Should the Blazers resign Zach Collins?

[BBert]

It’s like the Dance Dance Revolution saga - only worse

Drink Drunk Revolution?

 

[MickZagger]

This is awful. So much potential wasted. This day of age it makes me think some shitty surgeons. How can this not be corrected?

 

[Chris Craig]

This is awful. So much potential wasted. This day of age it makes me think some shitty surgeons. How can this not be corrected?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Kanter can’t be traded until December and wouldn’t take a one year contact here. Do people not understand the value of $7.3 million expiring contract for a capped out team that needs to improve?

How many potential deals are to be missed waiting until Kanter can be traded, and why would a Kanter re-sign here only to be traded?

Yeah in theory it could have value. But how many trade exceptions and Raef LaFrentz Golden Tickets actually return value? If you look at history it's very unlikely or it's insignificant value. When teams give up rotational players they want talent back, not expiring dead money for injured players.

With Zach on a $7.3 million contract having additional luxury tax (or less room to take on salary below the luxury tax) and using a roster spot its also very possible renouncing Zach's rights has more benefit than him on an expiring contract.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Kanter can’t be traded until December and wouldn’t take a one year contact here. Do people not understand the value of $7.3 million expiring contract for a capped out team that needs to improve?

How many potential deals are to be missed waiting until Kanter can be traded, and why would a Kanter re-sign here only to be traded?

When has Neil made a trade before December?

Its either done during the draft/free agency, or its done well after the start of the season. Plus all the trading partners often need to wait until December.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

Zach isn’t going to be traded as a player unless the other team wants him.

Yeah in theory it could have value. But how many trade exceptions and Raef LaFrentz Golden Tickets actually return value? If you look at history it's very unlikely or it's insignificant value. When teams give up rotational players they want talent back, not expiring dead money for injured players.

With Zach on a $7.3 million contract having additional luxury tax (or less room to take on salary below the luxury tax) and using a roster spot its also very possible renouncing Zach's rights has more benefit than him on an expiring contract.

So having no asset is better than having an expiring contract as an asset. Who cares about luxury tax? If fans want penny-pinching like that, I hope they don’t complain when Dame leaves because letting Zach go for nothing sure doesn’t seem like ownership is serious about improving the roster.

How are you going lose a roster spot? There are only 7 players under contract right now for next season and even those contracts have the Blazers over the cap so it’s not like Olshey can sign some free agent for that $7.3 million. Blevins is gone. Bam, there’s a roster spot. Hollis-Jefferson is gone. Bam, there’s two roster spots. Assuming DJJ opts out, bam, there’s three roster spots. All that is available is the $5.3 million MLE and veteran minimum contracts for Neil to being in new players via free agency. Other than that, it’s trades as the only other option, and Zach’s QO makes that a hell of a lot easier and broadens the available opportunities due to Portland already being capped.

Thinking this is about Zach as a player isn’t thinking like a GM looking for deals. I don’t really know what else to say other than letting Zach walk for nothing takes a big bargaining chip off the table for a summer or training camp trade. I keep seeing “re-sign Kanter and trade him” but he’s going to get at least Zach’s QO money from another team or an MLE that’s close to it, so you have the exact same issue with a difference in maybe $6 million total in tax penalties between the two contracts. Plus you can’t trade him until just before a Christmas, and I doubt he’d re-sign here anyway knowing he’s trade bait. Why not just sign with a team of his choosing?

 

[KristinthBonkers]

When has Neil made a trade before December?

Its either done during the draft/free agency, or its done well after the start of the season. Plus all the trading partners often need to wait until December.

What are you talking about? Zach can get the QO before the draft/free agency and be able to be part of a draft day trade. Last year RoCo was acquired the day before the draft.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

This is awful. So much potential wasted. This day of age it makes me think some shitty surgeons. How can this not be corrected?

Many times it has nothing to do with the surgery or surgeon but it's a lack of blood flow in that area. Low blood flow means it doesn't heal right. I believe that I read somewhere that his father had a very similar injury in college that never healed right so he couldn't play again.

Abstract
Bone is a highly vascularized tissue, although this aspect of bone is often overlooked. In this article, the importance of blood flow in bone repair and regeneration will be reviewed. First, the skeletal vascular anatomy, with an emphasis on long bones, the distinct mechanisms for vascularizing bone tissue, and methods for remodeling existing vasculature are discussed. Next, techniques for quantifying bone blood flow are briefly summarized. Finally, the body of experimental work that demonstrates the role of bone blood flow in fracture healing, distraction osteogenesis, osteoporosis, disuse osteopenia, and bone grafting is examined. These results illustrate that adequate bone blood flow is an important clinical consideration, particularly during bone regeneration and in at-risk patient groups.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472118/

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Time to pass - too bad

 

[James lamphear]

I believe olshey will be talking to doctor before he make a decision on Zach. If the doctors say they can fix the problem and he can resume play this year he probably going to sign some type of a contract. If the doctors yes they can fix but not certain it will hold more likely Zach career is over.

