Should Neil be on the hot seat? (1 Viewer)

[Sinobas]

If LA bolts and there is no s&t?

Last summer LaMarcus demanded a trade, Chicago being his #1 option, but Neil talked him off the ledge. He took a giant risk with LA heading into unrestricted free agency.

More teams would've jumped into that race, a nice package could've been had.

I wanted to sign and trade just to get him off the team and get something in return, but I can't really blame a GM for not pre-emptively trading away every player before they become a FA. At some point, you have to retain your key guys.

 

[Sinobas]

I think Portland should try to build a deep team, and not over pay people.

 

[Tunchi]

Naw. Neil didnt do anything wrong. LMA said quote on quote "im waiting till next summer to sign" so you take that and trust him. LMA is the one to blame when he leaves. He straight up lied to us and the organization. Hella fucked up

 

[Minstrel]

Injuries aren't something you plan for. Our current predicament was Neil's plan from the beginning. He set up all the contracts of new players he brought in to expire this summer. He didn't try to extend Matthews or Rolo. This was his plan. This was his baby. If it fails, it was his doing. I'm not saying it's going to fail, and I like that he's swinging for the fences to actually get us out of this rut, but I wouldn't compare it to Roy/Oden. This was his plan and if it fails, he should be the one who takes the heat.

But it's also worth noting that he built a dark horse contender this past season, until the injuries killed the team. I can't fault him for the plan, when it was exploded by injuries that couldn't have been foreseen. If the Blazers were coming off, say, a WCF run with a healthy Matthews to extend, an Aldridge who wanted to stay after such a successful season, as well as cap flexibility, Olshey would be hailed as a genius.

Until a GM has built up a long track record, I think it's more important to judge him based on the process, rather than the results. Results are, of course, the bottom line and the end appraisal but, until you have a large enough set of data points, results can also be heavily skewed by luck, good or bad. Right now, I'd focus on the quality of his demonstrated thinking rather than whether this particular plan succeeded or failed. Given a few more years and another plan or two, if those fail too, judging him by results would be perfectly fair, IMO. For now, I think he's made overall smart decisions based on the information at the time and that should buy him those few more seasons.

 

[BlazerWookee]

If LA bolts and there is no s&t?

Last summer LaMarcus demanded a trade, Chicago being his #1 option, but Neil talked him off the ledge. He took a giant risk with LA heading into unrestricted free agency.

More teams would've jumped into that race, a nice package could've been had.

HE DIDN'T DEMAND A TRADE! FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

All he said was that if we were going to rebuild, he'd rather go somewhere else!

 

[Darkwebs]

Being a GM is a constant hot seat, by nature.

Especially in Portland.

 

[The Professional Fan]

Every thing changed when Wes got injured. I think we'd be looking at a vastly different offseason had he stayed healthy. So in that regard, no - Neil should not be on the hot seat. Nor should he be on the hot seat if LA leaves. Neil has roster flexibility by design. Let's just see what he does with it before we bring out the pitchforks. As far as I'm concerned, in Neil I still trust.

 

[Strenuus]

Why would he be on the hot seat?

If LA leaves, it sounds like he lied about it to the organization. I don't think anyone can fault Olshey for that. I still think if Wes doesn't rupture his Achilles, we're at least in the second round of the playoffs again. Again, can't fault Neil for that. In fact, if there was one guy you could count on to be on the court....

Neil has started this offseason off with two very shrewd, solid deals. Moving on from LA or retooling, Olshey has gotten the process off on a positive note.

/thread

 

[OneLifeToLive]

His limiting beliefs has stymied him to this point as the General Manager of the Portland Trail Blazers. Probably something that wasn't there in Los Angeles.

 

[PCmor7]

No.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

HE DIDN'T DEMAND A TRADE! FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

All he said was that if we were going to rebuild, he'd rather go somewhere else!

Your language!

Watch your fucking language!

 

[Draco]

No.

Neil has been the most impressive GM I've ever seen running the Blazers. It took years to find one that Paul Allen got along with. But Neil is far more than a Paul puppet. His moves all have made sense and more often than not look smarter when we view them again later on down the road. I enjoy the culture he instills in the basketball operations and the types of players he's acquired. No GM is going to make all great decisions; when we have the benefit of perfect hindsight you can find endless things they've all done wrong. But from what was known about the team at the time he's usually made very good choices. The roster has tons of flexibility and youth; and was right there with a chance to win a number of months ago. That is an extremely rare difficult feat in professional sports. Only one team can win a title so if that is the main metric you use to criticize a GM 96.6% of GM's will look bad.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Neil is smart enough to know that you can't lose your franchise cornerstone without compensation.

I hope he pursues a s&t for a young building block.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

He is absolutely on the hot seat, but he shouldn't be.
It's not his fault that LMA is a jealous child.
It's not his fault that Batum destroys his body by playing all year around.
It's not his fault that Wes is out of touch with reality.
Of course, as mentioned above, the injuries are not his fault, either.

