Should Neil be on the hot seat?

[ripcityboy]

I just don't know... I could see a Thibs rotation be this (with the current roster) :

Dame (38) / CJ (10)
Hendo (34) / CJ (14)
Aminu (38) / Connaughton (10)
Davis (30) / Nards (18)
Kaman (28) / Plums (20)

CJ at both guard spots? Guess we are throwing defense out the window, hunh?

 

[noknobs]

Sorry this is long but I haven't posted all day...

When healthy, I loved the starting five we had more than any team since the Drexler/Porter/Duck/Buck/Kersey era. That said, when players play well they demand bigger contracts, simple supply and demand. And with three of them becoming free agents this off-season it seemed inevitable that we couldn't keep everyone. We all knew change was coming, just not how much.

I don't feel good about giving a guy $15m/yr after an achilles injury, even if he was my favorite player. And as much as I loved him, I don't think it would have been smart to bring Lopez back at $13m/yr. We're not going to compete this year and we already have a bunch of young bigs with potential. They saw the warning signs with Batum leaving, and after last year, I suppose it was time to trade him and get something in return. I like Blake, but he and Afflalo didn't exactly set the world afire last year.

So it comes down to Aldridge. I know some on here warned he was leaving a year in advance (congrats, you're so special), and even more are now playing Monday morning quarterback. And although the warning signs were clearly there, I think it's unfair to assume it was a foregone conclusion. If there's even a chance of keeping him, and I believe that Aldridge led him to believe there was (at least until it was too late to trade him), I can't blame Olshey for holding out hope. He's the 2nd best PF in the world.

So I don't get this Olshey hate. The difference between us, and say the Clippers, is that even though we swung and missed with resigning a star, and even after losing 80% percent of our starting five, we're actually in decent shape going forward. We've got an all-star, a lot of young talent, not a single bad contract, a lot of tradable assets, and still almost $30 million in cap room to take on contracts. This is not going to be our final roster.

I know emotions are high, and it sucks to rebuild, but at the end of the day what are we really rebuilding from?

We're rebuilding from an inconsistent wing, another wing coming off an achilles injury, a likable but average center, and a star who didn't want to be here and who had a ton of baggage. Like Quick's article said, now we don't need to deal with his insecurities, his jealousy, or his pettiness any longer.

We're rebuilding from a single playoff series win, and the guy who won it is still here. I loved the team, but it's not like we're dismantling a dynasty. And given the reasons I just listed I don't think this will necessarily be a prolonged rebuild anyway.

 

[ant]

Sorry this is long but I haven't posted all day...

When healthy, I loved the starting five we had more than any team since the Drexler/Porter/Duck/Buck/Kersey era. That said, when players play well they demand bigger contracts, simple supply and demand. And with three of them becoming free agents this off-season it seemed inevitable that we couldn't keep everyone. We all knew change was coming, just not how much.

I don't feel good about giving a guy $15m/yr after an achilles injury, even if he was my favorite player. And as much as I loved him, I don't think it would have been smart to bring Lopez back at $13m/yr. We're not going to compete this year and we already have a bunch of young bigs with potential. They saw the warning signs with Batum leaving, and after last year, I suppose it was time to trade him and get something in return. I like Blake, but he and Afflalo didn't exactly set the world afire last year.

So it comes down to Aldridge. I know some on here warned he was leaving a year in advance (congrats, you're so special), and even more are now playing Monday morning quarterback. And although the warning signs were clearly there, I think it's unfair to assume it was a foregone conclusion. If there's even a chance of keeping him, and I believe that Aldridge led him to believe there was (at least until it was too late to trade him), I can't blame Olshey for holding out hope. He's the 2nd best PF in the world.

So I don't get this Olshey hate. The difference between us, and say the Clippers, is that even though we swung and missed with resigning a star, and even after losing 80% percent of our starting five, we're actually in decent shape going forward. We've got an all-star, a lot of young talent, not a single bad contract, a lot of tradable assets, and still almost $30 million in cap room to take on contracts. This is not going to be our final roster.

I know emotions are high, and it sucks to rebuild, but at the end of the day what are we really rebuilding from?

We're rebuilding from an inconsistent wing, another wing coming off an achilles injury, a likable but average center, and a star who didn't want to be here and who had a ton of baggage. Like Quick's article said, now we don't need to deal with his insecurities, his jealousy, or his pettiness any longer.

We're rebuilding from a single playoff series win, and the guy who won it is still here. I loved the team, but it's not like we're dismantling a dynasty. And given the reasons I just listed I don't think this will necessarily be a prolonged rebuild anyway.

