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Who on God's Green Earth wants Meyers Leonard for anything? Outside of Dame, CJ, Plumlee and (on some nights Crabbe,) our other players are basically throw ins. Neil overvalued this roster and then threw a ton of money at it. Let's hope in the offseason we can move for some low risk/high ceiling types and a couple of prospects. Looking at the success that Dallas is having with the D league, I'd like us to try more of the 10 day contracts. t know Neil doesnt really believe in the D league. Think it might be time to kick him to the curb? Ya think!
 
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blue9 said:
Eh...did they really? I know that, yes, we made it to the 2nd round. But c'mon - that really did have more to do with who we faced (or didn't face), than the quality play of Aminu/Harkless/Davis/Plumlee. Aminu was godawful for most of the LAC series and Davis was largely invisible. Both of our recent second round appearances had more to do with luck than truly being a quality 2nd round team.
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Man, I really wish I could like my own post.
 
ripcityboy said:
Who on God's Green Earth wants Meyers Leonard for anything? Outside of Dame, CJ, Plumlee and (on some nights Crabbe,) our other players are basically throw ins. Neil overvalued this roster and then threw a ton of money at it. Let's hope in the offseason we can move for some low risk/high ceiling types and a couple of prospects. Looking at the success that Dallas is having with the D league, I'd like us to try more of the 10 day contracts. t know Neil doesnt really believe in the D league. Think it might be time to kick him to the curb? Ya think!
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Honestly, I think many will change their tune once we get a look at contracts are handed our this summer. Cap going way up again.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Honestly, I think many will change their tune once we get a look at contracts are handed our this summer. Cap going way up again.
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If the money is as ridiculous as last year, maybe, but I still like our odds with some restructuring in trades and adding talent through the draft. If we play the long game we might be able to salvage this group. We aren't doing jack for the time being.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Honestly, I think many will change their tune once we get a look at contracts are handed our this summer. Cap going way up again.
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By $12M - $13M, around 14-15% of current cap, not over 30% and $24M like last year. It won't cause teams to hand out contracts which are anywhere near as crazy as this year.
 
ripcityboy said:
Who on God's Green Earth wants Meyers Leonard for anything
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I thought about this and I think the Bulls need him...Mirotic is shooting horribly from deep...they need scoring and youth...Wade is no spring chicken. The Mavs need to replace Dirk's outside shooting too...there are some takers for Meyers out there...just don't expect a huge return...Hawks could use him too.
 
BigGameDamian said:
Haven't we been down the developing path before?
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sure, but we're now 1.5 years into a rebuild and made the playoffs year one...Olshey was clear about 3 year windows to contend...this one isn't as good as the last one.
 
riverman said:
I thought about this and I think the Bulls need him...Mirotic is shooting horribly from deep...they need scoring and youth...
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Well, Leonard can give them the youth. Not so much the scoring, or anything else, though.
 
riverman said:
He shoots the 3 way better than Mirotic this season...the Bulls could use him.
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He's barely average in three-point percentage. His shooting is in no way worth his awful defense.
 
riverman said:
Mirotic is shooting 30% from 3
Meyers is shooting 34.8 from 3
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I'm not saying Mirotic is good. I'm saying that Chicago having one bad player doesn't mean they'll want another bad player just because he shoots a little better. "Shooting" by itself is not very valuable, especially when it's not elite shooting. If a player can't play passable defense or provide other significant skills (great rebounding/passing), then that player isn't really worth playing.
 
riverman said:
Meyers is shooting 34.8 from 3
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Which is about the same as Ryan Anderson shot his last two years on New Orleans. He's shooting about 40% this year in the Houston system, so maybe playing for a contending team does something to up a player's confidence?
 
Minstrel said:
I'm not saying Mirotic is good. I'm saying that Chicago having one bad player doesn't mean they'll want another bad player just because he shoots a little better. "Shooting" by itself is not very valuable, especially when it's not elite shooting. If a player can't play passable defense or provide other significant skills (great rebounding/passing), then that player isn't really worth playing.
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you realize you don't need to convince me of Meyers shortcomings I'm hoping. the bulls are the same team that fired Thibbs, got rid of Noah and Rose..brought in an old D Wade and benched him a Butler...they took on Rondo for god's sake.....them taking Meyers isn't a stretch...it'd probably work out I think but my whole pt was what teams would see value in him...back to my original post...I mentioned 3....then you replied multiple times about why nobody wants him...?
Leads to a sort of "duh" debate about why I want to get rid of the kid....Luke Babbitt is starting in Miami...stranger things can happen
 
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riverman said:
but my whole pt was what teams would see value in him
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Yes, and I was disagreeing with that point. I don't believe that other teams would really see that as "value."

Leads to a sort of "duh" debate about why I want to get rid of the kid....
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I'm not trying to convince you that Leonard isn't good. I'm saying that I don't think he actually makes sense for Chicago, or other teams, in his current state. Sure, you can say, "Well, team X is dumb so it's okay to propose a trade where they do something dumb" (this was also a line of reasoning used when people came up with unrealistic Serge Ibaka deals--"Orlando's dumb! You never know what they'll do!") but I wouldn't rely too much on that.
 
