source on Roy and Aldridge's agent...

[Stevenson]

Let me repeat, since no one picked up on it in the other thread, Paul Allen has lost 75% of his net worth over the past 10 years! He would be perfectly justified in being a bit more cautious with his money than in years past.

Don't you get it man? Paul Allen is a billionaire!!!! He must pay anyone anything they request because "He can afford it!"

 

[PapaG]

Millsap. 4 years, $32 million. THAT'S the market.

Or is it?

$8 million/per for a guy that doesn't even start on his team versus a Rookie of the Year, two-time All-Star, and 2nd team All-NBA player. Good luck with your "market" argument.

 

[PapaG]

As an agent, I would think you would go find some horrible contracts and claim that is the market. Your example would fit that scenario.

Millsap, who I think is a better player that Bargnani, just signed for considerably less, so if I were the Blazers, I would point to that.

It certainly wouldn't be smart to go around the league and base your contracts off of other teams bad signings.

$8 million/per for a guy that doesn't even start on his team versus a Rookie of the Year, two-time All-Star, franchise player, and 2nd team All-NBA player. Good luck with your "market" argument.

Comparing Millsap (a role player) to Roy? If I am Roy's agent, I'd demand a trade at that moment. I can only hope the front office isn't using your line of "thinking" in their negotiations.

 

[PapaG]

The more I think about Paul Millsap being used by the Blazers, the more I have to laugh about it.

The Blazers were willing to pay a back-up PF $8 million/year. A role player. What is your franchise player worth? Pretty easy reply from Roy's agent.

 

[Minstrel]

If I am Roy's agent, I'd demand a trade at that moment. I can only hope the front office isn't using your line of "thinking" in their negotiations.

Somehow, I don't think Roy's agent plans on using your line of thinking, either. I'm sortof amused that you are almost certainly more hyper and angry about this than Roy and his agent.

Negotiations happen...the image of Roy (or his agent) saying, "Paul Millsap??? How dare you? That's it, I already had my bags packed and I kept the engine running...you won't have Brandon Roy to kick around anymore!" is more than a bit hilarious to me. I almost wish we lived in a universe where things like that happened, for the entertainment value.

 

[PapaG]

Somehow, I don't think Roy's agent plans on using your line of thinking, either. I'm sortof amused that you are almost certainly more hyper and angry about this than Roy and his agent.

Negotiations happen...the image of Roy (or his agent) saying, "Paul Millsap??? How dare you? That's it, I already had my bags packed and I kept the engine running...you won't have Brandon Roy to kick around anymore!" is more than a bit hilarious to me. I almost wish we lived in a universe where things like that happened, for the entertainment value.

Not a fan of hyperbole, eh?

Portland hypothetically using their offer to Millsap in negotiating with Roy is ridiculously hilarious to me. I mean, it's borderline moronic if you think about it.

As for "hyper" and "angry", those are some fairly subjective words from a usually objective producer. I'm neither hyper nor angry. I am amused at the spin from the Vulcan defenders, however, and used hyperbole to get my point across.

 

[Minstrel]

Not a fan of hyperbole, eh?

These days, on this topic, it's hard to understand what you mean seriously and what you say just for effect. I mean that honestly, not snidely.

Portland hypothetically using their offer to Millsap in negotiating with Roy is ridiculously hilarious to me. I mean, it's borderline moronic if you think about it.

Roy > Millsap. I don't think anyone would dispute that. But Millsap is relevant in that he indicates the market is somewhat depressed, as his salary seems low for someone of his basketball value. The Bargnani contract could argue the opposite. Obviously, each side is going to point to the contracts that support the view of the market that they want to rule.

As for "hyper" and "angry", those are some fairly subjective words from a usually objective producer. I'm neither hyper nor angry. I am amused at the spin from the Vulcan defenders, however.

Subjective terms aren't evil. You come across as angry to me when you put "thinking" in quotation marks when talking about what someone else says. You come across as hyper to me because your posting has spiked upward lately and the vast majority of that is about this topic. Obviously, you may well not be angry or hyper at all...I was describing how you appear to me, on this issue.

