tragedy and all the political posturing in the world isn't going to erase it. It's what we do next that counts.
Didn't talk about Trump. I talked about Obama using tragedy to push his agenda.
 
You have a really difficult time just carrying on a normal conversation. Jesus.

Those items are currently illegal. So I see no relevance to the discussion. But if you just want to continue with stupid unrelated one liners, then carry on. Thanks for the reminder of why I hardly make my way to the OT forums.
Isn't illegal to have a gun that isn't registered?
 
If you support felons not being able to own guns then you support some gun control and some people being banned from owning them. This odd hysteria that Obama is suddenly going to take everyone's guns away is not accurate and does not do anything to help the situation.

We have tighter control over who buys and sells cars then we do guns. We can and should do better.

And in a related note, this did not get enough national attention:

Father of Marysville school shooter convicted of gun charges

The father of the teen who killed four classmates at Marysville-Pilchuck High School last fall was convicted Tuesday of illegally possessing a half-dozen firearms, including the one his son used in the shooting.


Raymond Lee Fryberg Jr. was convicted of six counts of unlawful possession of a firearm. One of the firearms, a .40-caliber Beretta pistol, was used by 15-year-old Jaylen Fryberg to kill four classmates and wound a fifth. Jaylen then killed himself with the same handgun.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ille-school-shooter-convicted-of-gun-charges/

Okay, so like what... I'm so tired of people saying we need more gun control, but I've yet to see a real plan.
 
What agenda? He's been in office 7 years, my rights as a gun owner has not changed due to any federal laws or regulations.
He's been pleading to make federal regulations for gun control. Doesn't matter if they haven't had a something offered. He's stating it publicly.
 
Okay, so like what... I'm so tired of people saying we need more gun control, but I've yet to see a real plan.

Records of completed firearms sales and records of background checks of prospective firearms purchasers are critical tools for law enforcement. Through crime gun tracing, records of completed firearm sales can identify the last retail purchaser of a firearm that may have subsequently been used in a violent crime, and thus can lead to the identification and prosecution of violent criminals.1 These records are most useful to law enforcement when they are collected in a central database and retained indefinitely, as they are under some of the state laws described below. Records of background checks of prospective firearms purchasers help law enforcement deter fraud and detect dealers who might be providing false information about the purchaser of a firearm.
Firearm Sales Records: Federal law requires licensed firearms dealers to maintain records of gun sales indefinitely, including information about the firearm(s) being purchased, as well as the purchaser.2 Federal law prohibits the federal government from collecting firearm sales records in a central repository, however. Without a central repository of all firearm sales records, gun tracing is a slow, cumbersome process.

  • As described in a report from the Government Accountability Office, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (ATF) “must take a number of steps to trace a crime gun, including, as applicable, contacting the importer, manufacturer, and wholesaler of the firearm in order to identify the … retailer who sold the firearm to the first retail purchaser.”3
  • A 2010 report by the Washington Post found that a gun tracing investigation by ATF often involves making phone calls and poring over handwritten paperwork.4
  • According to a 2013 report from the Center for American Progress, this “antiquated and inefficient system” means that “a firearms trace can take days, or even weeks, thereby frustrating criminal investigations.”5
Centralized records of gun ownership would greatly increase the efficiency of the tracing process. These records would also help law enforcement retrieve firearms from persons who have become legally prohibited from possessing them, and could be used to alert law enforcement to the presence of guns at a private residence when they are responding to an emergency call.

In order for law enforcement to have complete information about gun ownership, however, Congress would need to close the private sale loophole, which allows guns to be sold by individuals who are not licensed firearms dealers. As detailed in our summary on Universal Background Checks & the Private Sale Loophole, unlicensed, private sellers may legally sell guns under federal law and are not required to maintain any records. As a result, collecting sales information from dealers falls short of a complete repository, except in jurisdictions that require private, unlicensed sellers to conduct transfers through licensed dealers. In a 2007 report, the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) found that the absence of a recordkeeping requirement for private sales means that guns sold through such sales “become more difficult to trace if lost, stolen or criminally misused, making crimes involving them more difficult to solve.”6

http://smartgunlaws.org/maintaining-gun-sales-background-check-records-policy-summary/
 