Minstrel said:
Yes, and I was disagreeing with that point. I don't believe that other teams would really see that as "value."



I'm not trying to convince you that Leonard isn't good. I'm saying that I don't think he actually makes sense for Chicago, or other teams, in his current state. Sure, you can say, "Well, team X is dumb so it's okay to propose a trade where they do something dumb" (this was also a line of reasoning used when people came up with unrealistic Serge Ibaka deals--"Orlando's dumb! You never know what they'll do!") but I wouldn't rely too much on that.
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There's also a small chance that you're being a bit too negative about Leonard. Not that I can't relate to that, of course. Miles Plumlee, who's making more than Leonard but producing virtually nothing in his career, just got traded for Spencer Hawes and Roy Hibbert (which should make Blazers fans shudder as to NO's acumen when it comes to big men). Sure, that trade was primarily about Milwaukee dumping Plumlee for two ending contracts, but it shows that for a variety of reasons teams make moves that we fans don't expect. Personally, I think Meyers still has a chance to be a decent NBA player in the right system. For whatever reason, Stotts hasn't been able to make him productive, but that's not to say another coach couldn't.
 
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I think CHI would be absolutely thrilled to trade Mirotic for Leonard except for one problem. Leonard's contract may give them pause. If they were both payed the same though they would be all over that swap. They might still do it if we took another contract that they don't care for. They don't have any horrible ones except Rondo though.
 
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riverman said:
I thought about this and I think the Bulls need him...Mirotic is shooting horribly from deep...they need scoring and youth...Wade is no spring chicken. The Mavs need to replace Dirk's outside shooting too...there are some takers for Meyers out there...just don't expect a huge return...Hawks could use him too.
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Trade him for a bag of used replacement nets.... Just anything!
 
e_blazer said:
There's also a small chance that you're being a bit too negative about Leonard.
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Always a possibility.

I have no particular prejudice towards Leonard, though. He's just never struck me as a particularly promising player from the eye test and the stats suggest that he's a huge negative. I tend to trust the stats more because I'm not a scout, but I certainly agree that it's not impossible that he could blossom in a different situation or with a different coach. I'm just not bullish on his basketball future, based on what he's produced so far, and that's what informs my thoughts on how much he's likely to be valued around the league.
 
ripcityboy said:
If the money is as ridiculous as last year, maybe, but I still like our odds with some restructuring in trades and adding talent through the draft. If we play the long game we might be able to salvage this group. We aren't doing jack for the time being.
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The cap goes up and this isn't a better FA class. The contracts are going to be even more nuts suddenly Crabbe at 3/55, Turner at 3/51, Meyers at 3/30, Harkless at 3/30 don't look bad when giant contracts get given out and suddenly guys like Mirotic,Reddick,Porter,Illosvna,Evans,PJ Tucker could all be making 10+ a year on 4 year deals. The one thing we can always count on is that when NBA teams have money they spend it and its usually on overpaying people.
 
Minstrel said:
I'm not saying Mirotic is good. I'm saying that Chicago having one bad player doesn't mean they'll want another bad player just because he shoots a little better. "Shooting" by itself is not very valuable, especially when it's not elite shooting. If a player can't play passable defense or provide other significant skills (great rebounding/passing), then that player isn't really worth playing.
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Wasn't he one of those players we fucked up on by not trading LMA for?
 
Rhal said:
The cap goes up and this isn't a better FA class. The contracts are going to be even more nuts suddenly Crabbe at 3/55, Turner at 3/51, Meyers at 3/30, Harkless at 3/30 don't look bad when giant contracts get given out and suddenly guys like Mirotic,Reddick,Porter,Illosvna,Evans,PJ Tucker could all be making 10+ a year on 4 year deals. The one thing we can always count on is that when NBA teams have money they spend it and its usually on overpaying people.
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Isn't this a better free agent class though? Paul, Griffin, Lowry, Curry, Hayward, Millsap are all on the market, and all will get max deals. Redick, Wade and Iguodala will get good deals too. Who was there last year aside from Whiteside, Wade and Durant (maybe I'm missing someone)?
 
Sarni said:
Isn't this a better free agent class though? Paul, Griffin, Curry, Hayward, Millsap are all on the market, and all will get max deals. Who was there last year aside from Whiteside and Durant (maybe I'm missing someone)?
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Howard, Horford.
 
Sarni said:
Isn't this a better free agent class though? Paul, Griffin, Lowry, Curry, Hayward, Millsap are all on the market, and all will get max deals. Redick, Wade and Iguodala will get good deals too. Who was there last year aside from Whiteside, Wade and Durant (maybe I'm missing someone)?
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Lebron/Durant/Wade/Drummond/Horford/Conley/Derozen/Beal/Batum/Howard/Parsons-who was still considered a quality starter before tons more injuries
 
Sarni said:
Okay, them two too. Also Gasol but he's old. I'd argue that this year there's more to pick from (unless we believe Griffin and Paul will both stay).
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Curry's a lock to stay (going to your earlier list). The Clippers will likely do everything they can to keep Paul and Griffin, but if one leaves, the other may too.
 
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