So who just played their last game as a Blazer?

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Noah is the only one I think will be moved. If someone has a TPE then he makes just enough to get us out of the hole for one more year, correct? We may even send a 2nd for someone to take him on. Any other deal will be in the summer imo.
 
TBpup said:
When he first signed his contract. He was jumping up and down so hard from surprise at the size of the contract he strained it.
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On good source, it happened while playing Dance Dance Revolution.
 
BrianFromWA said:
It sends a message that the guys on the team can't pull it off, but some outsider can? Giving up draft picks and useful players for someone to clean up a mistake? Put another way, what would Dame think if we'd given up Patty C and Zach and Ed to get rid of Crabbe's contract? How competitive would our team be then?

Players have said multiple times (both the traded-for and the team they come to) that it's super-disruptive to go through a midseason trade. Sure, if we were giving up half our team for Kawhi or something it may be worth it. Hell, the Thunder still aren't gelling with Melo and PG added to RW, and they're 2/3 of the way into the season. Why would you want to remove chemistry and change up lives for "someone minor"?

Out of curiosity, who is the last player traded for midseason, that we gave up a 1st for, who was worth it? I'll even help out with a list:
1) Afflalo and Gee for Barton, TRob, Claver and a 1st. (2015)
2) Crash for a 2011 and 2013 1st, Cunningham, Marks, Przybilla (big win b/c we turned Crash into Dame in 1 year, but hurt our draft classes) (2011)

Vice, when we had space:
1) Getting a 2021 pick for Brian Roberts' absorption (meh, but ok)
2) Getting CLE's pick (that became Swanigan) for Varejao's absorption (good deal, though tempered by having a 1.9M cap hit for the entirety of Dame's/CJ's contract)
3) Eric Maynor for a TPE (meh, but serviceable backup for a bit)

Vice, when we were sellers:
1) Plumlee for Nurk and a 1st (good deal, even if it's just for 1 more year of a cheap, serviceable center and a pick that allowed us to move up to target Zach).
2) Camby for Jonny Flynn, Hasheem Thabeet, a conditional 2012 2nd round pick (MIN own) and a TPE. (2012) (lots of meh here)
3) Crash for Okur, Williams and 1st that became Dame (big win)


What about big-time buyers throughout recent NBA history?
MIL 2003: Trading prime Ray Allen and a 1st for Gary Payton. Fail.
DET 2004: Lots of role players and a 1st for Sheed. Big win.
LAL 2008: Trading 2 1sts, salary space and the rights to M. Gasol (who hadn't come to NBA yet) for Pau. Win-win, as LAL went to 3 Finals in a row and kept K*be happy, and MEM got Gasol. Of note, if M. Gasol didn't unprecedentedly blow up into a star, this would've been a colossal fail for MEM as Greivis Vasquez and Done Greene, the 2 late 1sts they got, didn't make anyone forget Pau.)
LAC 2011: Paying an unprotected 1st to get Mo Williams and to get rid of Baron Davis' contract. Mo left quickly, and the pick became #1 (Kyrie). (Neil Olshey special):
Mo started 23 games for the Clips. Kyrie is Kyrie.

NYK 2012: Melo-drama I. Lots of players and picks, and I'm sure that NYK will say they did well with it, but I keep wondering how many of those young players they regretted giving up, to never go past the 2nd round?
BOS 2015: Trading a 1st and Marcus Thornton for Isaiah Thomas. Seemed to work out OK for BOS, and PHX used it (Skal Labissiere) to move up from 13 to 8 and draft Marquis Chriss.

Sellers usually do ok (we've done quite well). Taking up space is meh, but brings in some assets. Being buyers, we have overpaid. If we didn't have Billy King around to give us Dame for Crash, both of those "buy" deals look pretty horrendous, as does NO's buy of Mo Williams in 2011.

tl;dr, don't be buyers for the sake of being buyers. Don't attach draft capital to get rid of bad players.
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Hey, I am not saying the reality is nice. But the way we are talking around here it's like, re-sign the few roster players we can, make the few draft picks we have and just get younger. Basically, which is what we've been doing forever. I am not saying that I don't think Dame will just sit in the corner and buy that.... no matter how much we pay him. And no matter if we keep the friends together. At some point he is going to say, "But I said I'd win a championship here?" And his agent will say, "Hey, you asked them if they were dedicated to building a championship team. Where are we now?!" I am just saying, I don't think we can take it for granted that Dame will be here in three years. You don't have to do something for the sake of doing something. But you have to make changes when you're obviously on a treadmill and the model for building a team is not working.
 
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BrianFromWA said:
Players have said multiple times (both the traded-for and the team they come to) that it's super-disruptive to go through a midseason trade. Sure, if we were giving up half our team for Kawhi or something it may be worth it. Hell, the Thunder still aren't gelling with Melo and PG added to RW, and they're 2/3 of the way into the season. Why would you want to remove chemistry and change up lives for "someone minor"?
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As Sonic GM in 1986-94, Bob Whitsitt reinvigorated the team at some Trade Deadlines. These were big improvements.