These are my thoughts. We kept our most important piece, and now we have enough flexibility and assets to rebuild a team that fits around him.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Neil is getting ripped to shreds on twitter and various non-blazer nba forums.

He has a lot of PR work to do.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Truth of matter is LaMarcus wanted out of Portland for a while and #Blazers knew it, no matter how they tried to spin it. It was inevitable.>>>>>>

Neil 'John Nash' Olshey.

Or, the truth of the matter is that Olshey has known for the past two years that LA should be traded, but Paul felt it premature to do it during the summer of 2013, and then when we became a playoff team once Rolo came in, he would have been eviscerated by the fans of he had traded LA. Think about it: at what point between November 2013 and February 2015 could he have traded LA without the majority of the fan base calling for his head on a platter?

LA put Neil in a no win situation with his comments about wanting a five year deal and wanting to be the best Blazer ever. Everyone knew Dwight was leaving, and the team sucked, so the few fans they had left were OK with the trade. The same is true with Kevin Love. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Carmelo Anthony: they all made it very clear to the fans, the media, and the rest of the world that they wanted out, and there was zero chance of them coming back. The situations are not analogous to ours, because this was a contender until Wes went down, and LA had given indication that re-signing was a strong possibility.

If you want Neil fired for not being omniscient and clairvoyant, then you will never be happy with anyone in that GM position.

 

[Cippy91]

I honestly thought Lamarcus was staying up until a couple days before the draft when those reports came out. I felt in his exit interview he wasn't set on leaving. He referred to some things in past tense but when he said things like "it's been a great 9 years here and lf
Course I wouldn't want that to end" and "when the time comes me. My agent, Neil, and Paul will sit down and figure it out.". I was confident he was staying. It kinda was pretty rare. Two 50 win seasons, when has a player ever left after that? But yeah, those rumors and nic being traded started to make me question it all.

 

[TBpup]

So if Neil had tried to keep everyone with what they signed new contracts for, the Salary Cap for the Blazers would look something like this:

Aldridge - 19.8
Matthews 15.0
Lopez - - - 14.0
Batum - - -11.9
Afflalo - - - 8.0
Kaman - - -5.0
Lillard - - - 4.2
Leonard - -3.1
McCollum 2.5
Blake - - - 2,1
Crabbe - - 0.9
Frazier - - 0.9
Wright - - 5.0*
Gee - - - --2.3*
Total - - $105.6

The last two salaries are approximate assumptions of what those players might bet but you get the idea. That is so far over the cap and into the luxury tax and would be the highest team salary in the NBA.....and I don't think that team wins a title.

 

[Cippy91]

We will always be bitter about LMA but this is the bright side. We can build guys as well as have proven guys. Look what happened when cj and Meyers got more playing time. They blossomed. Took a couple years but they got better and gained confidence. There was a time where we thought Meyers was garbage, fouling out in seconds and lacked confidence with any playing time. Dude shot 40 percent from three as a seven footer and is athletic and can still get better defensively and offensively. That's a scary dude.

 

[Denny Crane]

Only issue with Thibs is that he sticks to the more veteran players. Idk what he'd do in a situation like ours.

He plays his best players. There's a difference.

He's also misunderstood to be a defensive coach. I think his offenses are intricate and well designed for his personnel. He's gone from an offense with Rose basically dominating the ball with Luol Deng his second option to one with Noah as point center and DJ Augustin as his only good offensive player to twin towers with Gasol and Noah. Given the opportunity to start a defensive oriented Taj Gibson, he started the offensive oriented Carlos Boozer - the whole time he was on the roster.

Through it all, he's made guys like Augustin and Nate Robinson look way better than they really are. He groomed Jimmy Butler from the #30 pick in the draft into one of the best 2-way players in the league. Noah became DPOY, all NBA, and got votes for MVP. Pau Gasol had what some would argue is his best season last year in Thibs' schemes (and he's awful on defense). Taj Gibson's offensive game grew to the point he's a very good two-way player. Rose became MVP in Thibs' first season.

What he'd do in Portland is play the better offensive guys, and have the team playing defense all the time. Boozer was just awful on defense but yet the Bulls manages to be one of the top 1-3 teams on defense playing him and 33 year old Mike Dunleavy. Lillard is basically in the same spot Rose was when Thibs became coach, maybe he'd take a big step up (he's already impressive!).

At the very least, Thibs can win by grit alone. I used to post in the Bulls forum that he can win with girls, and he has the record and poor rosters to prove it.

