So, Will People Switch to Obamacare?

[TradeNurkicNow]

That's hardcore. I definitely respect that. Most of us cowards take their degree, kill their dreams off slowly, and sit in front of a computer wondering if they still have that novel in them as they do data analysis for a faceless corporation. I got money but you can't stuff it in the hole in your soul...

...though the healthcare and iPhones every year are pretty sweet.

The truly lucky ones are the people who don't feel the intense need to be dramatically creative and introspective. Then you are free to work in a good paying job and live your life in a successful manner without feeling like you're lying to yourself.

And yeah, I'm looking forward to my first smart phone. Honestly, 30k a year is going to be a massive income upgrade for me. If the job comes with insurance (not looking likely), even better.

 

[Denny Crane]

Maybe he wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth like you. Maybe he can't find a doctor who will see him for $75.00 (1970's prices). Maybe he'll need tests and lab work (easily over $1,000). MRI's are all the rage now and can run you another $2,000. Colonoscopy ditto. Ongoing care for even a minor affliction can run into thousands a month. Unless he's pulling down $80,000 a year it's unlikely he could afford to treat a heart condition or diabetes or MS or HepC or a failing liver without ending up destitute.

Unless, of course, he was CANADIAN.

The clinic up the street charges $65-$75 per visit.

 

[donkiez]

No need to attack maxiep. He's obviously worked hard to be where he is at. I would venture to guess that he and I have had very similar upbringings and amounts of privilege in our lives.

Where I think we obviously differ is we are different people. I simply didn't have the upbringing to succeed as he did. "Hard work" doesn't equal success in today's society if you work hard at something unprofitable. For innumerable factors, he chose his path and I chose mine. You can't help how you were brought up, and in my estimation, he was lucky that his upbringing and psyche allow him to work in the system and be successful. Not everyone is as lucky.

And yeah, those chronic conditions I have aren't going away and will only lead to decades of expensive treatment (someone tell me if pre-existing conditions matters here.) With assloads of student debt and, at best, a 30k per year job, it's gonna be an awesome next 40 years.

I think you have touched on what is really wrong in our country. Harder work does not equal more pay but many people who make more pay believe that they earned it harder than everyone else, regardless of their advantages they have to start with. Our current system does not promote a healthy innovative society, it promotes corporate serfdom. I sold my soul to the corporations and have a relatively comfortable life with lots of stuff, but I feel trapped by the company I work for and tied by my "golden handcuffs". I applaud you for the choices you made and I feel people like you are necessary to keep making our country great, I wonder though if you got married and had a kid or two would you be able to keep on the same path you are on and risk the health of your family? Assuming your future wife is in a similar situation as yourself.

 

[blazerboy30]

What better decision should I have made? I studied what I wanted to study. I went into debt like I was supposed to. I worked through school like I was supposed to. I got good grades. I got a Fulbright fucking scholarship. Where am I now? Broke, in debt, and without insurance.

"You should have made better decisions" is awfully short-sighted and prescriptivist. Do you know who I am? How I was raised? What my values are? No. As far as I see it, most of the decisions I made were good ones. I worked in the system like I was supposed to. My problem is that I have interests and passions that do not make money in today's society. I chose them over studying something I do not like in order to get a better job (like my dad, who is now a depressed alcoholic.) I guess I'm just being a drain on the system.

Maybe someday you'll be a big boy and realize that life isn't about just getting to study what you want to study and following your passions on a whim. It sounds great, and the romantics will tell you that's what you should do, but those people shouldn't expect to be subsidized and supported. There were lots of things in grad school that I would have liked to stay and study and get several degrees, but I had to move on.

 

[donkiez]

Maybe someday you'll be a big boy and realize that life isn't about just getting to study what you want to study and following your passions on a whim. It sounds great, and the romantics will tell you that's what you should do, but those people shouldn't expect to be subsidized and supported. There were lots of things in grad school that I would have liked to stay and study and get several degrees, but I had to move on.

Maybe a Hoojacks should have spent his time preparing for a career on wall street, as a banker, or a lawyer. We need more of those hard workers to improve our country right?

 

[maxiep]

Maybe a Hoojacks should have spent his time preparing for a career on wall street, as a banker, or a lawyer. We need more of those hard workers to improve our country right?

My career in investment banking and venture capital has created thousands of jobs through supplying capital for new ventures and real estate developments. I'd call that improving our country. What has your career done for us?

