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I still think he's basically Karl Malone with handles.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html

Malone is 3rd in all-time win shares with 234.63, Jordan 4th with 214.02 (Kareem and Wilt 1/2).

LeBron is 23rd with 152.60.

Physically and offensively, it's an easy comparison to be. But defensively, LeBron is so much more versatile. Malone was a tough defender, but hardly a game changer on his own. (That's why I think Duncan has surpassed Malone for best ever PF honors.)
 
Speaking of broken down, if Ginobili hadn't fallen off so hard this year the Spurs would have mopped up in this series.

Danny Green hitting 5 3s a game the first five games more than made up for it.
 
I still think he's basically Karl Malone with handles.

Karl Malone never, ever, would have been asked to guard a Tony Parker. Maybe a Malone/Pippen/Roberston/Magic hybrid, but the only thing James and Malone really have in common are exceptional physiques while still being agile.
 
Karl Malone never, ever, would have been asked to guard a Tony Parker. Maybe a Malone/Pippen/Roberston/Magic hybrid, but the only thing James and Malone really have in common are exceptional physiques while still being agile.

Good post. I'd add that Malone wasn't even *that* agile, at least nothing like LeBron. The Mailman was a great post scorer, a fantastic passer, had a fantastic midrange game and just knew the pick-and-roll better than maybe any non-PG ever. His huge frame and solid base let him set picks that nobody could match. But his game was based on strength and intelligence, not really agility.

LeBron is much more similar to Shaq. If you put his skill set into a traditional NBA body (for Shaq it would be 6'10, 250, for LeBron it'd be 6'5, 210) he'd still be a very good NBA player, maybe an All Star. But it's the fact that you have this guy with these prototypical talents in this incredibly non-typical powerhouse, oversized, athletic body, without giving up much in the way of speed. Sure, Shaq was huge, but in his prime he moved like a guy who was 6'10. LeBron is similarly massive for his skillset, but he moves like a guy who is 6'5. When LeBron goes to dunk, you pretty much have to treat him like Shaq or it's going to be an and1.

LeBron, of course, has a much better motor than Shaq ever did. Which is why he's added the three point shooting and defense, and why I think he'll have a more impactful career. And he's smarter and a better teammate.

But you think of the other greats in the game, and there are precious few examples of guys who gained such a massive advantage through a combination of strength and size while maintaining speed and agility.
 
Malone had a very long career and still managed to average 25 PPG for his career. His assist stats are terrific for a PF, especially when he wasn't the primary ballhandler. The guy was all defense team, so his defense was really elite.

LeBron's stats will show more assists, while Malone's will show more rebounds.

There wasn't much opportunity for Malone to guard much smaller players. They didn't really have anyone else to guard PFs, and Utah's guards were excellent in their own right. Their SF guarded Jordan in the playoffs.

Malone was an outstanding outside shooter. The 3pt shot wasn't emphasized much back then, or he may have taken more.
 
You don't seriously believe Malone could have guarded smaller players on the perimeter if asked to? That's an extremely weak hypothetical situation you just created.
 
I just don't see the comparison with Malone, other than physique. Stockton mostly ran the offense, whereas LeBron spends a lot of his time playing PG. Malone did 70% of his damage on pick and roll/pop, whereas LeBron is much more varied.

Malone's never had much elevation. He dunked with force and dexterity, but he never skied.

LeBron is probably the most terrifying guy on a break I've ever witnessed because of his speed, size and ball handling. Malone could finish breaks, but he rarely ran them. (The Jazz were known for a fairly plodding half-court offense for a reason.)

Malone was the ultimate half court power forward, at least in terms of offense. He was just such a gifted scorer and passer in that environment. James may be the most complete player to ever play the game (or at least in my lifetime.) Size, speed, power, strength, vision, shooting....
 
So compare their stats and physique and remember I already said in my first post that the difference is in the ball handling.

LeBron playing more and more PF as time goes on, so another similarity.
 
So compare their stats and physique and remember I already said in my first post that the difference is in the ball handling.

LeBron playing more and more PF as time goes on, so another similarity.

There's more of a difference than just ball handling, but I know you'll continue to push your position, no matter how odd it seems on the surface.
 
For all his triple doubles and ultimately coming out victorious, the lasting impression I have from James this series is the missing stone cold killer instinct in his make-up. Yes, he made some big shots, but the shots that leave the lasting impression are the missed ones or the ones he chose not to take because of the tiny imprint of doubt that rattles around in the back recesses of his brain that really reveals itself when things aren't going well. He has the confidence of a proud stallion when his teammates are hitting shots and the crowd is into the game, but the same confidence is zapped when they aren't. I don't think it's something he can change, it's just a part of his human make-up. Few people and players have it, and it looks like it will be the asterisk on his legacy once he's done and retired.