 

[wizenheimer]

Just wanted to be factual. Including Oden and the other guy as examples of foot injures derailing careers made no sense.

it wasn't about a specific part of the body...it was about a chronic injury that just can't seem to heal properly and a player who just can't seem to get past injuries. Zach is not unusual or unique in that. There have been plenty of big men who have had their careers seriously abbreviated because of injury. What is rare is a big who will come out of a rash of injuries and put together a stretch of healthy seasons. That's why Ilgauskas is ALWAYS mentioned in these discussions because he was about the only exception

 

[wizenheimer]

should the Blazers offer Zach the QO? I'd say probably not.

to start with, he hasn't met "starter criteria" so his QO will not be 7.3M. Near as I can figure it will be around 5.5M. With tax, that would mean the Blazers could pay 14M just for spec on a 5.5M expiring. That's a pretty steep price to pay for overrated expiring contract. Portland will already have over 40M in expiring contracts anyway. Granted, most of that will be on players in the rotation, but still, a potential trade next season will not fail because of a lack of expiring contract leverage

then of course is that Zach can veto any trade. To pay 14M on spec for a 5.5M expiring you don't have full control over seems pretty dumb to me

finally, in the remote chance that Zach actually returns late next season and plays decently, if he's playing on the QO he becomes UFA next summer. Portland would not have the right of first refusal.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Zach isn’t going to be traded as a player unless the other team wants him.


So having no asset is better than having an expiring contract as an asset. Who cares about luxury tax? If fans want penny-pinching like that, I hope they don’t complain when Dame leaves because letting Zach go for nothing sure doesn’t seem like ownership is serious about improving the roster.

How are you going lose a roster spot? There are only 7 players under contract right now for next season and even those contracts have the Blazers over the cap so it’s not like Olshey can sign some free agent for that $7.3 million. Blevins is gone. Bam, there’s a roster spot. Hollis-Jefferson is gone. Bam, there’s two roster spots. Assuming DJJ opts out, bam, there’s three roster spots. All that is available is the $5.3 million MLE and veteran minimum contracts for Neil to being in new players via free agency. Other than that, it’s trades as the only other option, and Zach’s QO makes that a hell of a lot easier and broadens the available opportunities due to Portland already being capped.

Thinking this is about Zach as a player isn’t thinking like a GM looking for deals. I don’t really know what else to say other than letting Zach walk for nothing takes a big bargaining chip off the table for a summer or training camp trade. I keep seeing “re-sign Kanter and trade him” but he’s going to get at least Zach’s QO money from another team or an MLE that’s close to it, so you have the exact same issue with a difference in maybe $6 million total in tax penalties between the two contracts. Plus you can’t trade him until just before a Christmas, and I doubt he’d re-sign here anyway knowing he’s trade bait. Why not just sign with a team of his choosing?

I dont believe an injured Zach Collins making $7 million with trade veto ability is a "big bargaining chip". I'd say it worth almost nothing, maybe you can acquire a Kent Bazemore but you can also sign guys like that for the minimum.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I believe olshey will be talking to doctor before he make a decision on Zach. If the doctors say they can fix the problem and he can resume play this year he probably going to sign some type of a contract. If the doctors yes they can fix but not certain it will hold more likely Zach career is over.

I dont think any doctor will say yes he will play, they don't make those types of guarantees.

They might say it's possible he fully recovers, but that will be Neil's fault if he uses such statement to sign Zach.

 

[James lamphear]

I guess we will find out this month what olshey will do.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

I dont believe an injured Zach Collins making $7 million with trade veto ability is a "big bargaining chip". I'd say it worth almost nothing, maybe you can acquire a Kent Bazemore but you can also sign guys like that for the minimum.

His contract can be added to a trade for a better player and he can agree to not veto a trade but your mind is made up, I completely disagree you, so let’s move on to another topic.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I found the future Mrs. Collins.

 

[Hoopguru]

His contract can be added to a trade for a better player and he can agree to not veto a trade but your mind is made up, I completely disagree you, so let’s move on to another topic.

His contract is a poker chip/ asset that can be used in a trade, doesn't mean he's worth that as a player. Strictly an engineering maneuver.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

His contract is a poker chip/ asset that can be used in a trade, doesn't mean he's worth that as a player. Strictly an engineering maneuver.

That’s been exactly my point and it seems to be a simple one if you get Zach and his agent to waive the no-trade in order to make over $5.3 million more than the minimum for a 4-year veteran. If they refuse, don’t sign him and he can beg around the league for a minimum contact. Zach would be foolish to not agree and as @RR7 stated earlier, be honest with Zach and say he’s only getting that QO because it’s a potential trade piece if he agrees to the terms.