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I think you have touched on what is really wrong in our country. Harder work does not equal more pay but many people who make more pay believe that they earned it harder than everyone else, regardless of their advantages they have to start with. Our current system does not promote a healthy innovative society, it promotes corporate serfdom. I sold my soul to the corporations and have a relatively comfortable life with lots of stuff, but I feel trapped by the company I work for and tied by my "golden handcuffs". I applaud you for the choices you made and I feel people like you are necessary to keep making our country great, I wonder though if you got married and had a kid or two would you be able to keep on the same path you are on and risk the health of your family? Assuming your future wife is in a similar situation as yourself.

This is actually something coming up very soon. My girl and I are getting to the age (30) where having kids needs to happen in the next 5 years if we're going to do it at all. We're both finishing up our masters degrees and need to find decent paying full time employment with benefits sooner than later if we're going to have children.

If that happens, then everything I have done was essentially a waste and I will likely spend the rest of my life at a desk job. If it doesn't happen, we can pick up and travel whenever we want and do odd jobs to survive while we work on the things that we are passionate about. It's a conundrum, and I don't have an easy answer.

Maybe someday you'll be a big boy and realize that life isn't about just getting to study what you want to study and following your passions on a whim.

If life isn't about doing what makes you happy, then what is it about?

Who said anything about whims? I've been doing this shit since I was 18, when the system told me that I was an adult so now I have to figure out what to do with my life. I made my decision. It's been 10 years and I'm just now getting out of grad school.

It sounds great, and the romantics will tell you that's what you should do, but those people shouldn't expect to be subsidized and supported. There were lots of things in grad school that I would have liked to stay and study and get several degrees, but I had to move on.

The romantics? I'm one of them.

In what ways am I being subsidized? I don't have food stamps. I'm not on Oregon Health Plan. I'm not on disability. I'm not on welfare. I don't have any government aid.

By the time I die, I will have paid off twice as much money as I borrowed to go to school. That money will create jobs (lol no it wont). I am a goddamn boon to the system.

 

[donkiez]

My career in investment banking and venture capital has created thousands of jobs through supplying capital for new ventures and real estate developments. I'd call that improving our country. What has your career done for us?

and your penis is bigger than mine also or should we whip them out to compare? Congratulations on your accomplishments in life, you really do deserve health care more than Hoojacks......

Investment bankers can have positive impacts on society, but we also need writers, doctors, scientists, servers, gas station attendants, technicians, researchers, teachers, delivery services, etc many of which money is not the main driving force of their contribution to society. My point with that statement is the vast amounts of money to be made in the financial sector is not equal to the amount of work done in comparison to other jobs, and the people who make those sums of money are not entitled to life any more than a gas station attendant. We need Hoojacks, we also need you and me to all be healthy so we all can contribute to the health of our society in the best ways we can to maintain a diverse and robust economy. We are all on the same team here, think of yourself as the quarterback and us as the practice team members if that helps.

 

[maxiep]

and your penis is bigger than mine also or should we whip them out to compare? Congratulations on your accomplishments in life, you really do deserve health care more than Hoojacks......

Investment bankers can have positive impacts on society, but we also need writers, doctors, scientists, servers, gas station attendants, technicians, researchers, teachers, delivery services, etc many of which money is not the main driving force of their contribution to society. My point with that statement is the vast amounts of money to be made in the financial sector is not equal to the amount of work done in comparison to other jobs, and the people who make those sums of money are not entitled to life any more than a gas station attendant. We need Hoojacks, we also need you and me to all be healthy so we all can contribute to the health of our society in the best ways we can to maintain a diverse and robust economy. We are all on the same team here, think of yourself as the quarterback and us as the practice team members if that helps.

Nah, I have a tiny penis. As for "deserving" health care, you pretend that it's a right. It's not.

For the record, I've been an adjunct professor, a researcher, a landscaper, volunteered at least two days a month for Habitat for Humanity for the past two decades (when I've lived in the States), and supplied enough tax receipts to fund many of the jobs you claim are indispensable.

I would have loved to have followed my dreams, but in the end I made the choice for financial security. Now you tell me that my lifetime of sacrifice entitles me to a life no better than those that didn't work as hard or did what they pleased? Bullshit.

As for how I think of myself, I played the lines in HS. In college I moved to safety. My job is to do the heavy lifting and protect the middle. It's the dreamers that get the glory; my ilk is pilloried.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

It's the dreamers that get the glory; my ilk is pilloried.

For every dreamer that achieves glory, there are 100 who never did. The wealthy in this country are the ones who are revered.

 

[Eastoff]

Nah, I have a tiny penis. As for "deserving" health care, you pretend that it's a right. It's not.

For the record, I've been an adjunct professor, a researcher, a landscaper, volunteered at least two days a month for Habitat for Humanity for the past two decades (when I've lived in the States), and supplied enough tax receipts to fund many of the jobs you claim are indispensable.

