Simons is legit

[PCmor7]

Yeah. Only better.

The physical resemblance is uncanny.

 

[BBert]

The physical resemblance is uncanny.

They are both very athletic. But Simons is more mature and more skilled than Simons. He seems to understand the NBA game better, too and he plays with more poise.

 

[PCmor7]

No, I'm not saying CJ is a creator for other players. I'm saying Dame & Harden are both creators and because of that, together they duplicate a function and have diminishing returns. There is only one ball. Together, of course they are better than either one by himself, but not nearly as much better as you'd expect on paper. In contrast, Dame + Nurk compliment each other.

If they were ball-dominators, I might think that's a more valid argument. But Dame isn't a ball-dominator, and, while Harden's game is very much like Brandon Roy's, he's shown the ability to play with another ball-dominator, Chris Paul, very effectively.

 

[PCmor7]

Get back to me when you check Enes Kanter's ejections.

Nurk has been ejected from 1 game.

WTF are you talking about?

How many games has Enes been ejected from with the Blazers? How many games has Enes fouled out with the Blazers?

You guys can try to bog things down in minutiae all you want, but it doesn't change the premise, which is that the Blazers would have a better chance to replace Nurk with a comparable player than anyone would of replacing Harden. You eliminated a whole four players from my list and I doubt you'd get anywhere universal agreement on those four.

If you replaced Nurk and CJ on the Blazers with Harden and Karl-Anthony Townes, you honestly think the Blazers wouldn't be a better team? You don't think KAT would thrive playing with Dame as much as Nurk does?

 

[tlongII]

Yeah. I know Nurk only played against the good teams.

And your post is off on a tangent, which is you would have a much harder time replacing James Harden with anybody than replacing Jusuf Nurkic.

Nurk played against a lot more good teams than Kanter has for us. And we finished ahead of Houston in the standings. You know? The team with Harden?

 

[tlongII]

OK, so tell me which of these bigs is NOT on a par with Nurk ...

Embiid
KAT
Jokic
Drummond
Gobert
Vukevic
Adams
Whiteside
Boogie

Can you say any of them aren't comparable to Nurk? I think, before this year, people on this board even discussed Vukevic and Whiteside as possible trade targets at center, and there still are people who wish we could have drafted Drummond.

How about if we add power 4s, since we are in an age of positionless basketball? Which of these aren't in a discussion with being close to Nurk in ability and production?

AD
LMA
Giannis
Capella

Maybe even Ayton deserves mention, too.

Now, how many guards could you say are in the ballpark with Harden in ability and production? Realistically?

Jokic and Embiid. That's it. And I think Nurk is a better fit here than either one of those guys.

 

[PCmor7]

Jokic and Embiid. That's it. And I think Nurk is a better fit here than either one of those guys.

Fair enough. But you kind of moved the goalpost in qualifying your answer. The question wasn't who is out and out better (and it amazes me that you don't think Giannis is, but OK), the question is who is comparable. Who would be good enough and a good enough fit that the Blazers could expect similar production and a similar number of wins. So you're effectively saying you think none of those other guys even are on a par with Nurk; I respectfully disagree with that, and I think the majority of us would.

 

[PCmor7]

Nurk played against a lot more good teams than Kanter has for us. And we finished ahead of Houston in the standings. You know? The team with Harden?

Two things that prove nothing. Kanter doesn't make the schedule. He performed well against who he had to perform well against, just like Nurk did. Both the good and bad teams.

And where the teams finish is a ridiculous argument. Taking that, we could say that there are 10 teams in the Western Conference with better players than LeBron James. Do you really want to make that argument?

 

[dviss1]

How many games has Enes been ejected from with the Blazers? How many games has Enes fouled out with the Blazers?

You guys can try to bog things down in minutiae all you want, but it doesn't change the premise, which is that the Blazers would have a better chance to replace Nurk with a comparable player than anyone would of replacing Harden. You eliminated a whole four players from my list and I doubt you'd get anywhere universal agreement on those four.

If you replaced Nurk and CJ on the Blazers with Harden and Karl-Anthony Townes, you honestly think the Blazers wouldn't be a better team? You don't think KAT would thrive playing with Dame as much as Nurk does?

So now not only does CJ and Nurk get us Harden somehow we miraculously get KAT too?

Kat plays no D and he's soft.

He's putting up empty numbers on a team that didn't make the playoffs.

And Nurk eats his LUNCH almost every time they play.

He is one of if not THE most overrated player in the NBA.

Nurk is better.

