Siakam?

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Pinwheel1 said:
I agree with your overall post, but this one line made me pause: he's a smallish guard (doesn't fit the type)

What type? I mean both Lowry, and VanVleet are smaller than CJ. (Flynn as well)
I remember games in the finals when they played both together in crunch time (Instead of Green)
And Nurse did use NP a lot at SF, so is he really opposed to small lineups? Don't crush our dreams Speeds
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Lowry and FVV are both very good defensive players. Powell is a plus defender.

Raptors just drafted three 6'5"+ point guards.
 
speeds said:
Lowry and FVV are both very good defensive players. Powell is a plus defender.

Raptors just drafted three 6'5"+ point guards.
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Whatever. Raptors just got a championship. They can play a bunch of guards for awhile. We need Siakam dammit.
 
James lamphear said:
Only way CJ gets traded if Powell signd with us. Only way Powell would sign with us if he the starting SG. So I taking my clue if CJ stays or goes is off Powell goes or stays.
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if teams are offering Powell a 3-year/60M deal and Olshey offers a 3-year/80M deal, Powell would almost certainly take the money
 
MickZagger said:
Yeah the more I think about it, Ujiri isn’t stupid. Why the hell would he trade us Siakam to build a young team around an aging McCollum who is basically just a scorer
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Ujiri is a free agent too I believe...he might not be in Toronto next season
 
speeds said:
Lowry and FVV are both very good defensive players. Powell is a plus defender.

Raptors just drafted three 6'5"+ point guards.
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The idea that Powell is a plus defender is wrong. He simply an average defender. His DBRM has been slightly negative the last few year. Looking at his raptor rating, it also has been slightly negative. With that being said, he can absolutely be a part of an elite defensive team, better than CJ. His ability to catch and shoot, cut to the rim, draw fouls is what make him a good fit next to dame. That fit would also be even better with an all star type forward
 
tykendo said:
I disagree on your Dame take. While Dame isn't in the same league defensively as Kawhi, he's a better all around offensive talent than Leonard. Dame's a better leader, distributor, and closer. Leonard lucked out on that bouncy ball game winner.
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Kawhi is a 2 time defensive player of the year. The gap between Kawhi's defense and Lillards is massive. The gap between Lillard being a better offensive player than Kawhi is there, but nowhere near the gap they have on defense. Lets not forgot Kawhi averages 25+ ppg.
 
damianlillard said:
The idea that Powell is a plus defender is wrong. He simply an average defender. His DBRM has been slightly negative the last few year. Looking at his raptor rating, it also has been slightly negative. With that being said, he can absolutely be a part of an elite defensive team, better than CJ. His ability to catch and shoot, cut to the rim, draw fouls is what make him a good fit next to dame. That fit would also be even better with an all star type forward
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You are basing that conclusion on DBRM? Just watch him defend other guards. Hell his effort alone makes him above average. Most players wait until the 4th to even try....until the playoffs.
 
wizenheimer said:
Could a 3-way trade, Simmons going to Toronto, SJ to Philly, and Siakam to Portland be a possibility. That looks like all three teams get better fits. Both PDX and Toronto might have to ship future first round picks to Philly
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I like that idea. Toronto could include Chris Boucher and salaries would still work.
 
speeds said:
I hope you don't mind but I don't think I can keep this short.

On March 24, Shams Charania reported that Pascal Siakam had been fined $50,000 for arguing with coach Nurse in the locker room. The Raptors denied that Siakam had been fined but did not deny that the argument took place. Siakam had been benched in the fourth quarter in a loss to the Cavaliers (Toronto's ninth consecutive) and was rumoured to be unhappy about that and generally displeased with being blamed for Toronto's post-Kawhi struggles.

Gotta go further back in time a little before continuing on. Right after winning the Larry OB Kawhi Leonard and his team (Jeremy Castleberry, Uncle Dennis, maybe others) decided that the Raptors weren't strong enough to repeat. Leonard approached the Raptors about acquiring Paul George from the Thunder. Seeing what Sam Presti squeezed out of the Clippers you've got to assume the deal would've centred around Siakam, Fred VanVleet, and first round picks. Even if they made the deal they would still not be guaranteed that Leonard would re-sign and could make more demands (apparently Leonard's team thought the PG trade was a good starting point only and expected more). Raptors GM Bobby Webster and PBO Masai Ujiri decided to max-out Siakam and keep him and try to sell Leonard on the team improving internally. Leonard bailed but said Toronto were in heavy consideration, more so than the Lakers.

