SI: Lillard will lead the league in scoring

[blue9]

It was actually Zeke's teammates - The Bad Boys, that started the whole no easy baskets trend with The Jordan Rules. EVERYTIME Jordan entered the paint against the Pistons, someone knocked him on his ass. It was expected. It was a given. Of course, Jordan is taller than Lillard, but as a whole, the game was a LOT more physical back them.

Remember this:



An elbow to the face that required 40 stitches in a regular season game in early December. That was over the top even back then and led to a stiff fine ($10K) and severe one game suspension.

BNM

I know it was a more physical game back then, but I just don't recall PGs ending up on the floor nearly every time they drove to the hoop. Now it's a near miracle for a PG/SG to stay on their feet! I don't think it's because they're getting pounded like back in the 80s/90s, but rather that they're going full-tilt with no expectation of landing on their feet.

Also, while that hit was pretty huge I think it was a good basketball play. Malone was challenging the shot, not playing dirty - Zeke just happened to run into a brick wall.

 

[Schilly]

It's because the players fall down now, partly because they try harder to get it to still fall by absorbing the contact with their body and flip the ball up. Back then they just wanted the foul.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I know it was a more physical game back then, but I just don't recall PGs ending up on the floor nearly every time they drove to the hoop. Now it's a near miracle for a PG/SG to stay on their feet! I don't think it's because they're getting pounded like back in the 80s/90s, but rather that they're going full-tilt with no expectation of landing on their feet.

A lot of what you see now is players "selling the contact" (aka: flopping) to try to draw a whistle. Do you honestly think the contact (or non-contact) really warrants James Harden ending up sprawled on the floor after every drive? Falling down is now a major part of many players' offensive arsenal.

BNM

 

[blue9]

A lot of what you see now is players "selling the contact" (aka: flopping) to try to draw a whistle. Do you honestly think the contact (or non-contact) really warrants James Harden ending up sprawled on the floor after every drive? Falling down is now a major part of many players' offensive arsenal.

BNM

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm getting at. It still can't be good for the body.

 

[handiman]

An elbow to the face that required 40 stitches in the first quarter of a regular season game in early December. That was over the top even back then and led to a stiff fine ($10K) and severe one game suspension.

I agree with blue9. After years of hearing about that play (and Malone's later reputation for sharp elbows, just ask Brian Grant) and Isaiah's talk of Malone being a marked man in Chicago (?) as a result, this is the first time I've seen video of it. I can't make out any intent to lead with the elbow. It looked to be purely bad luck.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I agree with blue9. After years of hearing about that play (and Malone's later reputation for sharp elbows, just ask Brian Grant) and Isaiah's talk of Malone being a marked man in Chicago (?) as a result, this is the first time I've seen video of it. I can't make out any intent to lead with the elbow. It looked to be purely bad luck.

Did you watch the entire video? There are other angles later in the video, but it's still a crappy low res video. I remember seeing it real time on my nice big 32" CRT television and there was no doubt about the intent at the time. Zeke had whined about Stockton making the Dream Team over him, and to prove his point, lit up Stockton for 44 in their first meeting a month earlier. Malone wasn't going to let Zeke embarrass his teammate again and laid Zeke out 4 minutes into the rematch.

BNM

 

[handiman]

Did you watch the entire video? There are other angles later in the video, but it's still a crappy low res video. I remember seeing it real time on my nice big 32" CRT television and there was no doubt about the intent at the time.

Yeah, I watched the whole thing, and I think you hit on the key point there. Real time looked much, much worse than slow-mo. I imagine the refs didn't have the benefit of instant replay back then and were heavily influenced by the real time intensity of impact. I didn't see any angle in the video that looked like Malone led with his elbow. If it was intentional, it was a masterful job of disguising it.

 

[Reep]

If it was intentional, it was a masterful job of disguising it.

I'm sure it was not intentional. Karl Malone using his elbows to give someone a gash requiring stitches?

Karl was always a master of disguising his elbows. Every single time.





and of course:

 

[handiman]

I'm sure it was not intentional. Karl Malone using his elbows to give someone a gash requiring stitches?

You didn't add anything I didn't already acknowledge in the first reply...

Those first three videos won't load for me. The Brian Grant one doesn't appear to be the correct clip for the big, obvious elbow he took from Malone. I couldn't make it out in there, at any rate.

 

[Draco]

You're right, I was just being emotional. Too many years of watching B-Roy sacrifice his body to no end.

He had bad knees, his drives didn't damage his body.

His final injury was near the 3 point line against Ron Artest or whoever that was on the Lakers.

I do think he ignored his body and stupidly forced his way through injuries. Returning the Phoenix series in the playoffs 7 days after surgery. Who knows what other times at UW or in his earlier years he did similar.

But it might have happened anyways with Roy; knees are just the worst body part for an NBA player to injure.

 

[Draco]

Did Zeke crash to the floor after 50%+ of his drives to the basket? Honest question. I just don't recall little guys ending up on the floor back in those days the way they do now.

The game is much more physically demanding nowdays. Players are much bigger and stronger, on average about 3 inches and 25lbs. A lot different crashing into someone 6'4 210lb than 6'7 235lb

 

[Boob-No-More]

The game is much more physically demanding nowdays. Players are much bigger and stronger, on average about 3 inches and 25lbs. A lot different crashing into someone 6'4 210lb than 6'7 235lb

Really? Where did you get those numbers? Is that a fact (if so, can you provide a link), or an estimate? To me, it seems like there are fewer true centers (no Shaq, no Mark Eaton, etc.) and teams play a lot more small ball these days. It even seemed like SGs were bigger back them with Clyde at 6'7" and MJ at 6'6". Hell, Magic was a 6'9" PG back then.