I would have loved to have followed my dreams, but in the end I made the choice for financial security. Now you tell me that my lifetime of sacrifice entitles me to a life no better than those that didn't work as hard or did what they pleased? Bullshit.

As for how I think of myself, I played the lines in HS. In college I moved to safety. My job is to do the heavy lifting and protect the middle. It's the dreamers that get the glory; my ilk is pilloried.

I want to tell a story, that you probably don't care about. My dad used to work on Saturdays regularly as a kid, and overtime during the week. I saw my mom mostly, but she worked as well. Do you know what I thought of him as when I was little? The guy with glasses who lives with us. Yes, earning money is very important.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

When earning money is all you're good at, then earning money is what you must revere to justify your life.

 

[donkiez]

Nah, I have a tiny penis. As for "deserving" health care, you pretend that it's a right. It's not.

For the record, I've been an adjunct professor, a researcher, a landscaper, volunteered at least two days a month for Habitat for Humanity for the past two decades (when I've lived in the States), and supplied enough tax receipts to fund many of the jobs you claim are indispensable.

I would have loved to have followed my dreams, but in the end I made the choice for financial security. Now you tell me that my lifetime of sacrifice entitles me to a life no better than those that didn't work as hard or did what they pleased? Bullshit.

As for how I think of myself, I played the lines in HS. In college I moved to safety. My job is to do the heavy lifting and protect the middle. It's the dreamers that get the glory; my ilk is pilloried.

The reward for you choices, luck, and hard work should be income, not life. I'm more like you than hoojacks by the way. I also have a small penis.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

At least i have a huge dick

 

[donkiez]

At least i have a huge dick

you should post pictures on the Timberwolves forum page!

 

[maxiep]

For every dreamer that achieves glory, there are 100 who never did. The wealthy in this country are the ones who are revered.

Obviously, in this forum, I'm loved and admired. And in general, investment bankers and venture capitalists are put on a pedestal by the American people.

 

[maxiep]

The reward for you choices, luck, and hard work should be income, not life. I'm more like you than hoojacks by the way. I also have a small penis.

And the point is that I'm being vilified by those who didn't work as hard because of what I have.

 

[maxiep]

When earning money is all you're good at, then earning money is what you must revere to justify your life.

WTF does that even mean?

 

[maxiep]

I want to tell a story, that you probably don't care about. My dad used to work on Saturdays regularly as a kid, and overtime during the week. I saw my mom mostly, but she worked as well. Do you know what I thought of him as when I was little? The guy with glasses who lives with us. Yes, earning money is very important.

I want to tell a story, that you probably don't care about. That guy with glasses that lived with you, that used to work on Saturdays and overtime during the week, put a roof over your head in the best school district in the state, clothes on your back and food on your table. Yes, earning money is very important. You should honor the sacrifice your parents made for you to have a better life.

 

[Denny Crane]

$30K is roughly 2x minimum wage, and well over the poverty line. The system isn't just discriminating against those with pre-existing conditions, it's discriminating against people based on income, and reasonable income at that.

30 years ago, it cost me $2800 to pay the doctor, hospital, birthing suite, nurses, etc., when we had our first. It was roughly 1/10 of my year's salary. Today, that same procedure would cost 10x that and a year's salary.

The "let them eat cake, I got mine, go fuck yourself" attitude doesn't address the problem.

The doctors 30 years ago were plenty rich, they don't need to be 10x as rich at the cost of denying (through pricing) people from getting care.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I want to tell a story, that you probably don't care about. That guy with glasses that lived with you, that used to work on Saturdays and overtime during the week, put a roof over your head in the best school district in the state, clothes on your back and food on your table. Yes, earning money is very important. You should honor the sacrifice your parents made for you to have a better life.

Maxie..very nice

Hoo,sorry your heart is following a field that has little reward..I have a niece that graduated with bs in psychology..only to find that she will have to further educate herself to obtain worth while employment, my other niece who lives with me is in the engeneering school at OS, has already been published three times and has employers already courting her..they both made their choices..

 

[Nikolokolus]

$30K is roughly 2x minimum wage, and well over the poverty line. The system isn't just discriminating against those with pre-existing conditions, it's discriminating against people based on income, and reasonable income at that.

30 years ago, it cost me $2800 to pay the doctor, hospital, birthing suite, nurses, etc., when we had our first. It was roughly 1/10 of my year's salary. Today, that same procedure would cost 10x that and a year's salary.

The "let them eat cake, I got mine, go fuck yourself" attitude doesn't address the problem.

The doctors 30 years ago were plenty rich, they don't need to be 10x as rich at the cost of denying (through pricing) people from getting care.

This is (partly) the issue for me.

