Forum Game Simons vs Herro.

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Everything we read is about shopping Herro for a pick and keeping Simons but is that the wrong move? Very similar stats, same age, both are SG who play some PG, Simons has been in the league 1 more year Herro but they are the same age. Herro gets about 5mil more per year which would tend to mean that, all other things being equal, Simons would be more coveted on the trade market. Herro would add a tiny bit more length at 6’5”


2023 Simons vs Herro
Age 23. /. 23
Height 6’3. /. 6’5”
62 games. /. 67
35 min. /. 34.9
FGA 16.9. /. 16.7
FG% .447. /. .439
3PTA 9.1. /. 8.0
3PT% .377. /. .378
2PT% .528. /. .497
TRB 2.6. /. 5.4
AST 4.1. /. 4.2
FT% .894. /. .934
TOV 2.1. /. 2.4
PF 2.3. /. 1.4
PTS 21.1. /. 17.7
Ant makes about 25mil/year, Herro 30min/year

who’s better?
Who would be best fit swinging backup between Sharp & Scoot?
Who would get better return on the market?
 
Herro is a better player. The gap isn't big but it's there

Portland would be better off without either. Doesn't look like that's in Cronin's plan, which means Cronin has a flawed plan. Of course, contrary to Joe's platitudes about winning next season, I don't believe that's the goal
 
wizenheimer said:
Herro is a better player. The gap isn't big but it's there

Portland would be better off without either. Doesn't look like that's in Cronin's plan, which means Cronin has a flawed plan. Of course, contrary to Joe's platitudes about winning next season, I don't believe that's the goal
Click to expand...

Of course Cronin has to say they're trying to win. I'm sure there's a rule were you can't explicitly tank. The miami dolphins got fined and lost some draft picks for telling their coaches to lose on purpose.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
That is debatable since Herro has a negative wing span. Ant is technically 4 inches longer
Click to expand...
Both are negatives on D. Eye test saw some improvement from Simons but I didn’t really pay attention to Herro.
 
Herro played in a system with a lot more ball movement. I suspect Ant will be clearly better once he plays with a PG that is less ball dominant. We have seen it before when it comes to his 3P C&S stats. I suspect Ant will be a better player when all is said and done and given that he is cheaper, it's a no question for me.
 
wizenheimer said:
Herro is a better player. The gap isn't big but it's there

Portland would be better off without either. Doesn't look like that's in Cronin's plan, which means Cronin has a flawed plan. Of course, contrary to Joe's platitudes about winning next season, I don't believe that's the goal
Click to expand...
That's the big problem with the idea of a Miami deal. Their only valuable trade chip is basically the same player as a guy we want to trade. I'll be amazed if either of those guys is ever traded for someone over 6'8" that's useful. If you're less than 6'6" and you're not a transcendent player you don't seem to have trade value.
 
Wait a second....I think I made fun of myself too...
 
I'm not the biggest Ant fan but I'd stick with Ant over Herro..Ant tries on defense. Has some chemistry with Grant already.
 
Easy Ant keep (between the two) for me. Herro makes more and has T-Rex arms.
 
How many back-ups, 6th men — who are early in their career after starting for 2 years — average 20+ off the bench?
I expect Ant to start beside Scoot. Matisse and Grant at forwards. Nurkic at the 5. Sharpe plays starter minutes.

[I don’t see Portland caving or Miami paying up in a 4-teamer. No playoff team in the East wants to help Miami. Who wants Herro? Lillard will have to wait … and then it will open up by about January 15.]

How long before Toronto, Boston, Brooklyn, and Miami collectively blink after realizing they don’t have good enough PGs?

Portland has 3. (Ant is a combo.)
 
andalusian said:
Herro played in a system with a lot more ball movement. I suspect Ant will be clearly better once he plays with a PG that is less ball dominant. We have seen it before when it comes to his 3P C&S stats. I suspect Ant will be a better player when all is said and done and given that he is cheaper, it's a no question for me.
Click to expand...
That (better with more ball movement) I think will apply to the entire roster.
 
this faith that Portland will have better ball movement that will result in better offense is interesting to me

looking at Portland's offensive ratings and where they ranked in the Dame/Sotts era

2015-16 - 6th
2016-17 - 11th
2017-18 - 15th
2018-19 - 3rd
2019-20 - 3rd
2020-21 - 2nd

2021-22 - 27th
2022-23 - 18th

the thought of better ball movement might be more pleasing in the mind's eye, but I'm not sure it's going to be as successful as people imagine
 
I'm wondering if the team thinks Shaedon isn't ready to start and they're looking to run Scoot/Ant at the start of the season.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I'm wondering if the team thinks Shaedon isn't ready to start and they're looking to run Scoot/Ant at the start of the season.
Click to expand...
That's a real possibility...Scoot seems more mature than Shaedon and less hesitant.
 
