OT Single-Payer Health Systems Suck

[Hoopguru]

This pan of Petes makes total since and would have a better chance of congress bi partisan approval.

"I mean, the reality is, all these beautiful proposals we all put forward, their impact is kind of multiplied by zero if you can't actually get it through Congress, and it's one of the reasons why I do favor the approach that I have," he said.Buttigieg would offerpublic health insurance to those who want itwhile also keeping private health care plans available. Other candidates' proposals, including "Medicare for All" — backed bySens. Bernie SandersandElizabeth Warren— would replace the current system with a single-payer, government-run program and eliminate private insurance altogether.
"We make sure that everybody can afford [public health insurance], but we don't require you to take it. And partly I think that's just the right policy, because I think people should be able to choose," he said. "But it's also really important that that's a policy that commands the support of most Americans. ... We have a moment where we can get something that big done and most Americans want it done. That's not true of some of the other ideas out there, which would make it much harder to actually achieve them no matter how good they sound in campaign season."

 

[drexlersdad]

we have a socialized war machine turning foreign children into dust every day. whenever we fly a 50MM drone over a grass roofed village and drop a million dollar bomb, that shit aint "free" either.

see, some people would rather we use that money for health care for children. education for children, food for children, etc.

i know, what a childish fantasy.

 

[drexlersdad]

This pan of Petes makes total since and would have a better chance of congress bi partisan approval.

"I mean, the reality is, all these beautiful proposals we all put forward, their impact is kind of multiplied by zero if you can't actually get it through Congress, and it's one of the reasons why I do favor the approach that I have," he said.Buttigieg would offerpublic health insurance to those who want itwhile also keeping private health care plans available. Other candidates' proposals, including "Medicare for All" — backed bySens. Bernie SandersandElizabeth Warren— would replace the current system with a single-payer, government-run program and eliminate private insurance altogether.
"We make sure that everybody can afford [public health insurance], but we don't require you to take it. And partly I think that's just the right policy, because I think people should be able to choose," he said. "But it's also really important that that's a policy that commands the support of most Americans. ... We have a moment where we can get something that big done and most Americans want it done. That's not true of some of the other ideas out there, which would make it much harder to actually achieve them no matter how good they sound in campaign season."

i find it very hard to believe the insurance cartel will allow bernie sanders to live long enough to try to implement any of his "kooky" ideas. guess we will see.

but the cry of "yeah it would be great, but the corrupt congress will never allow it, so vote for me instead" is depressingly accurate. we are all sold up the river.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Who's best suited to compare "single-payer" to the American model? Answer, people who've lived under both and experienced care under both. I lived for 20 years under the British NHS and 30 years under the American system. I am now an American citizen. And I can say without hesitation that the American system is a bizarre nightmare that only the people who get rich off it could possibly think is good. The NHS is superior in every way, including wait times (in my experience). Of course, it's not what it was, but when I was a kid we lived way out in the middle of the country at the end of a pot-hole ridden dirt track. When I was very sick with the flu, the doctor CAME TO OUR HOUSE to care for us. Didn't cost us a penny (other than what we paid in taxes, which wasn't much, because we weren't wealthy).
I have never understood Americans' bizarre love for this system that is designed only to make middlemen wealthy.

Please do not comment on "single payer" unless you have lived at least a decade under one. You are not qualified.

 

[drexlersdad]

Sorry but Im not, I realize what single payer is.
Single payer health insurance is a health insurance system financed by taxes that is managed and run by one entity, such as a government, providing essential health care to all citizens. It is referred to as single payer because it is the one entity (the government) that pays the costs (a "single payer").

Managed and run by Government. Bernie & EW have advocated to do away with any insurance option. I don't agree with that.
Why should I be forced to give up my insurance and doctor if Im willing to pay for it and rather have more options than what the gov paid, would allow.
Why are you so against a social medicare program for those that need it and yes paid by the government, and allow those who want to keep insurance and shop insurance. Shouldn't there be the freedom, todo both

if insurance shits the bed, im sure some doctors will still cater to the rich. you will still be able to find a reiki certified hot stone enima aura cleansing vegan nutritionist for your holistic penis implant surgery, you will just have to give them a sack full of gold up front.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

This guy nails it.

https://regiehammblog.wordpress.com/2020/02/27/birth-of-a-virus/

....China is back in the news with yet another deadly virus we are all wringing (and washing) our hands over. And I’m certain we’re more freaked out about it in the United States than they are in the epicenter of it. Trust me on this one. I’ve lived it.

