These are the kind of bold moves Drury needs to swing for if we want to be back near the top next season and have a legit shot at winning the Cup. Until I see him pull off a trade for a guy like this, I don't think he has the strategic mindset or skillset to get it done.
Smith off to Vegas again
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Stepupstepan
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Yep Drury played safe as always.
He is horrific. He is afraid, he has no balls, he has zero creativity. He is in WAY over his head. He did the worst possible thing, which was play it safe as usual, and did essentially nothing.
Please fire this useless guy already.
Stepupstepan
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Looks Florida is getting Marchand like they really needed him lol
theProdigy223
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Let's take a step back here. I don't think it's fair to judge the entirety of this season's work on a 1 week period.
- He traded away the team's captain (not a pending UFA), got back a guy that was buried but has proven to be serviceable on the bottom pair. Extended him for cheap.
- He placed a team leader who wore an A (not a pending UFA) on waivers, and got out of a bad cap hit for free.
- He traded away a stagnating former top prospect (not a pending UFA) and got back a guy none of us were very familiar with but has proven to be a very steady 2nd pairing guy that can skate, hold his own physically, and has puck skills. Extended him for a reasonable cap hit.
- He traded away a young up-and-coming center (not a pending UFA) and got back a legit top of the line-up player that instantly changed the makeup of the forward group.
- He combined two of the pending UFAs to maximize return and get back not just draft picks but also a young player at a position of need that, like Urho, can potentially turn into a useful piece. Time will tell.
I have no gripes with any of these moves. All of these moves are definitely creative, and took some balls. To me, they are not the moves of a GM that is in over his head. You can call Drury lots of things (you have), but I dont think it's fair to say he is afraid, has no balls, and has no creativity.
We were also never going to turn over the entire team during the season. Let's see what happens this summer.
The biggest concern for me is I see this becoming like the Hank prime years. Good to great goaltending, good overall team but not great and not good enough to win it all. Good enough to make the playoffs every year, good enough to win a round or two, but not win the Cup. And because of that our draft picks won’t ever be high enough to make a difference and we have too much money tied up in a goalie and aging players with NTC and NMC. Rangers recipe calls for rinse and repeat.
Here's how I see it.
He traded away the captain AFTER he totally f'd things up by jerking him around last summer, which is a huge reason he sucked to start the season, and why the team has had a down year. Agreed the move he made dealing Trouba was a plus by subtraction, but Drury totally f'd up with how it was handled.
I liked the Goodrow move. But he did essentially nothing else last summer outside of overpaying for Smith. I also liked the Miller trade as well as I have said many times. I have never said the guy hasn't made one good move since he's been here, but they are few and far between. And what about the fact that he kept this stale, old, broken down done core together as he did nothing last summer.
I say this so respectfully Prod, so please don't come back fiery, I think this is a good discussion, but we seem to have this debate every trade DL or summer, and we are always on opposite sides. I knock Drury for his crap, you defend him for his 2nd rate moves. I think results and his overall pile of crap has clearly proven me right. He is bad at his job and needs to be fired immediately.
I never said every single move he has made is bad, but a large % are, and most importantly the team has gotten worse and worse with him as Pres/GM.
I think you are being nice here. The team has gotten worse and worse. If they make the playoffs this season it will be barely, and they will be out early. His lack of doing anything last trade DL or during the summer was criminal, as was keeping the old, stale, done core together. He is a disgrace as a Pres/GM, and again I have been saying it since day one when he got the job.
I do 1000% agree with your last line Prod, let's see what he does this summer. The team needs an overhaul. If at least one of Fox, K. Miller, Panarin, Kreider, or Zibanejad aren't gone then Drury can go F himself. Now the can is kicked down the road yet again by Drury, let's look to next summer. I highly doubt anything changes with afraid to make big moves Chris Drury.
theProdigy223
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This is for sure a concern. There have been improvements, JTM was a huge step in the right direction in terms of talent and playing style to help us get over that hump. I guess if I'm looking for a positive, when you have the expensive goalie and the NMCs you need a constant supply of cheap youth to fill roles and you need to identify and secure reasonable role players. Bottom of the lineup guys like Carrick and Urho are way better than the trash we used to watch on the 4th line and 3rd pair, and guys like Edstrom and Berard (soon Skyora) can fill bottom 6 roles on ELCs.