1988 got Sedale Threatt for Sam Vincent
1990 Steve Johnson for Brad Sellars
1991 Ricky Pierce for Dale Ellis
1991 Benoit Benjamin for Olden Polynice and picks #22 and 27
1993 Sam Perkins for Benoit Benjamin and pick #17 Doug Christie, who wouldn't sign

Edit: My point is, they seemed minor when done, but paid off big. This, of course, requires a GM who sees hidden gems. Bulls head coach Doug Collins was all over himself laughing at how his team had screwed the Sonics. Then Threatt produced and Vincent didn't. The Lakers thought that Perkins had one foot in the grave.
 
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ripcityboy said:
Hey, I am not saying the reality is nice. But the way we are talking around here it's like, resign the players we have, make the few draft picks we have and just get younger. Basically, which is what we've been doing forever.
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But that's actually my point. We haven't been doing that. Something bad happens (Sheed leaves and the JailBlazers implode, the whole 2005 era, Oden getting hurt, Roy getting hurt, LMA leaving with the entire lineup, etc.) and we get young. Whether the Telfair/Zbo/Ha days, or Roy/Batum/LMA/Oden, or Dame/CJ, we at some point bottom out with one of the youngest teams in the league. And attempt, for a second, to try letting the cake bake. But then the unexpected happens. We go on a 13-game winning streak. We make it to the 2nd round. We win 54 games and lead the West the next year for a bit, we come upon some cap space...and forget about cakes baking in order to try to out-shiny-object the other teams. I, for one, based upon our recent history, would love to "resign the (good and useful) players we have (to good and useful contracts), make the draft picks we have instead of sending them out for the veteran du jour, and grow older as a unit, not piecemeal and step-function as we dump talent to get "veteran talent". We haven't done that yet.

I am not saying that I don't think Dame will just sit in the corner and buy that.... no matter how much we pay him. And no matter if we keep the Gang together. At some point he is going to say, "But I said I'd win a championship here?" And his agent will say, "Hey, you asked them if they were dedicated to building a championship team." I am just saying, I don't think we can take it for granted that Dame will be here in three years.
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I don't have a problem with your take, necessarily. And I agree that we can't guarantee Dame being here longer than 3 years. Where I'd disagree (cordially) with you is that a) I don't see any realistic move that some other team is going to bail us out this trade deadline for one of our mistakes, without giving up waaaay more than I'd personally prefer (now, Mo and a 2nd for an expiring or a young player, or Noah going away for basically free, may happen); and b) I think Dame is much more against the Olshey plan and more like the one I detailed above. B/c in other years, Ed would've gone away almost immediately to reduce space. Hell, NO may still be looking at moving him. But Dame recognizes that you need role players and continuity and chemistry.
 
BrianFromWA said:
But that's actually my point. We haven't been doing that. Something bad happens (Sheed leaves and the JailBlazers implode, the whole 2005 era, Oden getting hurt, Roy getting hurt, LMA leaving with the entire lineup, etc.) and we get young. Whether the Telfair/Zbo/Ha days, or Roy/Batum/LMA/Oden, or Dame/CJ, we at some point bottom out with one of the youngest teams in the league. And attempt, for a second, to try letting the cake bake. But then the unexpected happens. We go on a 13-game winning streak. We make it to the 2nd round. We win 54 games and lead the West the next year for a bit, we come upon some cap space...and forget about cakes baking in order to try to out-shiny-object the other teams. I, for one, based upon our recent history, would love to "resign the (good and useful) players we have (to good and useful contracts), make the draft picks we have instead of sending them out for the veteran du jour, and grow older as a unit, not piecemeal and step-function as we dump talent to get "veteran talent". We haven't done that yet.


I don't have a problem with your take, necessarily. And I agree that we can't guarantee Dame being here longer than 3 years. Where I'd disagree (cordially) with you is that a) I don't see any realistic move that some other team is going to bail us out this trade deadline for one of our mistakes, without giving up waaaay more than I'd personally prefer (now, Mo and a 2nd for an expiring or a young player, or Noah going away for basically free, may happen); and b) I think Dame is much more against the Olshey plan and more like the one I detailed above. B/c in other years, Ed would've gone away almost immediately to reduce space. Hell, NO may still be looking at moving him. But Dame recognizes that you need role players and continuity and chemistry.
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Then I am amazed we aren't more frustrated than we actually are. Without free agency we are like a mouse in a cage that goes in for the piece of cheese only to find nothing at the end of it. The only thing this franchise is rewarded with is more of the same. Frustration. Letting the cake bake is essentially saying, let time be the arbiter of our fortunes. Well, if you know anything about time and associated athletics in Oregon, they don't have a great track record together. Athletes and coaches that leave for better pastures do though.
 