If ONE American were to die of this virus, the marches will begin and the public outcry will be never-ending. Why? Because we are oriented to the individual, in this country. We believe – whether we practice it in our politics or want to admit it to ourselves – that one person makes a difference. And our government answers to us. We don’t answer to them.

Well, one American has died. Where are the marches?

"We are oriented to the individual" - an empty phrase from an empty head. To paraphrase a quote, "Whaddya mean "we", white man?"

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Who's best suited to compare "single-payer" to the American model? Answer, people who've lived under both and experienced care under both. I lived for 20 years under the British NHS and 30 years under the American system. I am now an American citizen. And I can say without hesitation that the American system is a bizarre nightmare that only the people who get rich off it could possibly think is good. The NHS is superior in every way, including wait times (in my experience). Of course, it's not what it was, but when I was a kid we lived way out in the middle of the country at the end of a pot-hole ridden dirt track. When I was very sick with the flu, the doctor CAME TO OUR HOUSE to care for us. Didn't cost us a penny (other than what we paid in taxes, which wasn't much, because we weren't wealthy).
I have never understood Americans' bizarre love for this system that is designed only to make middlemen wealthy.

Please do not comment on "single payer" unless you have lived at least a decade under one. You are not qualified.

So your argument is essentially no one can talk about it other then people who have similar experiences as you...? Really...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

So your argument is essentially no one can talk about it other then people who have similar experiences as you...? Really...

No, I'm saying something very simple that surely everyone can agree with: you can't tell which is better out of Pepsi or Coke unless you've tried both.

 

[drexlersdad]

No, I'm saying something very simple that surely everyone can agree with: you can't tell which is better out of Pepsi or Coke unless you've tried both.

but what if the news station i watch tells me that that drinking pepsi will lead to me starving to death, while i am waiting in line to be shot by a firing squad? surely they wouldnt lie about something as important as pepsi.

 

[Minstrel]

Sorry but Im not, I realize what single payer is.
Single payer health insurance is a health insurance system financed by taxes that is managed and run by one entity, such as a government, providing essential health care to all citizens. It is referred to as single payer because it is the one entity (the government) that pays the costs (a "single payer").

Managed and run by Government. Bernie & EW have advocated to do away with any insurance option. I don't agree with that.

You were responding to a post about health care and said it shouldn't be 100% controlled by the government. That's why I said you were confusing the two systems. Health care and health insurance are two separate things.

Why are you so against a social medicare program for those that need it and yes paid by the government, and allow those who want to keep insurance and shop insurance. Shouldn't there be the freedom, todo both

Who said I'm against it? The Canadian system is single payer but also allows for private supplementary insurance for anyone who wants to buy it. I think the Canadian system is just fine.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

No, I'm saying something very simple that surely everyone can agree with: you can't tell which is better out of Pepsi or Coke unless you've tried both.

Please do not comment on "single payer" unless you have livedat least a decade under one. You are not qualified.
Is literally what you said and ridiculous, guess no one can vote on what they want unless theyve had both. Guess all these Bernie people who have literally NEVER had medicare for all cant actually comment on if its better because how would they know. In fact any new ideas ever, cant discuss those because they havent been tried yet therefore we havent experienced both.

Im not disrespecting your experience, experience can be a good teacher, but its not the only teacher. This isnt coke and pepsi its ideologies and worldviews people can have opinions on those without having experience living under all of them.