People make it into a political argument within seconds of hearing about it. I understand you're upset, and I feel horrible that this happened, but this is a discussion forum. If we didn't discuss the who, the what, the where, the when, and the why, what else would we discuss? The thread would say, "shooting at Umpqua CC" and then there would be a handful of posts saying that it was a tragic event and that would be it. We come here to vent, to discuss the issues, and to find out information. I apologize if it sounds crass, or cold, but that's what we do here. We talk politics. We talk current events.
I understand all of that. And that is what makes the off topic forum work. I have just spent my entire day texting friends and family to find out if they are still alive. I have been crying for most of the day. This shouldn't turn in to politics so quickly.
 
Since the enactment of the Brady law on March 1, 1994, through December 31, 2012, background checks blocked more than 2.4 million prohibited purchasers like domestic abusers, convicted felons, mentally ill persons, and other dangerous individuals from purchasing a firearm or receiving a permit to purchase or carry a firearm.1

In 2012 alone, background checks blocked 192,043 prohibited persons from gaining access to firearms,2 including 82,000 felons or roughly 225 felons every day.3

Statistics reported by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence confirm that background checks work and have had a significant positive impact on national crime rates. Before the Brady law was enacted, America’s gun homicide rate was on a dramatic rise, increasing by 55 percent from 1984 to 1993 even as non-gun homicides were falling over this period.4 After Brady background checks were required, however, gun murders began to steadily decline and ultimately fell by 32 percent from 1993 to 2006.5 The rate of robberies and aggravated assaults committed with firearms also decreased by 42 percent over this period.6

However, the Brady law only requires background checks by federally licensed firearms dealers. Research has found that states with more expansive background check laws experience 48 percent less gun trafficking, 38 percent fewer deaths of women shot by intimate partners, and 17 percent fewer firearms involved in aggravated assaults.7 States with universal background check requirements also have a 53 percent lower gun suicide rate, and a 31 percent lower overall suicide rate than states without these laws.8 This correlation is unchanged even after controlling for the effects of poverty, population density, age, education, and race/ethnicity.9 After controlling for these variables, universal background checks were associated with 22% fewer suicides and 35% fewer firearm suicides per capita.10

One state has also provided a tragic case study in the importance of background checks in preventing gun violence and saving lives. In 2007, Missouri repealed its permit-to-purchase handgun licensing law, which had, since 1921, required all handgun purchasers to undergo a background check and obtain a license in order to lawfully purchase a handgun from any seller. This change eliminated mandatory background checks for handguns sold by private sellers in the state. Johns Hopkins researchers determined that repeal of Missouri’s background check requirement was linked to a 14% increase in Missouri’s murder rate through 2012 and a 25% percent increase in firearm homicide rates.11 These researchers estimated that in tragic human terms, the law’s repeal translated into an additional 49 to 68 murders every year.12 This spike in murders in Missouri only occurred for murders committed with a firearm and was widespread across the state’s counties.13 Meanwhile, none of the states bordering Missouri experienced significant increases in their murder rates, and the national murder rate actually declined during this period by over five percent.14 Other researchers confirmed that repeal of Missouri’s background check requirement was associated with a 16.1% increase in the state’s rate of firearm suicide.15

Another state offers a sharp contrast with Missouri. In 1995, Connecticut implemented a permit-to-purchase handgun licensing law which required applicants to pass a background check in order to purchase a handgun from any seller. Researchers from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health published a study in the American Journal of Public Health in June 2015 in which they reported that Connecticut’s law was associated with a 40 percent reduction in the state’s firearm-related homicide rate.16 These researchers compared Connecticut’s homicide rates during the 10 years following the law’s implementation to the rates that would have been expected had the law not been implemented. The large drop in homicides was found only in firearm-related killings, not in homicides by other means, confirming that this law drove the reduction in the state’s overall homicide rates.17 Additionally, other researchers found that Connecticut’s Permit to Purchase handgun law was associated with a 15.4% reduction in firearm suicides.

http://smartgunlaws.org/category/effectiveness-of-gun-laws/
 
Yeah sly, but you do realize this guy was 20 years old, so he didn't have these guns legally. So now what?
 