That said, you have a coach in Stotts who's also been very good. I can see sticking with him because he can also win and for reasons of loyalty.

 

[Sinobas]

So if Neil had tried to keep everyone with what they signed new contracts for, the Salary Cap for the Blazers would look something like this:

Aldridge - 19.8
Matthews 15.0
Lopez - - - 14.0
Batum - - -11.9
Afflalo - - - 8.0
Kaman - - -5.0
Lillard - - - 4.2
Leonard - -3.1
McCollum 2.5
Blake - - - 2,1
Crabbe - - 0.9
Frazier - - 0.9
Wright - - 5.0*
Gee - - - --2.3*
Total - - $105.6

The last two salaries are approximate assumptions of what those players might bet but you get the idea. That is so far over the cap and into the luxury tax and would be the highest team salary in the NBA.....and I don't think that team wins a title.

They were ridiculously over-paid.

 

[Sinobas]

I just don't know... I could see a Thibs rotation be this (with the current roster) :

Dame (38) / CJ (10)
Hendo (34) / CJ (14)
Aminu (38) / Connaughton (10)
Davis (30) / Nards (18)
Kaman (28) / Plums (20)

You think Aminu will start at SF? He's not a good shooter or perimeter defender, he's more suited for PF. We don't really have a SF on this roster right now. I hope we re-sign Gee and pick up someone else.

 

[TBpup]

They were ridiculously over-paid.

Of course they were but if that is what the market is, it would have taken close to that to bring them back...hence the $100M+ salary schedule.

 

[Sinobas]

Maybe Paul did not want to go into luxury tax for a 1st round exit team. I think it's smart to be the team that gets players on the upswing, before they demand huge contracts. That way you have cap space to work with to add a piece if the opportunity comes. It's the desparate teams that go out every year and over-pay.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

LA put Neil in a no win situation with his comments about wanting a five year deal and wanting to be the best Blazer ever. Everyone knew Dwight was leaving, and the team sucked, so the few fans they had left were OK with the trade. The same is true with Kevin Love. Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Carmelo Anthony: they all made it very clear to the fans, the media, and the rest of the world that they wanted out, and there was zero chance of them coming back. The situations are not analogous to ours, because this was a contender until Wes went down, and LA had given indication that re-signing was a strong possibility.

If you want Neil fired for not being omniscient and clairvoyant, then you will never be happy with anyone in that GM position.

The comments in question were made in an interview published July 8th, 2014. In the article Aldridge was quoted, saying:

"I'm happy to stay, happy to be here, happy with the direction the team has gone the last year or two... This has no impact on my interest in staying in Portland. I just want to get a five-year deal. I feel like that's the best decision on my part."

Aldridge's statements went well beyond the financial:

"I want to be the best Blazer — ever. If I stay the rest of my career, I should be able to catch Clyde by then. I should be able to leave a mark on a big-time franchise that is going to be seen forever. And I will be able to say I played here my whole career. This city has embraced me and grown with me. I have so much history, it just makes sense to stay."

"This was not the situation," the source tells Blazer's Edge. "Olshey wanted Aldridge to sign an extension badly. Aldridge was reluctant. He was not sure he wanted to play in Portland and he told Olshey he wouldn't extend. Olshey knew it would look bad and wouldn't help Aldridge, the team, or his own image. He asked Aldridge to call Freeman and tell him those things to keep the pressure off. This was premeditated, set up by Neil."

http://www.blazersedge.com/2015/7/4...agent-news-neil-olshey-portland-trail-blazers


NO has been a mixed bag so far. He was sold as being a GM who could lure players to Ptd. He couldn't lure Hawes or the player he went after the year before. Didn't convince LA to stay nor lure Monore or any other big name and the exciting summer where we had lots of cap space he got T-Rob and Lopez. When you look past the well grooming smooth talk person, he is an average GM at best.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

The comments in question were made in an interview published July 8th, 2014. In the article Aldridge was quoted, saying:

"I'm happy to stay, happy to be here, happy with the direction the team has gone the last year or two... This has no impact on my interest in staying in Portland. I just want to get a five-year deal. I feel like that's the best decision on my part."

Aldridge's statements went well beyond the financial:

"I want to be the best Blazer — ever. If I stay the rest of my career, I should be able to catch Clyde by then. I should be able to leave a mark on a big-time franchise that is going to be seen forever. And I will be able to say I played here my whole career. This city has embraced me and grown with me. I have so much history, it just makes sense to stay."