 

[julius]

Who's best suited to compare "single-payer" to the American model? Answer, people who've lived under both and experienced care under both. I lived for 20 years under the British NHS and 30 years under the American system. I am now an American citizen. And I can say without hesitation that the American system is a bizarre nightmare that only the people who get rich off it could possibly think is good. The NHS is superior in every way, including wait times (in my experience). Of course, it's not what it was, but when I was a kid we lived way out in the middle of the country at the end of a pot-hole ridden dirt track. When I was very sick with the flu, the doctor CAME TO OUR HOUSE to care for us. Didn't cost us a penny (other than what we paid in taxes, which wasn't much, because we weren't wealthy).
I have never understood Americans' bizarre love for this system that is designed only to make middlemen wealthy.

My brother had a theory about that. The people who are upset about higher taxes for the rich are under the delusion that A: they will someday become rich or B: they are rich.

And the chances of either of those being true are slim.

Please do not comment on "single payer" unless you have lived at least a decade under one. You are not qualified.

Even if we support the idea?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

My brother had a theory about that. The people who are upset about higher taxes for the rich are under the delusion that A: they will someday become rich or B: they are rich.

And the chances of either of those being true are slim.



Even if we support the idea?

No of course not, you support the idea so you agree with him. Its a tactic to say well if you dont agree with me you cant talk about it, and you should just agree with me because my anecdotal experience says mines bigger... better.

 

[drexlersdad]

No of course not, you support the idea so you agree with him. Its a tactic to say well if you dont agree with me you cant talk about it, and you should just agree with me because my anecdotal experience says mines bigger... better.

to be fair, people tend to articulate their opinions as facts when they are debating on the internet.

i think it was just his clumsy way of saying "hey, i really hate to interject any negativity into your deeply enthralling and nuanced health-onomic analysis, but, in my actual life, i have experienced both systems, and it is rather obvious to me that you dont know what the fuck you are talking about".

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

to be fair, people tend to articulate their opinions as facts when they are debating on the internet.

i think it was just his clumsy way of saying "hey, i really hate to interject any negativity into your deeply enthralling and nuanced health-onomic analysis, but, in my actual life, i have experienced both systems, and it is rather obvious to me that you dont know what the fuck you are talking about".

I think its absolutely fair for him to say hey Ive experienced both and this is my opinion of the two. I just thought his logic at the end was like not good and basically shuts off all dialogue...

Anyways @Rastapopoulos I should apologize for coming off so strong on this. I do respect your opinions and experiences even if we disagree. I think I over reacted and I’ll bow out of this one.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Please do not comment on "single payer" unless you have livedat least a decade under one. You are not qualified.
Is literally what you said and ridiculous, guess no one can vote on what they want unless theyve had both. Guess all these Bernie people who have literally NEVER had medicare for all cant actually comment on if its better because how would they know. In fact any new ideas ever, cant discuss those because they havent been tried yet therefore we havent experienced both.

They want single payer because they've experienced the American system and decided "ANYTHING BUT THAT"

Im not disrespecting your experience, experience can be a good teacher, but its not the only teacher. This isnt coke and pepsi its ideologies and worldviews people can have opinions on those without having experience living under all of them.

No, it's not ideologies or worldviews. It's healthcare.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

My brother had a theory about that. The people who are upset about higher taxes for the rich are under the delusion that A: they will someday become rich or B: they are rich.

What's the quote? "America is a nation of temporary embarrassed millionaires"?

 

[Hoopguru]

You were responding to a post about health care and said it shouldn't be 100% controlled by the government. That's why I said you were confusing the two systems. Health care and health insurance are two separate things.



Who said I'm against it? The Canadian system is single payer but also allows for private supplementary insurance for anyone who wants to buy it. I think the Canadian system is just fine.

I thought you endorsed Bernie & EW's plan of Gov paid only.

 

[Hoopguru]

You were responding to a post about health care and said it shouldn't be 100% controlled by the government. That's why I said you were confusing the two systems. Health care and health insurance are two separate things.



Who said I'm against it? The Canadian system is single payer but also allows for private supplementary insurance for anyone who wants to buy it. I think the Canadian system is just fine.

As long as there is an option to purchase my own insurance and decide for myself what doctor I can see and when, Im fine with single payer.

 

[Minstrel]

I thought you endorsed Bernie & EW's plan of Gov paid only.