Siakam had a great fourth season and was nearly a consensus All-Star starter for the East. Nobody was complaining about him making $30MM that season. (Important to note that Siakam started playing competitive basketball when he was like eighteen! You can fairly take a few years off his career and picture him as more like a fourth-year player than a sixth-year player). Then the playoffs happened. Toronto swept Brooklyn and faced Boston in the second round. It was the first time he played in a series against a good team that schemed against him specifically. Siakam bombed that series, playing hard defence but averaging 15ppg on .382/.125 shooting. The series went to seven games because Toronto was still really deep and experienced and the thought was if Siakam was just slightly better they would've made the third round. This performance brought out a lot of critics of Siakam who started questioning whether he could be the guy.

If you compare Siakam's 2019 All-Star season to his 2020 "disappointing" season you'll see he actually improved in several areas (2P%, relied less on his 3PA, increased his free throws per, moved up to nearly 5APG) but didn't show the leaps-and-bounds year-over-year improvement he had over the previous two seasons. Toronto struggled in Tampa, lost more key players, and went into retooling. Siakam still got slandered online for not being what fans wanted him to be.

Is Siakam unhappy now? We don't know. When you lose nine straight and the ninth comes against a shit-tier Cavs team, you WANT your star player to be fuming. To me this isn't indicative of an unhappy player in the broader sense. He hasn't come out and said anything like he wants to be gone. Kendrick Perkins said on draft night that the drafting of Barnes meant Siakam was leaving. For starters, Perk is a hot take artist and kind of an idiot, but he is especially supportive of Toronto (like Charles Barkley seems to be) so who knows what his M.O. was. I think he was just referring to the story about the fine and taking that to mean Siakam wants out/hates Nurse. I think that's a stretch. Toronto's been good to Siakam and Barnes looks to be a multi-positional player like Draymond Green or Ben Simmons. I don't think he is a power forward to replace Siakam. He can play with him. But he's kind of a project too so I don't think it matters much this year what position he plays.

Trading McCollum for Siakam makes sense for Portland. They probably made an offer. Siakam running the floor with Lillard would be sweet. To me it makes no sense for Toronto. McCollum is going to be 30-years old this season (doesn't fit the core), he's a smallish guard (doesn't fit the type), and he's a Khris Middleton type complimentary star. Complimentary to who? This trade would make him our first option. It also stands to reason that re-signing GTJ for $17MM per year (trending that way) AND trading for McCollum is nonsensical. We DO need scoring but this move is an expensive and temporary way to address it IMHO. But what do I know?
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I agree it doesn't make sense for Toronto, but what about the above three way where they trade Boucher to Philly and Siakam to Portland and get Ben Simmons?
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I agree it doesn't make sense for Toronto, but what about the above three way where they trade Boucher to Philly and Siakam to Portland and get Ben Simmons?
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A Philly, TOR, POR, three way trade seems very beneficial for each team. Blazers could get Siakam, TOR could get Simmons, and the 76ers can get a good enough return between both teams. CJ, Boucher, picks, whatever
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I agree it doesn't make sense for Toronto, but what about the above three way where they trade Boucher to Philly and Siakam to Portland and get Ben Simmons?
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Philly wanted Lowry/FVV/Anunoby/4th/multiple future picks for Simmons when they approached Toronto so the idea that they'd do it just for Boucher who they didn't even ask for is probably an impossibility.
 
speeds said:
Philly wanted Lowry/FVV/Anunoby/4th/multiple future picks for Simmons when they approached Toronto so the idea that they'd do it just for Boucher who they didn't even ask for is probably an impossibility.
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Boucher and CJ and I guess portland could throw in a first round pick also. I think they will end up taking a lot less than they are asking for.
 
speeds said:
Philly wanted Lowry/FVV/Anunoby/4th/multiple future picks for Simmons when they approached Toronto so the idea that they'd do it just for Boucher who they didn't even ask for is probably an impossibility.
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Portland would give Philly CJ

TOR would give them Boucher

Both TOR and POR would give them picks
 
damianlillard said:
The idea that Powell is a plus defender is wrong. He simply an average defender. His DBRM has been slightly negative the last few year. Looking at his raptor rating, it also has been slightly negative. With that being said, he can absolutely be a part of an elite defensive team, better than CJ. His ability to catch and shoot, cut to the rim, draw fouls is what make him a good fit next to dame. That fit would also be even better with an all star type forward
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Gonna go ahead and admit I do not follow or fully understand advanced basketball statistics so maybe he is average overall. When I watch him play I think he is good defensively.
 