ripcityboy said:
Then I am amazed we aren't more frustrated than we actually are. Without free agency we are like a mouse in a cage that goes in for the piece of cheese only to find nothing at the end of it. The only thing this franchise is rewarded with is more of the same. Frustration. Letting the cake bake is essentially saying, let time be the arbiter of our fortunes. Well, if you know anything about time and associated athletics in Oregon, they don't have a great track record together. Athletes and coaches that leave for better pastures do though.
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So if FA never works, trades as buyers generally don't work, and you don't like the time method....we're kind of out of ways to improve, man.
 
BrianFromWA said:
So if FA never works, trades as buyers generally don't work, and you don't like the time method....we're kind of out of ways to improve, man.
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"I speak for all mediocrities in the world. I am their champion."
 
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My guess is Harmless and Napier are gone

My hope is CJ to Cavs for Love and the Nets pick. With that trade we would lock up 2 top 10 picks(maybe higher) in a loaded draft to pair with the 20 and 23 year olds in our frontcourt.

Imagine if us and the nets really sucked down the stretch(which would be very possible after that trade since Love is out)and we ended up with 2 top 5-7 picks

Nurk/Davis
Love/Collins
Porter(draft pick)/Turner
Donic(draft pick)/Pat
Dame/Napier

In 2 years the starters would be

Nurk(25)
Collins(22)
Porter(22)
Donic(21)
Dame(29)

Yes it’s a lot of “ifs” but I know what happens if shit stays status-quo.
 
LayneStaley said:
My guess is Harmless and Napier are gone

My hope is CJ to Cavs for Love and the Nets pick. With that trade we would lock up 2 top 10 picks(maybe higher) in a loaded draft to pair with the 20 and 23 year olds in our frontcourt.

Imagine if us and the nets really sucked down the stretch(which would be very possible after that trade since Love is out)and we ended up with 2 top 5-7 picks

Nurk/Davis
Love/Collins
Porter(draft pick)/Turner
Donic(draft pick)/Pat
Dame/Napier

In 2 years the starters would be

Nurk(25)
Collins(22)
Porter(22)
Donic(21)
Dame(29)

Yes it’s a lot of “ifs” but I know what happens if shit stays status-quo.
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No you don't. That's what's fun about sports. We don't know how things will play out. There are too many variables. We have a legit shot at the #3 seed and there is a lot of basketball left to be played. I'd rather have our roster than SA's or OKC's and we can beat both in playoffs. Houston doesn't scare me either. Fool's gold.
 
KingSpeed said:
No you don't. That's what's fun about sports. We don't know how things will play out. There are too many variables. We have a legit shot at the #3 seed and there is a lot of basketball left to be played. I'd rather have our roster than SA's or OKC's and we can beat both in playoffs. Houston doesn't scare me either. Fool's gold.
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We just got killed by Toronto and Detroit. The only way this roster could be considered a contender would be if Nurk and Collins were at their cielings, and that’s not happening this year, they are probably both 2-3 years away from being close to that.
 
Nurkic + CJ + Turner
To Cleveland
For Love, Thompson + NJ pick

We won’t make the playoffs this year but should look ok for next year and have two lottery picks
 
I don’t really get excited about a great season meaning making it to the second round while talking about a championship like it would be a miracle.
 
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If we can get Love and that Nets pick for CJ it would be our most realistic way of retooling this roster for the future. This is a good draft to have 2 lottery picks in.
 
LayneStaley said:
If we can get Love and that Nets pick for CJ it would be our most realistic way of retooling this roster for the future. This is a good draft to have 2 lottery picks in.
Click to expand...

There is like 0% chance for that. CJ isn't worth that much.
 
Lukee said:
There is like 0% chance for that. CJ isn't worth that much.
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Add pieces then, the centerpieces of the trade would be CJ and Love/pick. This could be cle last shot at a title for awhile if James leaves(which I think he will). They might be more willing to deal under those circumstances, Love and that pick don’t help in anyway for the next 2 month, CJ would. I don’t care how many shitty contracts we take back as long as they are all off the books the same year as our 3 shitty contract and we acquire lottery picks. We have to build through the draft. We are due for a Roy/LMA draft.
 
BrianFromWA said:
It sends a message that the guys on the team can't pull it off, but some outsider can? Giving up draft picks and useful players for someone to clean up a mistake? Put another way, what would Dame think if we'd given up Patty C and Zach and Ed to get rid of Crabbe's contract? How competitive would our team be then?

Players have said multiple times (both the traded-for and the team they come to) that it's super-disruptive to go through a midseason trade. Sure, if we were giving up half our team for Kawhi or something it may be worth it. Hell, the Thunder still aren't gelling with Melo and PG added to RW, and they're 2/3 of the way into the season. Why would you want to remove chemistry and change up lives for "someone minor"?