Right now, we have young talented players ready to step into starting roles on tiny contracts. Really the only downside of our current state is that our future draft picks are gone.

 

[BrianFromWA]

He should be on the hot seat. He let an all-star go to UFA. Perhaps the gamble on his wooing skills will pay off and we'll get LMA back and some kinda-SuperFriends to go with it. In that case, no hot seat for a while, and he can both give those who put him on the hot seat the middle finger while receiving his due accolades.

If LMA leaves, I imagine it's going to be hard to recover that trust with PA.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Every thing changed when Wes got injured. I think we'd be looking at a vastly different offseason had he stayed healthy. So in that regard, no - Neil should not be on the hot seat. Nor should he be on the hot seat if LA leaves. Neil has roster flexibility by design. Let's just see what he does with it before we bring out the pitchforks. As far as I'm concerned, in Neil I still trust.

If everything changed so much just because Wes went down, This team must not have been as tight as everyone thought they were.

 

[BlazerWookee]

T-shirt? I have that tattooed on my butt.

Right next to the one that says, "

If everything changed so much just because Wes went down, This team must not have been as tight as everyone thought they were.

Chemistry matters. If you take one component out of the mix, replace it with another, and expect to get the same results, you're simply not very smart.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Right next to the one that says, "

Chemistry matters. If you take one component out of the mix, replace it with another, and expect to get the same results, you're simply not very smart.

Huh?

 

[BlazerWookee]

Huh?

Di... Di... Di....iiiiid I stutter?

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

2013 was the year to trade him.

And here we are, LA is \.../ this close to joining a conference rival.

BUT....

Neil is smart, when LA bolts I expect a big move that comes out of left field.

 

[BlazerWookee]

2013 was the year to trade him.

And here we are, LA is \.../ this close to joining a conference rival.

BUT....

Neil is smart, when LA bolts I expect a big move that comes out of left field.

You misspelled "not even close."

Just sayin'.

 

[The Professional Fan]

If everything changed so much just because Wes went down, This team must not have been as tight as everyone thought they were.

I'm not talking chemistry. I'm talking expectations. Lots of dominos fell after that injury with regard to expectations within the locker room starting with LMA.

 

[oldmangrouch]

He gets paid to be on the hot seat.

A FA leaves that much money on the table rather than play for your team? At the least, he and Stotts need to do some soul searching.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

In the last decade how many franchise guys in their prime bolted their team?

Melo - hinted that he wanted out and Denver made NY grab their ankles - a ton of picks and Gallinari, who was an up and coming player at the time.

Love - They cashed in and knew Love was impatient. They also got a nice haul with the #1 pick.

Dwight - multiple picks with a young up and coming center in Vucevic, who has turned out to be a borderlime franchise guy.

LMA - Wanted out in 2013 -- Neil talked him off the ledge. This was a huge risk and even riskier when LA declined the extension last summer.

If he bolts this team is losing a franchise guy in his prime for nothing other than cap space.

 

[Schilly]

I absolutely don't think Neil should be on the hot seat. Olshey has had one directive to date, convince Lamarcus to stay. We heard rumblings 2 years ago that Lamarcus asked for a trade. He has busted his ass to do everything Lamarcus wanted. Paul Allen knows this. Now it looks like that work was for naught. At least let the man do his job completely without some Prima Donna in the way. If the retooling goes ugly after next summer then maybe we talk about hot seat, but seriously Neil has gone a damn good job to date.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I absolutely don't think Neil should be on the hot seat. Olshey has had one directive to date, convince Lamarcus to stay. We heard rumblings 2 years ago that Lamarcus asked for a trade. He has busted his ass to do everything Lamarcus wanted. Paul Allen knows this. Now it looks like that work was for naught. At least let the man do his job completely without some Prima Donna in the way. If the retooling goes ugly after next summer then maybe we talk about hot seat, but seriously Neil has gone a damn good job to date.

To me, that's a really good point. People are upset that Neil didn't trade LA before he could leave us at the altar. But if Paul was unwilling to sign off on any potential LA deal, how would that be Neil's fault?

And even if he were given latitude, we were a contender all season until Wed went down. You don't trade a franchise player when in your in the middle of a potential title run.

It continues to amaze me how big an impact Wes' achilles injury has had and continues to have on this franchise. Had that not occurred, the past three months would have been completely different. But somehow, that's Neil's fault? Silly...

 

[BrianFromWA]

In the last decade how many franchise guys in their prime bolted their team?

Melo - hinted that he wanted out and Denver made NY grab their ankles - a ton of picks and Gallinari, who was an up and coming player at the time.

Love - They cashed in and knew Love was impatient. They also got a nice haul with the #1 pick.

Dwight - multiple picks with a young up and coming center in Vucevic, who has turned out to be a borderlime franchise guy.

LMA - Wanted out in 2013 -- Neil talked him off the ledge. This was a huge risk and even riskier when LA declined the extension last summer.

If he bolts this team is losing a franchise guy in his prime for nothing other than cap space.