But if something bigger doesnt happen this summer to the core then I agree we could likely end up stuck int he limbo you identified.
theProdigy223
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No need for me to be fiery. You aren't telling me to blow it out my ass or calling me a retard like some.
Last summer was tough. I disagree that Drury jerked Trouba around. Drury asked for a trade list. Trouba responded by deliberately throwing sand in the gears, using his agent to broadcast his desire to stay put, then - in his own words - essentially bailing on the team. Drury is totally open for criticism for allowing it to get to that point and fester but it was far more complicated than Drury jerking Trouba around and deciding to do nothing. But we don't need to re-litigate this. I think the summer turns out much differently had that not happened.
Almost every trade he made this year I think has been a good one, in that they are bringing us in the right direction. Soucy I'm not sure about but the rest get a thumbs up from me. The JTM deal was massive. We shouldn't undersell that.
Of course, it could all be tanked by how the Igor extension holds up. It'll be very important to have a big summer because that could end up being a ticking time bomb a few years from now. This team for sure took a step back from last year's but I agree with Drury's approach that instead of trying to band-aid it let's build something out that has a 3ish year window before things really get hairy.
BTW - I am far from a Drury fan but yes I do find myself defending him more often than not.
No one loved the Miller trade more than I did, and I gave Drury big kudos for that. But outside of that move and a few other okay moves, he has a whole lot of crap.
And I will continue to feel very strongly his lack of making an impact move at the trade DL last season is one of the worst dereliction of duties ever. It does perplex me how more fans in here aren't infuriated by Drury's utter failure at the trade DL. The team was right there to win a Cup, and he did essentially nothing but add some bit players.
Then he compounds it by doing absolutely nothing this past summer. I said it over and over again, this stale, old, done core needed to be broken up, it was so obvious to everyone except Drury. I am perplexed how people aren't infuriated by that as well.
Think about this, he essentially traded 2nd and 5th round picks for Soucy, a 3rd pair dman that I promise you will be given the Smith treatment and be asked to play in a role he isn't good enough for. He will be our 1st pair LD with Fox next season, that was just about locked in for sure after he re-signed Urho today. Our D next season will be Soucy, Fox, Miller, Borgen, Urho, and Schneider. Mark it down. All are signed outside of Miller, who I am sure they will bring back as a RFA.
The Trouba thing was bush league. Drury totally mishandled that situation. You don't get to the 1/2-yard line without knowing if the player will go there, and to make things worse it's leaked to the media, which F'd Trouba up mentally and killed team chemistry as Drury was forced to hold him to start the season. At the very best it was extremely mishandled by Drury, and at the worst it was total incompetence.
I am normally not a guy who complains about coaches and GM's, but from the second Drury was hired as Pres/GM I went off because I knew this guy was in over his head. He did not deserve those roles, period. He was not ready to do the jobs, and we are all suffering as a result of his incompetence. The team has gotten progressively worse since he's been here, and it will continue I feel as he does not have the skillset or balls to make the moves needed to shake things up.
Now the can gets kicked down the road to another move period, this July. Gets an F for the trade DL last season, gets an F for his lack of moves last summer, gets a C for his moves this trade DL (I am counting Miller in that mix), now we'll see if he can avoid another F this coming July.
It is a very simple litmus test to me, if Kreider, Panarin, Zibanejad, K. Miller, and Fox are all on this team come October, it will be another F for Drury, and actually at this point it will be an F-. He must grow a set and make some big moves with at least one of those guys. He is a train wreck at his job IMO.
And I will continue to feel very strongly his lack of making an impact move at the trade DL last season is one of the worst dereliction of duties ever. It does perplex me how more fans in here aren't infuriated by Drury's utter failure at the trade DL. The team was right there to win a Cup, and he did essentially nothing but add some bit players.
Then he compounds it by doing absolutely nothing this past summer. I said it over and over again, this stale, old, done core needed to be broken up, it was so obvious to everyone except Drury. I am perplexed how people aren't infuriated by that as well.
Think about this, he essentially traded 2nd and 5th round picks for Soucy, a 3rd pair dman that I promise you will be given the Smith treatment and be asked to play in a role he isn't good enough for. He will be our 1st pair LD with Fox next season, that was just about locked in for sure after he re-signed Urho today. Our D next season will be Soucy, Fox, Miller, Borgen, Urho, and Schneider. Mark it down. All are signed outside of Miller, who I am sure they will bring back as a RFA.