Since the enactment of the Brady law on March 1, 1994, through December 31, 2012, background checks blocked more than 2.4 million prohibited purchasers like domestic abusers, convicted felons, mentally ill persons, and other dangerous individuals from purchasing a firearm or receiving a permit to purchase or carry a firearm.1

In 2012 alone, background checks blocked 192,043 prohibited persons from gaining access to firearms,2 including 82,000 felons or roughly 225 felons every day.3

Statistics reported by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence confirm that background checks work and have had a significant positive impact on national crime rates. Before the Brady law was enacted, America’s gun homicide rate was on a dramatic rise, increasing by 55 percent from 1984 to 1993 even as non-gun homicides were falling over this period.4 After Brady background checks were required, however, gun murders began to steadily decline and ultimately fell by 32 percent from 1993 to 2006.5 The rate of robberies and aggravated assaults committed with firearms also decreased by 42 percent over this period.6

However, the Brady law only requires background checks by federally licensed firearms dealers. Research has found that states with more expansive background check laws experience 48 percent less gun trafficking, 38 percent fewer deaths of women shot by intimate partners, and 17 percent fewer firearms involved in aggravated assaults.7 States with universal background check requirements also have a 53 percent lower gun suicide rate, and a 31 percent lower overall suicide rate than states without these laws.8 This correlation is unchanged even after controlling for the effects of poverty, population density, age, education, and race/ethnicity.9 After controlling for these variables, universal background checks were associated with 22% fewer suicides and 35% fewer firearm suicides per capita.10

One state has also provided a tragic case study in the importance of background checks in preventing gun violence and saving lives. In 2007, Missouri repealed its permit-to-purchase handgun licensing law, which had, since 1921, required all handgun purchasers to undergo a background check and obtain a license in order to lawfully purchase a handgun from any seller. This change eliminated mandatory background checks for handguns sold by private sellers in the state. Johns Hopkins researchers determined that repeal of Missouri’s background check requirement was linked to a 14% increase in Missouri’s murder rate through 2012 and a 25% percent increase in firearm homicide rates.11 These researchers estimated that in tragic human terms, the law’s repeal translated into an additional 49 to 68 murders every year.12 This spike in murders in Missouri only occurred for murders committed with a firearm and was widespread across the state’s counties.13 Meanwhile, none of the states bordering Missouri experienced significant increases in their murder rates, and the national murder rate actually declined during this period by over five percent.14 Other researchers confirmed that repeal of Missouri’s background check requirement was associated with a 16.1% increase in the state’s rate of firearm suicide.15

Another state offers a sharp contrast with Missouri. In 1995, Connecticut implemented a permit-to-purchase handgun licensing law which required applicants to pass a background check in order to purchase a handgun from any seller. Researchers from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health published a study in the American Journal of Public Health in June 2015 in which they reported that Connecticut’s law was associated with a 40 percent reduction in the state’s firearm-related homicide rate.16 These researchers compared Connecticut’s homicide rates during the 10 years following the law’s implementation to the rates that would have been expected had the law not been implemented. The large drop in homicides was found only in firearm-related killings, not in homicides by other means, confirming that this law drove the reduction in the state’s overall homicide rates.17 Additionally, other researchers found that Connecticut’s Permit to Purchase handgun law was associated with a 15.4% reduction in firearm suicides.

http://smartgunlaws.org/category/effectiveness-of-gun-laws/

Proof that gun laws do save lives.
 
To take a senseless killing and make it about your fear of losing your weapons is just about as self centered as a person could be. To blame our president for the senseless killing is about as unpatriotic and insensitive as a person could be.
 