Bump from July 2013 and why I said you never let an All-Star get to UFA. I was holding back until it was positive he was gone, but since you asked.


All-Stars and what their teams got for them up to when they reached UFA:
Bottom line up front:
3 of 38 signed as UFAs with the team they were with going into UFA: Wade, Parker, Joe Johnson.
3 of 38 signed extensions before they went to UFA: Z-bo, Gasol, Jameer
7 of 38 were traded immediately prior to UFA, whether forced or not: Deron, Melo, Howard, Marion, CP3, Deng, Harris
1 of 38 was a UFA S&T (Lee)
2 of 38 retired as UFAs (Yao, Wally)
24 of 38 left for nothing but cap space and/or 2nds/trade exceptions (everyone else)

So, going back to the 1999 draft (only a 6 year+ sample size), less than 10% of UFAs who make it to UFA sign with their old team. Another 10% sign extensions (which can now only happen in last year of the deal). 5 were traded (6 if you count Lee's S&T) so the old team got something for them. But 23 of 36 All-Stars who hit FA gave their old team nothing in return but maybe a 2nd rounder and trade exception/cap space.

2005: (0/4 with original team. 2 forced trades before UFA, 1 will leave for nothing, 1 left via UFA S&T)
Deron (not with UTH--forced trade before UFA)
CP3 (not with NOH--forced trade before UFA)
Bynum (not with LAL--traded before UFA. PHI will probably lose him via UFA for nothing)
Lee (not with NYK--left via UFA S&T)

2004: (1 of 5 still with team, Harris still not UFA. 2 traded, 1 left for nothing)
Howard (not with ORL--demanded trade before UFA)
Harris (not with DAL--traded for Jason Kidd while on rookie deal. Traded for Deron before UFA)
Deng (not with CHI--traded to CLE for Bynum, 2 2nds, 1 1st and a swapped first)
Iguodala (not with PHI--left DEN via UFA for nothing)
Jameer (still with ORL--signed extension)

2003: (1 for 8--and the only one is Wade. Mo still isn't UFA. 1 traded, 5 left for nothing )
LeBron (not with CLE--left in UFA for nothing)
Melo (not with DEN--demanded trade)
Wade (with MIA--resigned with Superfriends)
Bosh (not with TOR--left in UFA for nothing)
Kaman (not with LAC--traded before UFA then left NOH for nothing )
West (not with NOH--left as UFA for nothing)
Howard (not with DAL--traded before UFA and left WAS via UFA for nothing)
Mo Williams (not with UTH--traded for Kyrie's draft pick)

2002 (0/3, though Yao probably would have re-signed. 3 left for nothing)
Yao (retired before UFA)
Amare(not with PHX--left via UFA for nothing)
Butler (not with MIA--traded for Shaq on rookie deal. Left DAL for nothing)
Boozer (not with CLE--left via cheati-I mean, UFA)

2001: (2/7 resigned. 2 signed extensions before UFA, 3 left for nothing)
Chandler (not with CHI--traded after signing post-rookie extension. Left DAL via UFA)
Gasol (not with MEM--traded before UFA, signed extension)
Joe Johnson (resigned with ATL as UFA)
Z-Bo (not with POR--traded, signed extension before UFA)
Parker (still with Spurs)
Okur (not with Pistons--Left via UFA)
Arenas (not with GSW--left via UFA)

2000: (0/3. All three left for nothing)
K-Mart (not with NJN--S&Td after rookie contract. Left for China via UFA)
Magloire( not with CHA--traded before UFA. Left POR via UFA)
Redd (not with MIL--left via UFA)

1999: (1 demanded trade. 6 left for nothing. 1 retired, for nothing.)
Brand (not with CHI--traded on rookie deal. Left LAC via UFA for nothing)
Franchise (not with VAN--traded before UFA. Left NYK via UFA for nothing)
Baron (not with CHA--traded before UFA. Left GSW via UFA for nothing)
Wally World (not with MIN--traded before UFA. Retired while UFA)
Rip (not with WAS--traded before UFA. Left via waivers for nothing)
Marion (not with PHX--demanded trade before UFA.)
Artest (not with CHI--traded before UFA. Left HOU via UFA for nothing)
Kirilenko (not with UTH--demanded trade, but left for nothing)

 

[Denny Crane]

He should be on the hot seat. He let an all-star go to UFA. Perhaps the gamble on his wooing skills will pay off and we'll get LMA back and some kinda-SuperFriends to go with it. In that case, no hot seat for a while, and he can both give those who put him on the hot seat the middle finger while receiving his due accolades.

If LMA leaves, I imagine it's going to be hard to recover that trust with PA.

How did he "let" LMA become a UFA?

 

[Schilly]

How did he "let" LMA become a UFA?

He didn't trade him on the risk he might leave.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Agreed.

Not dealing him when he first asked was a HUGE risk.

Consider the small market sigma - not dealing him in 2013 is a framchise changing move/mistake.

Of course, he could still re-sign but that's not looking likely.