For a number of reasons (some kind of complicated) there's an awful lot cost involved with our healthcare system compared to the amount of return you get on your investment. Certainly many doctors are doing very well for themselves and a career in healthcare as a nurse or technologist can pay you a pretty healthy wage, but that's just a portion of the cost. Malpractice insurance rates are sky-high, there are multiple layers of bureaucracy and administration that tack on additional costs and there's no shortage of insurance companies, pharmaceutical firms and medical equipment manufacturers making a killing in this industry either. The end result is that eventually all of those costs get reflected in your bill and a ton of that cost is mostly to prop up non-essential middlemen and profiteers.

Obamacare looks like a fiasco, but not because of its stated goals of granting access to healthcare for the uninsured, but because it did nothing to address the structural weaknesses in the healthcare system and instead just adds another layer of administrative bloat that will end up doing nothing to curb runaway consumer costs.

 

[maxiep]

$30K is roughly 2x minimum wage, and well over the poverty line. The system isn't just discriminating against those with pre-existing conditions, it's discriminating against people based on income, and reasonable income at that.

30 years ago, it cost me $2800 to pay the doctor, hospital, birthing suite, nurses, etc., when we had our first. It was roughly 1/10 of my year's salary. Today, that same procedure would cost 10x that and a year's salary.

The "let them eat cake, I got mine, go fuck yourself" attitude doesn't address the problem.

The doctors 30 years ago were plenty rich, they don't need to be 10x as rich at the cost of denying (through pricing) people from getting care.

<<cough>>malpractice insurance<<cough>>administrative compliance costs<<cough>>

 

[donkiez]

And the point is that I'm being vilified by those who didn't work as hard because of what I have.

It was your choice to enter that profession. If you did not want to be vilified perhaps you should studied something that's more socially respected or live with the consequence of your actions.

 

[MarAzul]

It was your choice to enter that profession. If you did not want to be vilified perhaps you should studied something that's more socially respected or live with the consequence of your actions.

Wow! "socially respected"! I have never thought to think of that concept?

Is this part of a code?

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Obviously, in this forum, I'm loved and admired. And in general, investment bankers and venture capitalists are put on a pedestal by the American people.

You can't deny that in general the rich are celebrated and the poor are vilified.

 

[PapaG]

I like what I'm studying. It's fascinating. It lets me travel. It informs my art.

Part of me wishes that I had the balls to do that when I was younger, instead of now looking at re-inventing myself because of how much I loathe the corporate world and, even worse, its culture. I am not a corporate worker now, per se, but I still depend on corporate America for my livelihood. The good news is that I can pick and choose my projects. The bad news is that it's now like choosing between rotten meat or spoiled milk. Guzzle it down and hope it doesn't make you sick.

I'm considering taking a large pay cut to work for a non-profit that helps people in need. Not as a volunteer, but to help manage the program structurally and have my boots on the ground level. I think my wife has almost bought-in on the idea.

 

[PapaG]

You can't deny that in general the rich are celebrated and the poor are vilified.

Um, what? I'd argue that the poor are celebrated, but largely ignored, while the rich are criticized, yet not hated. At least that seems to be the case with our current administration. The 'poor' community is nothing more than a vote mechanism for the Democratic elite, and I'm finally going to do something to try and help them out, instead of just paying lip service.

 

[PapaG]

When earning money is all you're good at, then earning money is what you must revere to justify your life.

Right on. The flip side is when you've had enough of the bullshit, and realize that literally hating your job isn't worth the perks it provides.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I want to tell a story, that you probably don't care about. That guy with glasses that lived with you, that used to work on Saturdays and overtime during the week, put a roof over your head in the best school district in the state, clothes on your back and food on your table. Yes, earning money is very important. You should honor the sacrifice your parents made for you to have a better life.

Ooh ooh ooh I have my own story no one will care about.

My mom and dad ran away together when they were 18. They lived in tents, cars, and shacks they built themselves out in the mountains of Southern Oregon. After working hard labor and building enough of a life to go to college, they both enrolled at Southern Oregon University. My dad was studying music and my mom was studying fine art. Then they got pregnant with my sister. My dad immediately switched to math and computer science, after being three years into a music degree. He graduated with honors. He got a job programming for the county. He eventually got hired at Nike as an IT architect and we moved to Beaverton where we joined the middle class. He's worked at Nike ever since. He worked long hours. He sacrificed his dreams so that we could live in a split level home and shop at New Seasons and go to Hawaii every 2 or 3 years.

He's now a depressed alcoholic that has totally given up on life. He's as creative as ever, but it has nowhere to go. He is crazy. So I saw my dad and what he did for the family and what it did to him. I swore I would never be him. I honor him, yes. But I miss the normal person he used to be when we were poor. A comfortable life in the suburbs was not worth throwing away my dad's good years and costing him his mental health.