To take a senseless killing and make it about your fear of losing your weapons is just about as self centered as a person could be. To blame our president for the senseless killing is about as unpatriotic and insensitive as a person could be.
Here! Here!!! How dare our president do the same! I'll stop when our president stops
 
You really are an obtuse and oblivious son of a gun, aren't you? YOU are using Obama (and the tragedy) to push YOUR agenda. Stay on point......
My agenda? I could give a fuck less about it because there ain't shut Obama or anyone else can do because this is the right of Americans. I'm just sick of Obama doing the very same shit to push HIS agenda.
 
Records of completed firearms sales and records of background checks of prospective firearms purchasers are critical tools for law enforcement. Through crime gun tracing, records of completed firearm sales can identify the last retail purchaser of a firearm that may have subsequently been used in a violent crime, and thus can lead to the identification and prosecution of violent criminals.1 These records are most useful to law enforcement when they are collected in a central database and retained indefinitely, as they are under some of the state laws described below. Records of background checks of prospective firearms purchasers help law enforcement deter fraud and detect dealers who might be providing false information about the purchaser of a firearm.
Firearm Sales Records: Federal law requires licensed firearms dealers to maintain records of gun sales indefinitely, including information about the firearm(s) being purchased, as well as the purchaser.2 Federal law prohibits the federal government from collecting firearm sales records in a central repository, however. Without a central repository of all firearm sales records, gun tracing is a slow, cumbersome process.

  • As described in a report from the Government Accountability Office, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (ATF) “must take a number of steps to trace a crime gun, including, as applicable, contacting the importer, manufacturer, and wholesaler of the firearm in order to identify the … retailer who sold the firearm to the first retail purchaser.”3
  • A 2010 report by the Washington Post found that a gun tracing investigation by ATF often involves making phone calls and poring over handwritten paperwork.4
  • According to a 2013 report from the Center for American Progress, this “antiquated and inefficient system” means that “a firearms trace can take days, or even weeks, thereby frustrating criminal investigations.”5
Centralized records of gun ownership would greatly increase the efficiency of the tracing process. These records would also help law enforcement retrieve firearms from persons who have become legally prohibited from possessing them, and could be used to alert law enforcement to the presence of guns at a private residence when they are responding to an emergency call.

In order for law enforcement to have complete information about gun ownership, however, Congress would need to close the private sale loophole, which allows guns to be sold by individuals who are not licensed firearms dealers. As detailed in our summary on Universal Background Checks & the Private Sale Loophole, unlicensed, private sellers may legally sell guns under federal law and are not required to maintain any records. As a result, collecting sales information from dealers falls short of a complete repository, except in jurisdictions that require private, unlicensed sellers to conduct transfers through licensed dealers. In a 2007 report, the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) found that the absence of a recordkeeping requirement for private sales means that guns sold through such sales “become more difficult to trace if lost, stolen or criminally misused, making crimes involving them more difficult to solve.”6

http://smartgunlaws.org/maintaining-gun-sales-background-check-records-policy-summary/

How does this in any way, shape, or form prevent the school shootings that have happened in recent memory? The Clackamas Town Center guy stole his friend's AR-15. The Reynolds High School shooter stole his brother's AR-15. This kid today supposedly had 3 handguns, yet he was only 20 years old. Not one of those three shootings were people who legally acquired the weapon. Two of them were with weapons that were legally acquired by an adult and then stolen by a child. Having a registry would not prevent any of that from happening.

I am not in favor of a registry. Not at all. Not in any way, shape, or form.

I am, however, in favor of a required class to purchase and own a firearm. It's a required step to acquire a CHL, and I think all owners should have to go through that class. From that point, if you attempt to purchase a gun without the certification, you will be denied. If you are caught in public with a firearm and without a certification, you will be charged and fined. If you lend your weapon to a friend/family member who does not possess a certification, and they are caught, you will be charged and fined. That's what I would propose. Force people to go through a class on safety and proper ownership.

We already have background checks. We already have laws about gun shows. They don't work. They haven't stopped any of these shootings. Registering the guns would have a similar effect. We need to start holding the original owners accountable (if they're still alive) and we need to make people actually exert some effort in order to buy and own a gun.
 
We know for sure he didn't get the hand guns legally because it's illegal for him to own a handgun without being 21.

Yup, exactly. So he either stole them, or someone purchased them for him illegally.
 

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