SI.com's Top 100 NBA players of 2017 (1 Viewer)

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e_blazer said:
No kidding. Why is it that lack of defense counts so heavily against Dame, but not against Harden? Dame at least got his team into the playoffs.
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No kidding. SMH
 
BBert said:
No kidding. SMH
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I'm sure we all remember Wes abusing Harden in post-up situations in the playoffs 2 years ago. IMO, Harden's main talent is the art of the flop and drawing of fouls. Is this something that should lead to being ranked in the top-10?
 
I'm not a Harden fan, but he was the only healthy player on the Rockets two seasons ago, and led them to 56 wins in a tough Western Conference.

He's obviously an elite player.

All the things said about him are true. The flops and horrid defense detract from his overall play.

Pistol Pete was one hell of a player. Played matador defense - waved at his man as he went by.
 
e_blazer said:
No kidding. Why is it that lack of defense counts so heavily against Dame, but not against Harden? Dame at least got his team into the playoffs.
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It completely invalidates the list, if you ask me.
 
Harden is 7th and has the worst defense in the NBA. At least Dame tries. This list is drunk as fuck anways. Blake at 10? k...
 
Harden is the most manufactured star in the league.

It's sad because I think he actually has the straight up talent to be the best shooting guard, but he's so concerned with drawing fouls that it lowers his overall ability, in my opinion.
 
Harden has elite offensive skills no question, but no defense. His lack of defense plus his offensive reliance on the flop and manufactured free throws make him pretty easy to hate. Like others said, if Dame gets downgraded based on his defense, Harden should too. He's way overrated on this list.
 
BBert said:
Harden has elite offensive skills no question, but no defense. His lack of defense plus his offensive reliance on the flop and manufactured free throws make him pretty easy to hate. Like others said, if Dame gets downgraded based on his defense, Harden should too. He's way overrated on this list.
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Elite offensive skills= wait until the defender puts out a hand and then rise with the ball using his arms to make contact with the defender's arm and draw the foul.

absolutely elite.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Elite offensive skills= wait until the defender puts out a hand and then rise with the ball using his arms to make contact with the defender's arm and draw the foul.

absolutely elite.
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Drawing fouls, especially against the opponents' better players, is significant. In foul trouble, they're playing lesser players or the starter is playing a less aggressive to avoid more fouls.
 
Denny Crane said:
Drawing fouls, especially against the opponents' better players, is significant. In foul trouble, they're playing lesser players or the starter is playing a less aggressive to avoid more fouls.
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I dont disagree its significant. But the skills it requires?... meh..
 
Orion Bailey said:
I dont disagree its significant. But the skills it requires?... meh..
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If it weren't a skill, everyone would be able to do it. The fact that Harden can do something that is so beneficial to his team, and do so significantly better than anyone else in the league, suggests that it is most definitely a skill.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
If it weren't a skill, everyone would be able to do it. The fact that Harden can do something that is so beneficial to his team, and do so significantly better than anyone else in the league, suggests that it is most definitely a skill.
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Meh. Maybe not everyone is doing it because its a bullshit non NBA play?

Maybe not everyone is doing it because they dont want to build the sloppy habit and then watch the league change things on them?

I disagree with "Just because no one else is doing it, it must be elite."

More would probably do it if they got more crappy calls like he does.

Think about the play in of itself. You really think it takes skills and no one but him can do it?


I think the bulk of nba fans and players shy away from it because they dont want be known as a flopper or have an asterisk next to their stats like he does in my opinion.

This is like saying everyone ( most everyone) speeds on the highway, so the ones who dont must have elite skills.

Sorry.
What skill does this need? The ONLY thing it really requires to be have a very quick upward motion. That's it.
 
Orion Bailey said:
I dont disagree its significant. But the skills it requires?... meh..
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The FTA certainly are hugely valuable. You can see how many he has in the stats.

However he gets them, he gets them.

I wish our guys drew that many fouls.
 
Even if Harden weren't a protected flop master, he still would be a top offensive player in the league. It's just that his game has evolved so far to the dark side, it's hard to remember or even notice.
 
Denny Crane said:
The FTA certainly are hugely valuable. You can see how many he has in the stats.

However he gets them, he gets them.

I wish our guys drew that many fouls.
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I do to, but in legit moves to the hoop types of ways.
I wouldnt be able to maintain my fandom if Dame and CJ sat at the top of the key swinging the ball left to right down low waiting for that hand and then rise for the foul.

More fouls? certainly, but based off of actual effort, not the lazy mans cheating way.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. No one will sway me that this is an elite skill.
It might be a significant move, but skill, no way.
 
BBert said:
Even if Harden weren't a protected flop master, he still would be a top offensive player in the league. It's just that his game has evolved so far to the dark side, it's hard to remember or even notice.
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And this may be true, but he chose to go to the dark side and now his game, his name and his fame take hits because of it.
 
The flop goes way back in basketball history whether we like it or not...Rick Barry, Jerry Sloan and Phil Jackson mastered it in their playing days...Sloan taught it to many players he coached...selling it was the art and in a way it's been part of basketball for a long time...I don't like it unless you can't tell it was a flop.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Meh. Maybe not everyone is doing it because its a bullshit non NBA play?

Maybe not everyone is doing it because they dont want to build the sloppy habit and then watch the league change things on them?

I disagree with "Just because no one else is doing it, it must be elite."

More would probably do it if they got more crappy calls like he does.

Think about the play in of itself. You really think it takes skills and no one but him can do it?


I think the bulk of nba fans and players shy away from it because they dont want be known as a flopper or have an asterisk next to their stats like he does in my opinion.

This is like saying everyone ( most everyone) speeds on the highway, so the ones who dont must have elite skills.

Sorry.
What skill does this need? The ONLY thing it really requires to be have a very quick upward motion. That's it.
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There's a huge difference between the flop and the drawn foul. Yes, Harden flops a lot, but he also draws a huge number of legitimate fouls, and he does so by design. And don't act as though other players don't want and try to do the same--they do, just not as well. It's more than just "a quick upward motion"--it involves deceptively convincing the defender to attempt to stop you in a way you know they can't. Like Dame drawing fouls on his 3 point attempts while coming around a screen. He does it repeatedly, intentionally, and better than anyone else not named Jamal Crawford. It is most definitely a skill.

And your speeding analogy is simply terrible, ridiculous really.
 
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