Running Lillard and Ant with Thybulle, Grant and skinny Nurk — to start the season.
Scoot, Sharpe, Nas, Murray and Walker off the bench. (Names off the bench may be affected by trade or acquisition but not much)

Odds of this happening?
 
wizenheimer said:
this faith that Portland will have better ball movement that will result in better offense is interesting to me

looking at Portland's offensive ratings and where they ranked in the Dame/Sotts era

2015-16 - 6th
2016-17 - 11th
2017-18 - 15th
2018-19 - 3rd
2019-20 - 3rd
2020-21 - 2nd

2021-22 - 27th
2022-23 - 18th

the thought of better ball movement might be more pleasing in the mind's eye, but I'm not sure it's going to be as successful as people imagine
Click to expand...
I think you are confusing the effect of ball movement on specific players production and overall team efficiency.

The blazers ran through dame so much because he is one of the best players in the league to build an offense around.

You can still expect better individual performances from other players and a reduction in team efficiency.
 
mid-jonah.gif


They're both mid

Don't want either
 
Dame's sitting out for sure. Too proud to play at this stage in this debacle.
 
Driew said:
The miami dolphins got fined and lost some draft picks for telling their coaches to lose on purpose.
Click to expand...

They didn't.

They got fined and lost draft picks because they tampered with Tom Brady and Sean Payton. The coach they were looking to replace with Payton, Brian Flores, accused the Dolphins of offering him money to lose and also of racism because he was a Black coach (even though he eventually was replaced by a Black coach), but the NFL never verified Flores' allegations.
 
Cugel said:
Dame's sitting out for sure. Too proud to play at this stage in this debacle.
Click to expand...

A fundamental different p.o.v. of Lillard as a baller. He and Durant love hoops. Sitting it out would re-define his perceived persona.
 
wizenheimer said:
Herro is a better player. The gap isn't big but it's there

Portland would be better off without either. Doesn't look like that's in Cronin's plan, which means Cronin has a flawed plan. Of course, contrary to Joe's platitudes about winning next season, I don't believe that's the goal
Click to expand...
The goal will be to try to win. The losses will take care of themselves.
 
riverman said:
I'm not the biggest Ant fan but I'd stick with Ant over Herro..Ant tries on defense. Has some chemistry with Grant already.
Click to expand...
Herro rebounds at twice the rate as as Simons. If you are talking about a lineup with Grant, wouldn’t that be a key improvement?
 
Further said:
Everything we read is about shopping Herro for a pick and keeping Simons but is that the wrong move? Very similar stats, same age, both are SG who play some PG, Simons has been in the league 1 more year Herro but they are the same age. Herro gets about 5mil more per year which would tend to mean that, all other things being equal, Simons would be more coveted on the trade market. Herro would add a tiny bit more length at 6’5”


2023 Simons vs Herro
Age 23. /. 23
Height 6’3. /. 6’5”
62 games. /. 67
35 min. /. 34.9
FGA 16.9. /. 16.7
FG% .447. /. .439
3PTA 9.1. /. 8.0
3PT% .377. /. .378
2PT% .528. /. .497
TRB 2.6. /. 5.4
AST 4.1. /. 4.2
FT% .894. /. .934
TOV 2.1. /. 2.4
PF 2.3. /. 1.4
PTS 21.1. /. 17.7
Ant makes about 25mil/year, Herro 30min/year

who’s better?
Who would be best fit swinging backup between Sharp & Scoot?
Who would get better return on the market?
Click to expand...
7s9e7t.jpg
 
Further said:
Who would be best fit swinging backup between Sharp & Scoot?
Click to expand...

This question is key for me. And the answer is Simons. Although I do not like Ant as a true PG I do think he is better at running an offense than Herro. Maybe it's because Miami just hasn't allowed Herro to try to do it, but I doubt he can. So who do I think fits better with the 2nd unit when Scoot is on the bench.....it is Ant
 
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