Not disagreeing, because I don't have any numbers, but your assertions runs counter to my intuition.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Really? Where did you get those numbers? Is that a fact (if so, can you provide a link), or an estimate? To me, it seems like there are fewer true centers (no Shaq, no Mark Eaton, etc.) and teams play a lot more small ball these days. It even seemed like SGs were bigger back them with Clyde at 6'7" and MJ at 6'6". Hell, Magic was a 6'9" PG back then.

Not disagreeing, because I don't have any numbers, but your assertions runs counter to my intuition.

BNM

There have been fluctuations, but we're actually pretty similar now height-wise to where we were 30 years ago, and about 10 lbs heavier, it appears.

http://seatsmart.com/blog/history-of-the-nba-player/

 

[Orion Bailey]

The game is much more physically demanding nowdays. Players are much bigger and stronger, on average about 3 inches and 25lbs. A lot different crashing into someone 6'4 210lb than 6'7 235lb

But what does size matter when the rules have changed so much? Contact happens much less. Leaning on a guy happens much less. The NBA used to be more like a Tai Fighting match, but is now more like boxing.

I think the size of players is washed away by the lack of actual contact now compared to back then and the contact that happens now is nothing compared to back then. This should be fairly universally known. MANY players and coaches have commented on this over the last few years.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Height hasn't changed much over the past 30 years, but average player weight has increased about 10 lbs since the mid-80's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing_experience

Cool, thanks. It's interesting how little the average height and weight have changed over the years. The late 80s saw a lot of players at the extremes (Manute Bol 7'7" and Gheorghe Muresan 7'7" vs. Muggsy Bogues 5'3" and Spud Webb 5'6"), but these statistical outliers don't' really impact the averages.

Although there have been variations over the years, it's interesting that the average height in 1985 (78.95") and 2015 (78.93) are almost identical.

Average height and weight peaked 15 years ago, and although the trend is gradual, it does seem like the game is becoming smaller and lighter as teams shift away from a traditional center and play more small ball.

BNM

 

[BBert]

In response to the Karl Malone video: I can't believe what I'm reading. Malone 100% intentionally laid Thomas out. He made zero play on the ball. Of course he couldn't know his cheap shot would be that effective, but I doubt he was displeased. The fact he wasn't looking at Thomas at the moment of contact does not disprove he did it on purpose. To the contrary, that is exactly that piece of shit Malone's modus operandi.

As Reep said so accurately: Malone was always a master of disguising his elbows. Every single time.

 

[Boob-No-More]

In response to the Karl Malone video: I can't believe what I'm reading. Malone 100% intentionally laid Thomas out. He made zero play on the ball. Of course he couldn't know his cheap shot would be that effective, but I doubt he was displeased. The fact he wasn't looking at Thomas at the moment of contact does not disprove he did it on purpose. To the contrary, that is exactly that piece of shit Malone's modus operandi.

As Reep said so accurately: Malone was always a master of disguising his elbows. Every single time.

And then there was the cheap shot on Joe Kleine that required 30 stitches and plastic surgery. I can't find a video, but they were running down court side-by-side with Malone slightly ahead of Kleine when he just flat out leveled him with an elbow to the face. It was a total cheap shot. So yeah, Malone has a history of intentional elbows that led to some serious damage.

BNM

 

[BBert]

And then there was the cheap shot on Joe Kleine that required 30 stitches and plastic surgery. I can't find a video, but they were running down court side-by-side with Malone slightly ahead of Kleine when he just flat out leveled him with an elbow to the face. It was a total cheap shot. So yeah, Malone has a history of intentional elbows that led to some serious damage.

BNM

Ooh...I remember that.

 

[Schilly]

There wasn't even such a thing as a flagrant foul in the 80's

 

[handiman]

Y'all keep contradicting each other by agreeing with examples of blatantly obvious Malone elbows being evidence of how he was masterful at disguising the ones that didn't appear intentional.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

It was so awesome watching Rodman absolutely take Malone out of his game though. It was a thing of beauty. Outmanipulating and outbullying the bully.

 

[Binx]

Hoo, boy. Now I'm thinking McCollum might lead the league in scoring!

 

[adrenalize74]

I am worried that Lillard's shooting slump may not be a slump. His shot was fugly tonight.

 

[handiman]

It looked to me like Lillard wasn't squaring up on the long balls. He's shooting from his right hip. (I couldn't tell if he was still doing it in the second half.) His game in the paint has really developed, though. Crafty around the hoop and he even teased us with a tear drop.

Leonard appeared to be pushing the shot early before settling into his quick flick routine. Hopefully, Lillard can find a similar adjustment to get back to what worked so well.

 

[blue32]

It looked to me like Lillard wasn't squaring up on the long balls. He's shooting from his right hip. (I couldn't tell if he was still doing it in the second half.) His game in the paint has really developed, though. Crafty around the hoop and he even teased us with a tear drop.

Leonard appeared to be pushing the shot early before settling into his quick flick routine. Hopefully, Lillard can find a similar adjustment to get back to what worked so well.

Lillards shot was terrible tonight! Was at the game.... Rushed, flat, not good form at all

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Best drummer in rock? Ringo's not even the best drummer in the Beatles!