Insinuating Kanter isn't as susceptible to being ejected simply because he wears a Trailblazer uni is bad logic. Bring that argument to a complete stop.

Finally, the insinuation that I'm trying to "bog things down in minutiae" because I disagree with your argument is weird...

 

[tlongII]

Fair enough. But you kind of moved the goalpost in qualifying your answer. The question wasn't who is out and out better (and it amazes me that you don't think Giannis is, but OK), the question is who is comparable. Who would be good enough and a good enough fit that the Blazers could expect similar production and a similar number of wins. So you're effectively saying you think none of those other guys even are on a par with Nurk; I respectfully disagree with that, and I think the majority of us would.

The question is and always has been about making that trade. You're the one moving goalposts now. You are making an odd argument that somehow the difficulty in replacing Harden on the Rockets makes it a good trade. That makes no sense to me.

 

[blazerboy30]

100% agree. This Stotts twit has had Simons, Skal & Trent DNP on the bench, whilst giving dead-end minutes to Turner and Meyers; players that absolutely should not be on the roster in the near future.

Rookies can only learn so much from watching. CJ should have played sooner. Meyers was just f'd around with. Zach is getting the same treatment.
Stotts has totally Vonleh'd them.
Yet another reason the Blazers need some new coaching

Also, Skal should have been ,and moving forward, should be getting all of Meyers minutes.

I don't get this bashing of Stotts with respect to the development of the young players.

How many players have overachieved vs underachieved expectations from the time of them joining the Blazers as a young player?

Overachieved:
-- Lillard
-- CJ
-- Nurk
-- Harkless
-- Jake

Underachieved:
-- Myers

About as Expected:
-- Zach (although I think it's still very early)
-- Vonleh
-- Swanigan
-- Pat

To-be Seen:
-- Simons
-- Skal

Players like Turner, Aminu, Curry, Plumlee etc weren't really young when they joined, so I don't consider them in this discussion.

 

[bobf]

Look at their PER and win shares for the year. Consider that Kanter played most of his time with Portland in limited minutes until the last few when Nurk went out. Compare their stats as starters.

Among advanced stats I trust BPM and more-so RPM as long as you have multiple years of data. Box score stats can't do much to measure defense. Overall, I don't think Kanter is in the same realm as Nurk. Defense is half the game. Nurk is by far our best defender. For a center, Kanter's defense sucks. I don't even think Kanter is necessarily better offensively when you take into account passing & screen setting.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/position/9

Kanter's RPM has been negative each of the past four years. Nurk is +4.15 this year. That's plus three points per 36 minutes which translates into about +8 wins over 82 games.

 

[bobf]

Yeah. I know Nurk only played against the good teams.

And your post is off on a tangent, which is you would have a much harder time replacing James Harden with anybody than replacing Jusuf Nurkic.

Harden is the best offensive player in the NBA. Nurk is around the top 5 centers in the NBA. So yes, Harden is harder to replace. But that doesn't matter. Put two Hardens on the floor at the same time and one of them is standing around meanwhile both have to play defense. Harden plus Nurk is better than Harden plus Harden.

 

[TBpup]

He plays terrible in the playoff every year. This is no secret.

Secondly, the subject a James Harden. Focus.

Seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

Seriously?...lol.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Late to the party:
1) I would absolutely trade Nurk and CJ for Harden, but Houston wouldn't. #endDiscussion
2) Kanter has been ejected out of an entire country!
3) Would love to see the team keep Skal.
4) Would love to see Skal and Simons in the rotation next year (and ET, out).
5) Would love to see Collins make the vaunted 3rd year leap next year.

Wow, I'd like to see a lot of stuff!

 

[H.C.]

Late to the party:
1) I would absolutely trade Nurk and CJ for Harden, but Houston wouldn't. #endDiscussion
2) Kanter has been ejected out of an entire country!
3) Would love to see the team keep Skal.
4) Would love to see Skal and Simons in the rotation next year (and ET, out).
5) Would love to see Collins make the vaunted 3rd year leap next year.

Wow, I'd like to see a lot of stuff!

Wizard mentor is rooting against Portland to win a championship confirmed.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Wizard mentor is rooting against Portland to win a championship confirmed.

I don't need to root against Portland winning a championship - we won't win one, again. Post 1980, No small market team has won one without LBJ or TimmyD. We don't have that, and probably never will.

 

[tlongII]

We have Dame.

 

[riverman]

Kanter has barely learned the playbook yet...he does one thing at an elite level....offensive rebounding and putbacks...finishes at the rim. Nurk knows the playbook...has chemistry with the vets here...Kanter played with the bench until Nurk went down...Nurk is the better center...Kanter is good enough to sub in and keep us afloat...given a training camp and another year, Kanter might make a case for himself...he's a skilled big man..to me Nurk is our franchise starting center for many years to come.