The Trouba thing was bush league. Drury totally mishandled that situation. You don't get to the 1/2-yard line without knowing if the player will go there, and to make things worse it's leaked to the media, which F'd Trouba up mentally and killed team chemistry as Drury was forced to hold him to start the season. At the very best it was extremely mishandled by Drury, and at the worst it was total incompetence.
I am normally not a guy who complains about coaches and GM's, but from the second Drury was hired as Pres/GM I went off because I knew this guy was in over his head. He did not deserve those roles, period. He was not ready to do the jobs, and we are all suffering as a result of his incompetence. The team has gotten progressively worse since he's been here, and it will continue I feel as he does not have the skillset or balls to make the moves needed to shake things up.
Now the can gets kicked down the road to another move period, this July. Gets an F for the trade DL last season, gets an F for his lack of moves last summer, gets a C for his moves this trade DL (I am counting Miller in that mix), now we'll see if he can avoid another F this coming July.
It is a very simple litmus test to me, if Kreider, Panarin, Zibanejad, K. Miller, and Fox are all on this team come October, it will be another F for Drury, and actually at this point it will be an F-. He must grow a set and make some big moves with at least one of those guys. He is a train wreck at his job IMO.
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PorterPanzer
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Aside from Lester Patrick the first Rangers GM who won 3 Cups in 6 years and Neil Smith, who has done a better job at GM than Drury in the last 30 years? If you superimposed Sather's name over Drury's in your posts you'd be speaking truth Chuck because Sather was a disaster. Gorton is the classic definition of a guy in over his head but plays it off like he knows something the rest of us don't - forget Drury trading away 3rd rounders Jeff flubbed 4 #1s. If you're looking to lay blame this year it's on Lav, his coaches and the top line players who are all having significantly lower production seasons.
I think you can make a pretty good case that outside of Smith, the Rangers GMs have been awful for decades, and even Smith had a lot of bad moves, but gets the nod as being good due to winning a Cup, which is fair IMO.
The real question is what does this all have in common for the past few decades, James Dolan. He has not done a good job as owner, and even if you say he stays out of hockey decisions, he still hires the Pres/GM's and they have not been good (he is even worse as the Knicks owner if possible as he got more involved until Rose).
As for Lav, we'll very strongly disagree there. I have said many times you can absolutely fire him for this mess, a coach 100% deserves accountability, but make no mistake about it, I firmly believe this is on Drury way more than anyone else. He's the one who f'd up the Trouba situation, he's the one who brought back the same old stale done core, not Lav. That doesn't mean Lav is free of responsibility, he is not, and I have not liked some of his playing time and line decisions, but when dishing out blame/responsibility, I believe Lav is WAY behind Drury in that department, not even close.
I will also add respectfully, here is where I think you are being inconsistent Panzer. You are a Gallant guy, and said he shouldn't have been fired for the mess in his 2nd year, it's the fat cat whiny players, and BTW I agree with the last part. BUT at the same time, with the same players you want to blame Lav for the issues in his 2nd season? It just isn't consistent. The constant here is Drury, and his terrible decisions and keeping this whiny old stale core, he is the main culprit and should be fired (two coaches same Pres/GM). If you want to fire Lav also, go for it, but if Lav goes and Drury stays, just like with Gallant, it won't matter because Drury is in over his head and awful.
The real question is what does this all have in common for the past few decades, James Dolan. He has not done a good job as owner, and even if you say he stays out of hockey decisions, he still hires the Pres/GM's and they have not been good (he is even worse as the Knicks owner if possible as he got more involved until Rose).
As for Lav, we'll very strongly disagree there. I have said many times you can absolutely fire him for this mess, a coach 100% deserves accountability, but make no mistake about it, I firmly believe this is on Drury way more than anyone else. He's the one who f'd up the Trouba situation, he's the one who brought back the same old stale done core, not Lav. That doesn't mean Lav is free of responsibility, he is not, and I have not liked some of his playing time and line decisions, but when dishing out blame/responsibility, I believe Lav is WAY behind Drury in that department, not even close.
