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Certainly true, it was merely an example to show that I think ability is more important than style of play.



I don't think I want all three on the court together. I'd rather see them in a three-guard rotation. Two of the three on the court at a time.

Also, while I'm not 100% certain it improves the team today (how Bayless will play over a stretch of games is still uncertain), I think that it's a worthwhile risk in order to both let Bayless develop and allow Portland to evaluate how much value he can bring to the team next season.

I have no problem with Bayless getting more minutes. With Rudy and Outlaw out, he's going to get 20-28 mpg for the rest of the season, as he should. I feel he's needed off of the bench, for reasons I posted earlier in this thread. The Blazer fans are going to get an extended look at Bayless. I say let him settle into a role, become a contributer, and assess at later points as the season progresses.
 
He has the worst Drtg out of the Blazer guards. Bayless has two solid games, and suddenly it's time to start him.

Bayless has the worst defensive rating in the entire NBA for players with 500+ minutes based on linear regressed +/- using data since 2005. It's a small sample for him, but doesn't bode well.
 
I have no problem with Bayless getting more minutes. With Rudy and Outlaw out, he's going to get 20-28 mpg for the rest of the season, as he should. I feel he's needed off of the bench, for reasons I posted earlier in this thread. The Blazer fans are going to get an extended look at Bayless. I say let him settle into a role, become a contributer, and assess at later points as the season progresses.

I agree with you that Bayless is not ready to start for this team. However, he should be getting more minutes and those minutes should be taken from Blake. Last night was just so frustrating to see Jerryd bring in some energy and defense only to be yanked for Blake after committing one turnover. There is no way Steve Blake should be getting 38 minutes and Jerryd getting only 17 minutes.
 
Bayless has the worst defensive rating in the entire NBA for players with 500+ minutes based on linear regressed +/- using data since 2005. It's a small sample for him, but doesn't bode well.

Thanks for the stat. Disturbing to some degree, but then again, Bayless has never had a clearly defined role. He'll get one over the next 40-60 games, and I expect that number to improve.
 
My logic is that, there are two(three) options, based around starting Bayless at PG, since he's doing well, for 10 games.
1 If the team wins more, keep him there.
2 If the team does not improve, package him up and ship him out with Rudy or a first round pick for some talent.
(3 KP already has his mind made up and wants to ship him out already.)
 
My logic is that, there are two(three) options, based around starting Bayless at PG, since he's doing well, for 10 games.
1 If the team wins more, keep him there.
2 If the team does not improve, package him up and ship him out with Rudy or a first round pick for some talent.
(3 KP already has his mind made up and wants to ship him out already.)

If the team goes 2-8, the playoffs become difficult. I'm hoping the team isn't giving up at this point. There is still talent, and Miller and BLANKY are playing about as poorly as they can right now. I expect them both to improve and fill the roles expected of them, and I hope Bayless can be the "Outlaw spark" off of the bench.
 
If the team goes 2-8, the playoffs become difficult. I'm hoping the team isn't giving up at this point. There is still talent, and Miller and BLANKY are playing about as poorly as they can right now. I expect them both to improve and fill the roles expected of them, and I hope Bayless can be the "Outlaw spark" off of the bench.

would you be interested in trying if the team goes 2-8 without that change?
 
So is your suggestion to neevr start Bayless? Continue to start Blake?

No, my suggestion is to define parameters around putting Bayless in, whether starting him (which would be a mistake in my opinion), or putting him 2nd string ahead of Blake.

It's just this endless loop that occurs every year with players on the bench, or rookies, etc. where people are convinced that player X (Telfair, Sergio, Bayless?) is the next greatest thing we've ever seen in our entire lives and that the coach is screwing over the player and us by not letting, nay forcing, said player to play 48 minutes out. Either that or the one bright and shining example of Jermaine O'Neal that gets trotted out every time a rookie shows promise.

I'm honestly asking of those wishing Bayless to start, at what point do you objectively say "Player X is not living up to potential or should not be starting." And you can't just say "When someone else plays better!" because in that circle-of-life game you'd always be wanting to start the bench player to see if they could do better.

Also, briefly, when someone goes "We might as well just play him to get him ready for next season"..to me, that is giving up. It's still very early in the season. Why is it so upsetting to some to wait a little bit before waving the white flag?
 
would you be interested in trying if the team goes 2-8 without that change?

Yes, I'd be much more willing to consider it at that point. Lots has happend since Saturday; I'd like to see how the veterans Przy, Miller, and Blake respond for an extended stretch.
 
No, my suggestion is to define parameters around putting Bayless in, whether starting him (which would be a mistake in my opinion), or putting him 2nd string ahead of Blake.

It's just this endless loop that occurs every year with players on the bench, or rookies, etc. where people are convinced that player X (Telfair, Sergio, Bayless?) is the next greatest thing we've ever seen in our entire lives and that the coach is screwing over the player and us by not letting, nay forcing, said player to play 48 minutes out. Either that or the one bright and shining example of Jermaine O'Neal that gets trotted out every time a rookie shows promise.

I'm honestly asking of those wishing Bayless to start, at what point do you objectively say "Player X is not living up to potential or should not be starting." And you can't just say "When someone else plays better!" because in that circle-of-life game you'd always be wanting to start the bench player to see if they could do better.

see above:

My logic is that, there are two(three) options, based around starting Bayless at PG, since he's doing well, for 10 games.
1 If the team wins more, keep him there.
2 If the team does not improve, package him up and ship him out with Rudy or a first round pick for some talent.
(3 KP already has his mind made up and wants to ship him out already.)
 