I strive for objectivity insofar as I try not to let what I want to be true to colour my evaluations of what actually is true. I don't completely avoid subjective terms and evaluations, because that's impossible. Judging defense or decision-making, for example, has a major subjective element.

 

[PapaG]

These days, on this topic, it's hard to understand what you mean seriously and what you say just for effect. I mean that honestly, not snidely.

What does it matter? I find it a bit discomforting that you would be assessing a state of mind to my posts, and then go to the length of sharing your interpretation of my state of mind.

Roy > Millsap. I don't think anyone would dispute that. But Millsap is relevant in that he indicates the market is somewhat depressed, as his salary seems low for someone of his basketball value. The Bargnani contract could argue the opposite. Obviously, each side is going to point to the contracts that support the view of the market that they want to rule.

If Portland wants to make a money-saving argument with Roy's negotitation and tie it in with the economy, as I've read in this thread, then offering $8 million/per, and $10.3 million in cash this week, to a back-up PF makes the entire argument laughably hypocritical. The Blazers are looking to save money, except when it comes to the grossly overpaying a back-up PF that no one else had even offered.

Subjective terms aren't evil.

Now there a nice red herring. I don't recall saying being subjective is evil.

You come across as angry to me when you put "thinking" in quotation marks when talking about what someone else says.

Thank you for sharing how you feel about how I feel about how I post.

You come across as hyper to me because your posting has spiked upward lately and the vast majority of that is about this topic. Obviously, you may well not be angry or hyper at all...I was describing how you appear to me, on this issue.

I'm passionate about this issue and puzzled by it. I've yet to see you call any other posters "hyper" or "angry", however. If I am crossing lines, edit the posts. If not, you seem to have a strange fascination with me.

I strive for objectivity insofar as I try not to let what I want to be true to colour my evaluations of what actually is true. I don't completely avoid subjective terms and evaluations, because that's impossible. Judging defense or decision-making, for example, has a major subjective element.

You strive for objectivity, yet instead of addressing my post, you address my supposed mindset instead of the point I am making about markets.

 

[Minstrel]

What does it matter? I find it a bit discomforting that you would assing a state of mind to my posts, and then go to the length of sharing your interpretation of my state of mind.

I shared with you an amusing observation: that you seem more upset about all this than Roy and his agent. You got a little hot under the collar about it (o noes, more psycho-analysis!!), so I endeavored to explain it a bit further.

Apparently, explaining it further made you feel like you have a stalker, and I do want you to sleep well at night (because I enjoy watching you sleep peacefully...) rather than feel discomfited, so let's just go back to my original intent...amusing observation.

If Portland wants to make a money-saving argument with Roy's negotitation and tie it in with the economy

Not a "money-saving argument." An argument that the economy is down, salaries are going down, thus Roy's salary will be lower than it would be in a different economic situation. That they offered a contract that seems to bear this out to Millsap isn't contradictory.

 

[PapaG]

I shared with you an amusing observation: that you seem more upset about all this than Roy and his agent. You got a little hot under the collar about it (o noes, more psycho-analysis!!), so I endeavored to explain it a bit further.

Apparently, explaining it further made you feel like you have a stalker, and I do want you to sleep well at night (because I enjoy watching you sleep peacefully...) rather than feel discomfited, so let's just go back to my original intent...amusing observation.



Not a "money-saving argument." An argument that the economy is down, salaries are going down, thus Roy's salary will be lower than it would be in a different economic situation. That they offered a contract that seems to bear this out to Millsap isn't contradictory.

I'd argue that paying a back-up PF $8 million/per is contradictory, as well as an insanely high offer for a player who does not start on his own team. That argument doesn't pass the smell test, and then throw in the extensions due the next few years, and it makes even less sense.

 

[Minstrel]

I'd argue that paying a back-up PF $8 million/per is contradictory, as well as an insanely high offer for a player who does not start on his own team.

I don't think his role on the team determines his actual market value, since it's team dependent. If Roy were on the Lakers or Heat, he'd be backup. Would that make him an objectively less valuable player? You can certainly question the Blazers' priorities in signing a power forward when they have a good one, but Millsap is still a very good starting-caliber power forward who's had the bad luck to be on a team with an entrenched 20/10 power forward.