I like the idea of single-payer, a lot of the details are negotiable, IMO.

As long as there is an option to purchase my own insurance and decide for myself what doctor I can see and when, Im fine with single payer.

Even if there were no private insurance, you'd be able to choose your own doctor. The idea of not being able to see a certain doctor is part of the current insurance system, where doctors are either in your network or not covered. In any single-payer system, any licensed doctor would be covered--there aren't "networks" in a single-payer system.

 

[Hoopguru]

I like the idea of single-payer, a lot of the details are negotiable, IMO.



Even if there were no private insurance, you'd be able to choose your own doctor. The idea of not being able to see a certain doctor is part of the current insurance system, where doctors are either in your network or not covered. In any single-payer system, any licensed doctor would be covered--there aren't "networks" in a single-payer system.

When I fist became medicare eligible I discovered many doctors would not take on medicare only patients, including my own as the Gov was not easy to deal with in regards to payment schedules and administration screw ups, according to him. I use a medicare advantage plan that has been very reasonable to me and worth the additional paid, imo.

 

[Hoopguru]

if insurance shits the bed, im sure some doctors will still cater to the rich. you will still be able to find a reiki certified hot stone enima aura cleansing vegan nutritionist for your holistic penis implant surgery, you will just have to give them a sack full of gold up front.

That takes place in socialist run countries. They managed the mass and market to the high end segment. Keeps the commie pinko's at the very top wealthy and their bellies full.

 

[MARIS61]

What that seems to say to me is that only rich people should be able to get the best health care. That’s what he’s saying.

Where did he say that, I can't find any reference to such a thing.

 

[MARIS61]

My brother had a theory about that. The people who are upset about higher taxes for the rich are under the delusion that A: they will someday become rich or B: they are rich.

The people who are not upset about higher taxes for the rich are under the delusion that the rich can be taxed.

All taxes are always paid by the working class. It is idiotic and a wasted effort to pretend it can be changed. Prices of goods and services are raised and wage increases and benefits are slowed or ceased.

Medicare for all is basically history's largest tax cut for corporations, completely cancelling their expensive healthcare benefits to their employees, legalizing an enormous cut to employees benefits already negotiated.

 

[jonnyboy]

Honestly how is the current system any better than a single payer one? It’s completely corrupt, for profit and does more harm than good. It’s not ‘socialism’ to call out flat out corruption and want your tax dollars to not get misappropriated. The wealthier half of the country is worried about waiting a little longer in line while millions of people are incurring medical debts they will never be free of. Seems a bit selfish considering most of our tax dollars go into and bottomless military pit that nothing good has ever come out of, and Medicare for all would cost a fraction of that. The idea that young people in this country face the prospect of never owning a home or business because they committed the crime of having a medical emergency is bullshit. If all the hardcore capitalists out there think creating an entire generation of debt slaves is gonna be good for the economy, think again.

 

[barfo]

That takes place in socialist run countries. They managed the mass and market to the high end segment. Keeps the commie pinko's at the very top wealthy and their bellies full.

My belly is full. This must be a socialist run country.

barfo

 

[Minstrel]

What qualifies a country as "socialist run?" Did the US become a socialist-run nation after FDR's New Deal, or after LBJ's Great Society?

If we're still a "capitalist run" nation, it seems we can handle a little socialism in our, uh, society without turning red.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

What qualifies a country as "socialist run?" Did the US become a socialist-run nation after FDR's New Deal, or after LBJ's Great Society?

If we're still a "capitalist run" nation, it seems we can handle a little socialism in our, uh, society without turning red.

We are a crony capitalist country. A mix of big government and big corporations scratching each others back.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[ABM]

What qualifies a country as "socialist run?" Did the US become a socialist-run nation after FDR's New Deal, or after LBJ's Great Society?

If we're still a "capitalist run" nation, it seems we can handle a little socialism in our, uh, society without turning red.

Personally, I'm OK with a little socialism. That being a far cry from an uber socialist President. The Green New Deal is in socialist's BS's dreams nearby!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...he-green-new-deal-so-regressive/#7bbc050210c4