Every Heat loss was a blowout except game 1, I think the moral of the story is that LeBron James just won a title with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh playing like shit.

If two out of the Big three play like shit in a post-season run you're not supposed to win a title. As for legacy, it's that he is the #1 scorer in elimination games all-time, and as the most efficient player in NBA playoff history. More than your precious idols.


I still think he's basically Karl Malone with handles.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html

Malone is 3rd in all-time win shares with 234.63, Jordan 4th with 214.02 (Kareem and Wilt 1/2).

LeBron is 23rd with 152.60.

LeBron is a more efficient player than anyone in his prime, Malone is garbage in the post-season. Jordan is an offensive-minded player who could never dominate Bigs defensively like James.

Kobe Bryant has a better post-season prime than Malone.
 
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Good post. I'd add that Malone wasn't even *that* agile, at least nothing like LeBron. The Mailman was a great post scorer, a fantastic passer, had a fantastic midrange game and just knew the pick-and-roll better than maybe any non-PG ever. His huge frame and solid base let him set picks that nobody could match. But his game was based on strength and intelligence, not really agility.

LeBron is much more similar to Shaq. If you put his skill set into a traditional NBA body (for Shaq it would be 6'10, 250, for LeBron it'd be 6'5, 210) he'd still be a very good NBA player, maybe an All Star. But it's the fact that you have this guy with these prototypical talents in this incredibly non-typical powerhouse, oversized, athletic body, without giving up much in the way of speed. Sure, Shaq was huge, but in his prime he moved like a guy who was 6'10. LeBron is similarly massive for his skillset, but he moves like a guy who is 6'5. When LeBron goes to dunk, you pretty much have to treat him like Shaq or it's going to be an and1.

LeBron, of course, has a much better motor than Shaq ever did. Which is why he's added the three point shooting and defense, and why I think he'll have a more impactful career. And he's smarter and a better teammate.

But you think of the other greats in the game, and there are precious few examples of guys who gained such a massive advantage through a combination of strength and size while maintaining speed and agility.

LeBron is a much better jumpshooter than Kobe Bryant, so no I don't think Shaq even compares offensively.
 
http://bkref.com/tiny/y7YNG

Looks like Malone is #30 on this list. He's never had a WS/48 above .270 in the regular season, he's never had a WS/48 postseason above .220.

Keep grabbing at straws with your guy in jeopardy.

Odd choice for your sample. Before any of Jordan's SIX rings, but include LeBron's.

Unimpressed
 
Odd choice for your sample. Before any of Jordan's SIX rings, but include LeBron's.

Unimpressed

Sorry buddy, but it does includes LeBron's and Jordan's first two rings. Jordan's post-season prime as well.

You are getting worse lol.
 
i always had a feeling baron davis was the 7th best playoff performer of all time, but what i needed was some advanced statistical analysis to prove it, thanks
 
i always had a feeling baron davis was the 7th best playoff performer of all time, but what i needed was some advanced statistical analysis to prove it, thanks

Too bad that's not what the chart is about. It's about playoff WS and WS/48, it is coupled together. Minutes played matter.

Otherwise Chris Andersen should be the 2013 playoff MVP.
 
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umm, baron davis is 7th in WS/48

read your own graph brah

and

i always had a feeling horace grant was the 7th best playoff performer of all time, but what i needed was some advanced statistical analysis to prove it, thanks
 
umm, baron davis is 7th in WS/48

read your own graph brah

and

i always had a feeling horace grant was the 7th best playoff performer of all time, but what i needed was some advanced statistical analysis to prove it, thanks

Nope sorry, either your terrible example fails in WS or WS/48.

Decent/Role players on title teams get lots of 1, Good/Lucky players get lots of 2, but only Historic players have both qualities.
 
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wheres kobe on that list? didnt he used to be your favorite player, thereby making the lakers your favorite team for that time? you know kobe is still playing right?
 
wheres kobe on that list? didnt he used to be your favorite player, thereby making the lakers your favorite team for that time? you know kobe is still playing right?

Kobe was very inefficient for a significant part of his career, I'm not surprised.
 
LeBron is a much better jumpshooter than Kobe Bryant, so no I don't think Shaq even compares offensively.

My point isn't that Shaq and LeBron have similar skills. That's obviously untrue.

My point is that both guys gain a massive advantage from their size and strength for their relative positions...maybe more than any other players in NBA history (aside from Wilt.) Most guys who play like Shaq were around 6'10, 240. Most guys who play like LeBron are 6'5, 210.
 
Kurt Helin ‏@basketballtalk 2m
NBA TV accidentally ran an ad selling 2013 Spurs championship gear (VIDEO) http://dlvr.it/3Z70Y3

Haha! Love it! Like Rasheed says, "BALL DONT LIE!"
 

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