Yes, I'd be much more willing to consider it at that point. Lots has happend since Saturday; I'd like to see how the veterans Przy, Miller, and Blake respond for an extended stretch.

fair enough. I understand your point, I guess I just think it won't be as awful as you think; or rather worse than it is now.
 
fair enough. I understand your point, I guess I just think it won't be as awful as you think; or rather worse than it is now.

I can't wait to see Bayless get some run. I think he's a Vinnie Johnson-type, but with better athleticism. If that's what the Blazers end up getting out of him over the next few years, I'll be thrilled as a fan. If he develops into a starting PG that can lead a team to a title, that's extra gravy.
 
As poorly as Blake and Miller are playing, what is the downside to giving Bayless more minutes? You make it sound as if the "pro-Bayless crowd" is advocating disrupting a winning team just for the sake of their favorite player. In fact, it's hard to imagine how playing Bayless could make matters worse - and there is always the slim chance it will make things better. :dunno:

The thread is "start Bayless", not "give Bayless more minutes".

If people got upset over Miller going to the bench, I can't wait to see Miller on the bench behind Bayless.

Worried about Bayless jumping ship? You might as well watch Miller mail it in if Bayless is placed ahead of him in the starting lineup.
 
see above:

Well thanks for answering the question..I appreciate it.

I think that you'd never be able to trade Bayless and Rudy for talent..at least not the first half of the year.

Even after ten games most GMs wouldn't be willing to invest an important draft pick or player for Bayless' value. And Rudy..well..he's going to be a few months before he can even begin to rebuild the value he had from last year (and subsequently lost at the beginning of this year)
 
One of the most fundamental goals of this season now should be to integrate Bayless in as PG with Roy, so they'll both be ready to go as permanent back court mates next year when we get back into contention.

DO IT!

Either that or find out once and for all if he can play or not. This is literally a no lose situation.
 
Either that or find out once and for all if he can play or not. This is literally a no lose situation.

He's going to get that chance, but it's going to be off of the bench to begin his journey. If people can't handle that, oh well.
 
I have no problem with Bayless getting more minutes. With Rudy and Outlaw out, he's going to get 20-28 mpg for the rest of the season, as he should. I feel he's needed off of the bench, for reasons I posted earlier in this thread. The Blazer fans are going to get an extended look at Bayless. I say let him settle into a role, become a contributer, and assess at later points as the season progresses.

Agree with bolded. Unfortunately, last night he only had 17. Miller and Blake combined for 64.
 
I wish I had faith that it will change, but I don't. Blake will play too many minutes.

That's subjective, as are most things here. Bayless will get more minutes. I am confident of that.
 
That's subjective, as are most things here. Bayless will get more minutes. I am confident of that.

There's no doubt he'll get more minutes, but idk if he'll get enough minutes. IMO, that's at least 25min a game.
 
He's going to get that chance, but it's going to be off of the bench to begin his journey. If people can't handle that, oh well.

It won't be the end of the world if Bayless never starts, but he should get a proportional amount of time to his success, yes? Perhaps he could play off the bench with Blake, they seem like they would make a nice combo like Roy and Blake.:dunno:
 
It won't be the end of the world if Bayless never starts, but he should get a proportional amount of time to his success, yes? Perhaps he could play off the bench with Blake, they seem like they would make a nice combo like Roy and Blake.:dunno:

As I said, I'm looking forward to Bayless getting more minutes. It's up to him at this point what he does with them.
 
I don't see what starting him does for the team. It's not like he's a good player with the ball out of his hands.


Very true.

That might be why Bayless demanded the trade. Perhaps (long term) he doesn't see himself developing into an NBA PG while having to share the floor with a ball dominant guard like BRoy.

I see Bayless as a sparkplug guard off the bench. He'd probably be happy with that role (for now) but Miller is ahead of him on the depth chart. In fact that may be why Bayless made the trade demand... to put more pressure on the front office to trade Andre Miller.
 
Bayless has shown immense potential at every level he has played on, and on a team that has struggled to score the ball all year, even when healthy really, I don't see how not letting Bayless get significant PT really helps them at this point. Roy is putting up nice numbers right now, but he won't be able to keep putting up these crazy numbers without being worn down doing so. Bring it into perspective, you need more than 1 or 2 guys creating offense if you want to win and not be worn down. Bayless and Andre Miller are the only other guys besides Roy and Aldridge that is healthy right now that can score that I see right now. Bayless had top 5 potential before he fell because he was a "tweener" really but here's the chance presenting itself to see what he can do in a Barbosa or Terry type role really.
 
What I find kind of weird and funny is that we're actually STILL finding way to argue about PT and roles ... this team is literally down to 9 mostly healthy players, even if Roy and Aldridge and Przy are soaking up tons of minutes we're still talking about reserves that feature one rookie tweener 3/4 a 36 year old Juwan Howard, a 21 year old combo guard, and a 33 year old point guard.

I don't care who starts, they're all going to play and probably play a lot. Anybody worried about fit or time or roles on this team needs a heavy dose of perspective.
 
What I find kind of weird and funny is that we're actually STILL finding way to argue about PT and roles ... this team is literally down to 9 mostly healthy players, even if Roy and Aldridge and Przy are soaking up tons of minutes we're still talking about reserves that feature one rookie tweener 3/4 a 36 year old Juwan Howard, a 21 year old combo guard, and a 33 year old point guard.

I don't care who starts, they're all going to play and probably play a lot. Anybody worried about fit or time or roles on this team needs a heavy dose of perspective.

I've posted this at least 3 times in this thread. :cheers:
 
I don't care who starts, they're all going to play and probably play a lot. Anybody worried about fit or time or roles on this team needs a heavy dose of perspective.

Well, I'm not getting any playing time. What about meeeeee?

barfo
 

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