Out of curiosity, who is the last player traded for midseason, that we gave up a 1st for, who was worth it? I'll even help out with a list:
1) Afflalo and Gee for Barton, TRob, Claver and a 1st. (2015)
2) Crash for a 2011 and 2013 1st, Cunningham, Marks, Przybilla (big win b/c we turned Crash into Dame in 1 year, but hurt our draft classes) (2011)

Vice, when we had space:
1) Getting a 2021 pick for Brian Roberts' absorption (meh, but ok)
2) Getting CLE's pick (that became Swanigan) for Varejao's absorption (good deal, though tempered by having a 1.9M cap hit for the entirety of Dame's/CJ's contract)
3) Eric Maynor for a TPE (meh, but serviceable backup for a bit)

Vice, when we were sellers:
1) Plumlee for Nurk and a 1st (good deal, even if it's just for 1 more year of a cheap, serviceable center and a pick that allowed us to move up to target Zach).
2) Camby for Jonny Flynn, Hasheem Thabeet, a conditional 2012 2nd round pick (MIN own) and a TPE. (2012) (lots of meh here)
3) Crash for Okur, Williams and 1st that became Dame (big win)


What about big-time buyers throughout recent NBA history?
MIL 2003: Trading prime Ray Allen and a 1st for Gary Payton. Fail.
DET 2004: Lots of role players and a 1st for Sheed. Big win.
LAL 2008: Trading 2 1sts, salary space and the rights to M. Gasol (who hadn't come to NBA yet) for Pau. Win-win, as LAL went to 3 Finals in a row and kept K*be happy, and MEM got Gasol. Of note, if M. Gasol didn't unprecedentedly blow up into a star, this would've been a colossal fail for MEM as Greivis Vasquez and Done Greene, the 2 late 1sts they got, didn't make anyone forget Pau.)
LAC 2011: Paying an unprotected 1st to get Mo Williams and to get rid of Baron Davis' contract. Mo left quickly, and the pick became #1 (Kyrie). (Neil Olshey special):
Mo started 23 games for the Clips. Kyrie is Kyrie.

NYK 2012: Melo-drama I. Lots of players and picks, and I'm sure that NYK will say they did well with it, but I keep wondering how many of those young players they regretted giving up, to never go past the 2nd round?
BOS 2015: Trading a 1st and Marcus Thornton for Isaiah Thomas. Seemed to work out OK for BOS, and PHX used it (Skal Labissiere) to move up from 13 to 8 and draft Marquis Chriss.

Sellers usually do ok (we've done quite well). Taking up space is meh, but brings in some assets. Being buyers, we have overpaid. If we didn't have Billy King around to give us Dame for Crash, both of those "buy" deals look pretty horrendous, as does NO's buy of Mo Williams in 2011.

tl;dr, don't be buyers for the sake of being buyers. Don't attach draft capital to get rid of bad players.
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And then you have this year. Griffin trade to Detroit. So far a pretty big win for Detroit.
 
KingSpeed said:
No you don't. That's what's fun about sports. We don't know how things will play out. There are too many variables. We have a legit shot at the #3 seed and there is a lot of basketball left to be played. I'd rather have our roster than SA's or OKC's and we can beat both in playoffs. Houston doesn't scare me either. Fool's gold.
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I'm confused. You just said you don't know how things can play out - too many variables, then gave teams you said we can beat in the playoffs when there is too many variables left before the season ends.

So umm... which is it?
 
BrianFromWA said:
Well, they could show him Zach Lowe's trade deadline preview (where he discusses how expiring contracts don't hold much sway this year--yay! keeping Ed!--and that you probably can't even dump anyone except Mo even with attaching a pick)...and The Blazers Draft history (key attention paid from 2012 onward)
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The Blazers have a $12.5M TPE, no? We could take on salary in exchange for nothing. That would mean Hood or Favors or several of those mentioned in the article.

The question is whether NO wants to go that deep into the LT now and going forward.
 
It seems NO keeps his potential deals close to the vest. If a deal is done, I bet it surprises.
 
BrianFromWA said:
So if FA never works, trades as buyers generally don't work, and you don't like the time method....we're kind of out of ways to improve, man.
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It's like you are fucking reading my mind. If we don't work the process of free agency, drafting and trying to work on trades then i might as well just quit watching the team.
At some point you have to just enjoy the team you have and look for improvements when they become available.
 
kjironman1 said:
It's like you are fucking reading my mind. If we don't work the process of free agency, drafting and trying to work on trades then i might as well just quit watching the team.
At some point you have to just enjoy the team you have and look for improvements when they become available.
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This is exactly what troubles me, kj: having to look for silver linings and shit.
 
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