 

[B-Roy]

https://theathletic.com/2709729/202...o-be-a-great-story/?source=emp_shared_article

TL;DR - Blazers are NOT extending the QO to Zach.

Thirteen days later, on June 29, he had surgery in New York, this time by Dr. Martin O’Malley. The timeline for recovery is four to six months. In the hours after his surgery, Collins had already shifted gears mentally.

This summer, Collins is a free agent, adding to the pain and frustration that comes with a third stress fracture to the same ankle. The Blazers will not tender a qualifying offer at $7 million, making him an unrestricted free agent.

Collins said he would like to return to Portland, and Bartelstein said he intends to have discussions with Neil Olshey, the Blazers’ president of basketball operations.

He is rehabilitating in Las Vegas until he knows with which team he will sign, then he will likely move there and continue his recovery. He said he hopes that team is the Trail Blazers.

“I love Portland,” Collins said. “I’ve always said I love Portland and it would be great to come back and show what I can do.”

 

[Chris Craig]

https://theathletic.com/2709729/202...o-be-a-great-story/?source=emp_shared_article

TL;DR - Blazers are NOT extending the QO to Zach.

Yeah. Knew that was coming. Blazers can't afford to pay him the $7 mill QO. Sounds possible he may return under a minimum contract.

 

[Scalma]

His agent thinks Zach could get a multi year deal? I’ll believe that when I see it.

 

[B-Roy]

Yeah. Knew that was coming. Blazers can't afford to pay him the $7 mill QO. Sounds possible he may return under a minimum contract.

That's the most likely scenario for him returning to the team. If another team gives him more guaranteed money my guess is he is gone. We can't afford to pay Collins if he might not play next year. 4 months would be the start of the season, 6 months would be December. But knowing Zach, he'll likely be out till at least the all-star break. At that point, it will be almost 2 full years without real basketball. (I know he played like 5 games in the bubble)

 

[tykendo]

His agent thinks Zach could get a multi year deal? I’ll believe that when I see it.

I just don't see any team offering anything more than a prove it deal. At least no contending franchise. They're all over the Salary cap. The Knicks are under but i don't see them as a contender. And i doubt they would offer him a multi year. Agent has to remain positive though.

 

[Scalma]

I just don't see any team offering anything more than a prove it deal. At least no contending franchise. They're all over the Salary cap. The Knicks are under but i don't see them as a contender. And i doubt they would offer him a multi year. Agent has to remain positive though.

what’s scary is I wouldn’t put it past Olshey. We saw what he did with Hood; gave the guy a raise coming of an Achilles injury. For once I’d like to see him do a favor for the team he actually works for, and not for agents or GMs of other teams. That’d be nice.

 

[RR7]

what’s scary is I wouldn’t put it past Olshey. We saw what he did with Hood; gave the guy a raise coming of an Achilles injury. For once I’d like to see him do a favor for the team he actually works for, and not for agents or GMs of other teams. That’d be nice.

He gave that deal to Hood so that he would be a good trade chip. We were able to move Hood for Powell because he gave him that raise. Pat Riley did the exact same thing with Meyers.

 

[B-Roy]

He gave that deal to Hood so that he would be a good trade chip. We were able to move Hood for Powell because he gave him that raise. Pat Riley did the exact same thing with Meyers.

Yeah, so if you want to do it, at least do it with Kanter. At least Kanter can take the floor.

 

[RR7]

Yeah, so if you want to do it, at least do it with Kanter. At least Kanter can take the floor.

I argued about this before. Ideally, we make any deal in the offseason. With Kanter, you'd have to wait until Dec. Zach on Q.O. would be immediately tradeable.

 

[BlazerBeav]

Yeah, so if you want to do it, at least do it with Kanter. At least Kanter can take the floor.

If we were going to be without Nurk again, sure, but (please basketball gods) assuming that isn't the case, meh.

 

[B-Roy]

I argued about this before. Ideally, we make any deal in the offseason. With Kanter, you'd have to wait until Dec. Zach on Q.O. would be immediately tradeable.

Where are you seeing that he would be immediately tradable? I don't recall anyone ever signing the QO and then getting traded in the same off-season. I know it's happened with players signing their rookie contract.

But even if we assume that it's true, a couple of issues with that:

1. Zach could veto a trade, and the team taking him doesn't get his bird rights. So we can assume Zach has no trade value, for us or the team taking him. He's strictly a salary filler.
2. There's a lot of risk offering the QO if you don't already have a deal lined up. Because there is a lot of risk he actually takes it and sits on your books for 7 million.
3. If you already have a deal in place, you can just do a S&T. No need to bother with the QO. Doesn't matter if it is Zach at that point or Kanter.

So I just don't think it makes sense. If you want to sign a 7 million dollar trade filler, you're angling for a deal at or near the deadline. Otherwise, you could just do a S&T. The very specific scenario you laid out has never happened before as far as I know, and we also know team thinks it's unlikely given that they are not extending the QO.