 

[Natebishop3]

I actually LOVE the Simons/Dame backcourt. I think their abilities will pair up wonderfully.

 

[HailBlazers]

Statistically, Enes and Nurk are almost a wash. Nurk is the better passer and defender. Nurk also gets into foul trouble and sometimes gets himself tossed from games, which means he can't help you offensively or defensively.

And both Dame and Harden are creators. It's almost like you are saying CJ is the creator on the floor right now, but he's not. If anything, a Dame/Harden backcourt is more creative.

Statistics are somewhat irrelevant when it comes to defense. There is not a complete stat for

 

[HailBlazers]

Statistically, Enes and Nurk are almost a wash. Nurk is the better passer and defender. Nurk also gets into foul trouble and sometimes gets himself tossed from games, which means he can't help you offensively or defensively.

And both Dame and Harden are creators. It's almost like you are saying CJ is the creator on the floor right now, but he's not. If anything, a Dame/Harden backcourt is more creative.

Statistics? We talking Statistics? Man I'm talking Defense, Nurk is downright irreplaceable in that regard.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I don't get this bashing of Stotts with respect to the development of the young players.

How many players have overachieved vs underachieved expectations from the time of them joining the Blazers as a young player?

Overachieved:
-- Lillard
-- CJ
-- Nurk
-- Harkless
-- Jake

Underachieved:
-- Myers

About as Expected:
-- Zach (although I think it's still very early)
-- Vonleh
-- Swanigan
-- Pat

To-be Seen:
-- Simons
-- Skal

Players like Turner, Aminu, Curry, Plumlee etc weren't really young when they joined, so I don't consider them in this discussion.

Love or hate or wherever in between on Stotts, the bashing has nothing to do with player progression (or at least thats a minimal part of it), its playoff record and adjustments in the playoffs. He, Dame, CJ figure out how to look good in the playoffs there will be fewer bashers.

 

[joeBlazers]

Is Simon taller than Dame or CJ? Is he still expected to grow?

 

[Driew]

Is Simon taller than Dame or CJ? Is he still expected to grow?

I'm sure he'll grow a few more inches. He's still only 19. He's easily 6'4" now though.

 

[BonesJones]

I'm sure he'll grow a few more inches. He's still only 19. He's easily 6'4" now though.

Imagine if he grew another 4 inches. If he was 6'8 he'd have a chance at being the greatest Blazer ever.

 

[BonesJones]

Love or hate or wherever in between on Stotts, the bashing has nothing to do with player progression (or at least thats a minimal part of it), its playoff record and adjustments in the playoffs. He, Dame, CJ figure out how to look good in the playoffs there will be fewer bashers.

Always said he developed players well, and that's why he's a better stopgap coach for a rebuilding team.

 

[BonesJones]

Kanter has barely learned the playbook yet...he does one thing at an elite level....offensive rebounding and putbacks...finishes at the rim. Nurk knows the playbook...has chemistry with the vets here...Kanter played with the bench until Nurk went down...Nurk is the better center...Kanter is good enough to sub in and keep us afloat...given a training camp and another year, Kanter might make a case for himself...he's a skilled big man..to me Nurk is our franchise starting center for many years to come.

He's had 2 months, he better know the playbook by now... If he's barely learned it, then yikes. I believe youre quoting something from a month ago. He should know the system well by now.

 

[bobf]

Look at their PER and win shares for the year. Consider that Kanter played most of his time with Portland in limited minutes until the last few when Nurk went out. Compare their stats as starters.

Here is an analysis someone did of advanced stats. He calculated each stat's ability to predict the W/L record using this year's roster and last year's advanced stats.

https://www.brianlefevre.com/advanced-stats-and-predicting-nba-wins/

The best pure advanced stat was a combination of RPM and BPM.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Imagine if he grew another 4 inches. If he was 6'8 he'd have a chance at being the greatest Blazer ever.

Was just having this discussion about Simons (not about him being the greatest ever, as that’s a lot to heap on a dude this early). But he could still grow more into his body, given his other measurements. I am shocked by what we saw in the Sacto game, but add 2-4” inches in height, which is not out of the realm of possibility given his age and “late-blooming” status, and the sky would be the limit for this kid (if it wasn’t already).

The things he did the other night.... some of his passes with his long arms.... his shooting ability.... I am left dreaming of what could be with his talent.