I will also add respectfully, here is where I think you are being inconsistent Panzer. You are a Gallant guy, and said he shouldn't have been fired for the mess in his 2nd year, it's the fat cat whiny players, and BTW I agree with the last part. BUT at the same time, with the same players you want to blame Lav for the issues in his 2nd season? It just isn't consistent. The constant here is Drury, and his terrible decisions and keeping this whiny old stale core, he is the main culprit and should be fired (two coaches same Pres/GM). If you want to fire Lav also, go for it, but if Lav goes and Drury stays, just like with Gallant, it won't matter because Drury is in over his head and awful.
PorterPanzer
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2 Conference finals in 3 years is awful? You hate on Drury like he ran your dog over and didn't stop to tell you. Drury's fault, not Lav's the team leads the NHL in too many men penalties and the PP has become so predictable and plodding that 2 man advantages prove to be a tough challenge? Still waiting for you to name the guy you would have hired instead of Drury.
I listed guys, but if you want me to name random GM's I rather have, I can certainly do that as well. My answer to that question is MANY GM's I rather have than Drury.
You also didn't comment on the clear lack of consistency you are showing with Lav/Gallant.
It wasn't Gallant's fault; it was the fat cat whiny players. It is Lav's fault despite the same fat cat whiny players. Not very consistent.
What is consistent/constant is the guy who put together/kept together those fat cat whiny players, Chris Drury.
Good discussion, but we should just agree to disagree on this. Like I said in the other thread, you think Drury has done well here, I don't. That's fair to have a difference of opinion.
You also didn't comment on the clear lack of consistency you are showing with Lav/Gallant.
It wasn't Gallant's fault; it was the fat cat whiny players. It is Lav's fault despite the same fat cat whiny players. Not very consistent.
What is consistent/constant is the guy who put together/kept together those fat cat whiny players, Chris Drury.
Good discussion, but we should just agree to disagree on this. Like I said in the other thread, you think Drury has done well here, I don't. That's fair to have a difference of opinion.
kreidertime
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I think what Drury did was sneaky smart. He created some cap space. He took a smaller defense that was average to below average with defensive IQ and got them much bigger and much better with their defensive IQ at a decent cost. He added a couple 23 to 24 year-old centers who have upside and might turn into something. He got an impact player in Miller at a very light cost. Washington might be one of the biggest if not the biggest teams in the league and they didn’t push the Rangers around at all last game. Othmann developing is key. They are also gonna need to add a scoring winger under 30 next season because Kreider looks like he is shot.
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I would say since he now has addressed the D with Soucy, whether you like it or not he'll be a top 4 dman next season, the biggest need this summer is a legit scoring winger to play in the top 6. That should be the # 1 priority. That along with Othmann developing are big keys for next season, I agree. And maybe even Perreault getting a chance.
theProdigy223
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We have no way of knowing that will be the case. Drury went out of his way in his press conference to say Soucy could fit with any of the right hand guys, or even play the right side himself. Who’s to say that Schneider isn’t traded for a LD stud - perhaps to BUF - then our third pair is Vakk-Soucy? Or even Soucy being part of a deal himself in the offseason.
Let’s let this play out. If Soucy is on our first pair next year’s opening night or anyone declares that is the plan, I will be pissed. That has not happened yet.
theProdigy223
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Soucy puts one in just for Chuck !!
You are absolutely correct, no one knows for sure. But when I see him re-sign Urho, which would be the spot I would have hoped Soucy will fill next season AND combine that with the Rangers now have six NHL dmen signed for next season (I am counting Miller since he's an RFA not a UFA), the math leads you to the six dmen are set: Soucy, Fox, Miller, Borgen, Urho, Schneider.
Now it is certainly possible Drury deals one of those six dmen before next season and brings in a legit top pair LD, which I said was clearly their biggest need prior to adding Soucy and re-signing Urho, which unfortunately I think ended the hope of adding a top pair LD.
With that said, I will believe Drury will deal a core guy when I see it. Considering they just re-signed/traded for Borgen, Soucy, and Urho I don't see those guys going. If I were to bet, I'd say Miller would be the most likely guy to go, but I highly doubt it happens.
But yes, you are spot on, a dman could be traded, and Soucy could be on the 3rd pair, which is where he belongs. We'll find out in July.