Chris Craig said:
A Philly, TOR, POR, three way trade seems very beneficial for each team. Blazers could get Siakam, TOR could get Simmons, and the 76ers can get a good enough return between both teams. CJ, Boucher, picks, whatever
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If we end up with Siakam for CJ and a future first... I would be ecstatic.

Dame, Norm, RoCo, Siakam, Nurk, Ant, Nas, DJJ and the taxpayer MLE would be a much better rotation than anything we've put out there around Dame.
 
lol these guys are idiots. do they forget that CJ put up 23 a game on terrific efficiency, and that he's one of the most elite iso scorers in the game?

they think even CJ+ Nurk for Siakam is not fair for Toronto.

i thought we were deluded. Toronto fans might be the worst at overrating their players.

 
Chris Craig said:
A Philly, TOR, POR, three way trade seems very beneficial for each team. Blazers could get Siakam, TOR could get Simmons, and the 76ers can get a good enough return between both teams. CJ, Boucher, picks, whatever
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Someone needs to text Neil and let him know. I think he might be busy putting all his eggs in the Otto Porter basket.
 
speeds said:
Gonna go ahead and admit I do not follow or fully understand advanced basketball statistics so maybe he is average overall. When I watch him play I think he is good defensively.
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Yeah the fact that he’s only slightly negative could be viewed as a good thing since there are so many dynamic guards in today’s game. He definitely try a lot harder than CJ. There’s only so much you can do as a defender now that even effort goes a long way
 
MickZagger said:
Someone needs to text Neil and let him know. I think he might be busy putting all his eggs in the Otto Porter basket.
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It's the perfect time to make the call to Philly and TOR after the Sixers were spurned for asking for too much and couldn't find a trade draft night. It's a trade ripe for the picking
 
Chris Craig said:
It's the perfect time to make the call to Philly and TOR after the Sixers were spurned for asking for too much and couldn't find a trade draft night. It's a trade ripe for the picking
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I know. If Neil isn’t being active on the phones non stop he’s an idiot. But in his usual fashion I think he’s being conservative.

He’s probably sitting back eating Foie Gras at some fancy restaurant waiting to for the calls to start bifurcating in his direction about CJ.

Cheese dick GM for sure
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
Why the fuck should the Sixers get CJ, Boucher and Picks for Ben fucking Simmons after one of the worst playoff performances of all time?
I wouldn't trade neither CJ nor Boucher for him, not to mention both plus picks... that's crazy!
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Judging a guy solely on a 12 game run would be more crazy... don't you think?
 
blazerkor said:
Judging a guy solely on a 12 game run would be more crazy... don't you think?
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No, it's money time and he completely folded, as you said, not for one game, for an entire playoffs.
A guy with such a 'Loser' label isn't worth a package like CJ, Boucher and picks. If you were the gm you'd get fired for this trade
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
No, it's money time and he completely folded, as you said, not for one game, for an entire playoffs.
A guy with such a 'Loser' label isn't worth a package like CJ, Boucher and picks. If you were the gm you'd get fired for this trade
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Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
Why the fuck should the Sixers get CJ, Boucher and Picks for Ben fucking Simmons after one of the worst playoff performances of all time?
I wouldn't trade neither CJ nor Boucher for him, not to mention both plus picks... that's crazy!
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Isn’t his playoff play kinda why he’s on the trade market to begin with?
 
Zach Collins Enthusiast said:
No, it's money time and he completely folded, as you said, not for one game, for an entire playoffs.
A guy with such a 'Loser' label isn't worth a package like CJ, Boucher and picks. If you were the gm you'd get fired for this trade
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"It's money time"?!? That shit's cheesy. Look at his past stats in "money time" he hasn't always "folded". You are still one hundred percent taking a 12 game sample size out of 275 and making a judgment. It's about as bad of a way to evaluate as there is. You're a prisoner of the moment, plain and simple.
 
MickZagger said:
Isn’t his playoff play kinda why he’s on the trade market to begin with?
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I actually think it's the fact that him and Embiid don't get along and their games don't fit together at all. I don't think Doc or Embiid would have been so vocal and frankly insulting in their Simmons critique if it was just a 12 game thing for them.
 
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