For a very good starting-caliber power forward, who's only 23, $8 million / year seems like a steal. It's evidence (though not proof) that the market is depressed. There is also counter-evidence. Each side will use the evidence that supports the view they want to determine the negotiations.

 

[PapaG]

I don't think his role on the team determines his actual market value, since it's team dependent. If Roy were on the Lakers or Heat, he'd be backup. Would that make him an objectively less valuable player? You can certainly question the Blazers' priorities in signing a power forward when they have a good one, but Millsap is still a very good starting-caliber power forward who's had the bad luck to be on a team with an entrenched 20/10 power forward.

For a very good starting-caliber power forward, who's only 23, $8 million / year seems like a steal. It's evidence (though not proof) that the market is depressed. There is also counter-evidence. Each side will use the evidence that supports the view they want to determine the negotiations.

OK then. We'll agree to disagree. I'd say locking up a 25 year-old All-Star for five years at a max deal seems like a fairly accurate portrayal of Roy's own market value, but whatever. I do know that primarily the argument you are making is against me as a poster and is therefore contrarian, and it is not over my opinion on Roy's contract situation based on how you feel about it.

Assigning Roy's market value at anything less than the maximum is a joke, and if they are haggling over a 5th year option, that tells me I'm a lot closer to correct than those taking the Vulcan side.

 

[Minstrel]

I do know that primarily the argument you are making is against me as a poster and is therefore contrarian

Not at all. I don't disagree with you that Roy is worth a max contract...I completely disagree with you that the Blazers have no business engaging in tough negotiations with Roy.

 

[Idog1976]

So you're telling us that some celebrity friend of yours said that some agent he knows is speculating that the Blazers are trying to make negotiations tough with Roy in an attempt to intimidate Aldridge into signing for less money?

...wow. I hope I'm not the only one who laughed when reading your post.

And I LOVE how you have a direct quote! That reminds me of back in elementary school when the teacher had us all line up, told the first kid a sentence, then he told the next kid, then the next kid told the next, etc. etc. until it reached the last kid and he would say something completely different than the original message.

Anyway, I'll be blunt and say your post is complete horseshit.

Well you're wrong. My friend plays hoops with Roy and Aldridges agent. Mr. Agent man said that he expected a battle over Roy's contract. You don't have to believe me, but I'm telling you the truth. It's not a direct quote it's my best shot at repeating what he said. It's not a direct quote it's a paraphrased quote. The meaning is there even if the exact wording is wrong.

I've known this guy since middle school and I was at his wedding reception. Dude isn't much of a bullshitter but he loves to drop names of (semi)famous people he has hung out with. He has met John Malkovich and Paris Hilton and there is video proof of both in the form of one funny and one garbage movie. I won't say more then that because he may not appreciate me giving his identity away.

I don't care if you believe me. I'm telling the truth. A smart man can figure out who my friend is now and if that was done I'd post proof of me knowing him

 

[Tince]

Well you're wrong. My friend plays hoops with Roy and Aldridges agent. Mr. Agent man said that he expected a battle over Roy's contract. You don't have to believe me, but I'm telling you the truth. It's not a direct quote it's my best shot at repeating what he said. It's not a direct quote it's a paraphrased quote. The meaning is there even if the exact wording is wrong.

I've known this guy since middle school and I was at his wedding reception. Dude isn't much of a bullshitter but he loves to drop names of (semi)famous people he has hung out with. He has met John Malkovich and Paris Hilton and there is video proof of both in the form of one funny and one garbage movie. I won't say more then that because he may not appreciate me giving his identity away.

I don't care if you believe me. I'm telling the truth. A smart man can figure out who my friend is now and if that was done I'd post proof of me knowing him

Let the cynics ignore added information, it's their loss. You don't need to prove anything to anyone.

 

[Idog1976]

Let the cynics ignore added information, it's their loss. You don't need to prove anything to anyone.

Right on, and probably the better attitude. It makes perfect sense with everything I'm seeing. I'm not saying I'm for or against the Blazers playing hardball. I just think we can rest easy now to know it's not something weird at all. It's just business.