"This was not the situation," the source tells Blazer's Edge. "Olshey wanted Aldridge to sign an extension badly. Aldridge was reluctant. He was not sure he wanted to play in Portland and he told Olshey he wouldn't extend. Olshey knew it would look bad and wouldn't help Aldridge, the team, or his own image. He asked Aldridge to call Freeman and tell him those things to keep the pressure off. This was premeditated, set up by Neil."

http://www.blazersedge.com/2015/7/4...agent-news-neil-olshey-portland-trail-blazers


NO has been a mixed bag so far. He was sold as being a GM who could lure players to Ptd. He couldn't lure Hawes or the player he went after the year before. Didn't convince LA to stay nor lure Monore or any other big name and the exciting summer where we had lots of cap space he got T-Rob and Lopez. When you look past the well grooming smooth talk person, he is an average GM at best.

"Average at best" GMs don't build a contender in one off-season with nothing but cap space and second round picks.

"Average at best" GMs don't turn mercurial, overpaid, uninvested wings into top 10 picks with loads of potential.

"Average at best" GMs aren't able to build a roster that somehow makes sense both with or without the all-star that may or may not return.

"Average at Best" GMs don't encounter a free agency catastrophe and instantly rebuild a team in an exciting new image.

Matthews' injury had a greater impact on the season results and LA's free agency than anything Neil or any other GM could have done. I understand that you're disappointed in the way the past few days have turned out, but to definitively evaluate Neil as "average at best" is simply ignorant.

 

[cmeese47]

"Average at best" GMs don't build a contender in one off-season with nothing but cap space and second round picks.

"Average at best" GMs don't turn mercurial, overpaid, uninvested wings into top 10 picks with loads of potential.

"Average at best" GMs aren't able to build a roster that somehow makes sense both with or without the all-star that may or may not return.

"Average at Best" GMs don't encounter a free agency catastrophe and instantly rebuild a team in an exciting new image.

Matthews' injury had a greater impact on the season results and LA's free agency than anything Neil or any other GM could have done. I understand that you're disappointed in the way the past few days have turned out, but to definitively evaluate Neil as "average at best" is simply ignorant.

Yah he has been clearly below average, Fuck Olshey and the plan he rode in on.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Neil is getting ripped to shreds on twitter and various non-blazer nba forums.

He has a lot of PR work to do.

Bullshit; he doesn't have jack to do from a PR perspective. How long did John Nash stick around while being "We just signed Chuck Person, Juan Dixon, and Steve Blake" bad? Olshey's a fucking wizard compared to him.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

"Average at best" GMs don't build a contender in one off-season with nothing but cap space and second round picks.

"Average at best" GMs don't turn mercurial, overpaid, uninvested wings into top 10 picks with loads of potential.

"Average at best" GMs aren't able to build a roster that somehow makes sense both with or without the all-star that may or may not return.

"Average at Best" GMs don't encounter a free agency catastrophe and instantly rebuild a team in an exciting new image.

Matthews' injury had a greater impact on the season results and LA's free agency than anything Neil or any other GM could have done. I understand that you're disappointed in the way the past few days have turned out, but to definitively evaluate Neil as "average at best" is simply ignorant.

ignorant huh . .. you twist facts as smoothly as Olshey and then call me ignorant. First Olshey didn't build a contender, He added Lillard and Lopez to an already existing roster of LA, Matthews and Nico. Second, making it to the second round is hardly what most would consider a contender. The team was not deep and never reallt=y a threat to contend for the title .. . but hey saying NO built a contender in one off-season sounds great.

Nic was the starting SF on the "contender" team and some consider the best starting 5 in the NBA. He gets traded for a 19 yr old player with 25 games under his belt averaging 3.3 pts and 3.4 rebounds a game

If NO didn't know LA was leaving he was the only one. Kim Hughes knew LA wasn't coming back . . . and really so did NO which is why he starting trading proven vets for young player with potential

A good GM might have done something with LA before it turned into a catastrophe . . . exciting new image? Nothing exciting about the lottery to me.

Sound like you are buying all the BS Olshey is shoveling . . . and you call me ignorant?

 

[barfo]

If NO didn't know LA was leaving he was the only one. Kim Hughes knew LA wasn't coming back . . . and really so did NO which is why he starting trading proven vets for young player with potential

A good GM might have done something with LA before it turned into a catastrophe . . . exciting new image? Nothing exciting about the lottery to me.

It's not possible to trade an unrestricted free agent after the February trading deadline. Matthews didn't time his injury very well, if he'd done it in January Neil might have been able to trade LMA.

barfo