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BrianFromWA said:
Agree with bolded. Unfortunately, last night he only had 17. Miller and Blake combined for 64.
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I have no probs at all with Bayless coming off the bench if he gets 25 minutes a night or more. If he keeps playing well I'd like to see him "tried" with Roy as a starter later in the season.
 
To me ts seems in the NY game, the team was down to nine players and Bayless only got like 17 m. So I see why the OP titled this thread the way he did.
I see also why some are concerned in how Bayless was used and is it going to continue?

Could not Bayless start with Roy and bring in Blake and Miller off the bench? Or at least play them in those combos. Would it work?
 
Hell yes it would work! I saw JB in the lobby today and he said thanks for starting this thread! I told him he has the green light and to shoot it every time he touches it! Career night for Bayless tonight! Count on it!
 
Man, HCP, that avatar busts me up.

I'd love to see Bayless get some serious burn.
 
Nikolokolus said:
What I find kind of weird and funny is that we're actually STILL finding way to argue about PT and roles ... this team is literally down to 9 mostly healthy players, even if Roy and Aldridge and Przy are soaking up tons of minutes we're still talking about reserves that feature one rookie tweener 3/4 a 36 year old Juwan Howard, a 21 year old combo guard, and a 33 year old point guard.

I don't care who starts, they're all going to play and probably play a lot. Anybody worried about fit or time or roles on this team needs a heavy dose of perspective.
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Exactly.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Agree with bolded. Unfortunately, last night he only had 17. Miller and Blake combined for 64.
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I am happy we won but Bayless at 17 min is not what I want to see, especially as Blake and Miller continue to play mediocre ball. If he was behind a star then okay, but playing limited minutes behind these two guys is jus a cryin shame.
 
The thing that is so frustrating about it is that he plays well in the time that he gets. Its not like he comes off the bench and hurts the team. I dont think anyone is saying he is going to be a superstar if he got more playing time. I think there are very few people who even think he think he will be a superstar in the long run. I do think most people think he is definitely going to get better with more experience.

But we are not in the future, we are in the present. What do you do in the present? You do whatever you can to be a better team right now and prepare for the future if you can.

What we do know, right now, is that he is a good role player that fills a couple needs (a bench player that takes it to the rim and is a high energy guy) for a team that is short on players and high on available playing time. What we also know right now is that he has great potential to be the perfect fit next to Roy. Why not take advantage of the opportunity that has so obviously slapped the coaching staff right across the face? Stubborness? Im struggling to find another answer. As the struggle continues I lose more and more confidence in the coaching staff.

If Bayless cant get more time now when its available and he cant get more playing time against a team like the Pacers that doesnt have any sort of dominant guard mismatch for Bayless then who is he going to get playing time against? Scary thought isnt it?
 
J_Ray said:
Bayless has shown immense potential at every level he has played on, and on a team that has struggled to score the ball all year, even when healthy really, I don't see how not letting Bayless get significant PT really helps them at this point. Roy is putting up nice numbers right now, but he won't be able to keep putting up these crazy numbers without being worn down doing so. Bring it into perspective, you need more than 1 or 2 guys creating offense if you want to win and not be worn down. Bayless and Andre Miller are the only other guys besides Roy and Aldridge that is healthy right now that can score that I see right now. Bayless had top 5 potential before he fell because he was a "tweener" really but here's the chance presenting itself to see what he can do in a Barbosa or Terry type role really.
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With Outlaw and Rudy out we desperately need a scorer off the bench, Bayless has shown he's very capable of that.
 
Boise Blazer said:
The thing that is so frustrating about it is that he plays well in the time that he gets. Its not like he comes off the bench and hurts the team. I dont think anyone is saying he is going to be a superstar if he got more playing time. I think there are very few people who even think he think he will be a superstar in the long run. I do think most people think he is definitely going to get better with more experience.

But we are not in the future, we are in the present. What do you do in the present? You do whatever you can to be a better team right now and prepare for the future if you can.

What we do know, right now, is that he is a good role player that fills a couple needs (a bench player that takes it to the rim and is a high energy guy) for a team that is short on players and high on available playing time. What we also know right now is that he has great potential to be the perfect fit next to Roy. Why not take advantage of the opportunity that has so obviously slapped the coaching staff right across the face? Stubborness? Im struggling to find another answer. As the struggle continues I lose more and more confidence in the coaching staff.

If Bayless cant get more time now when its available and he cant get more playing time against a team like the Pacers that doesnt have any sort of dominant guard mismatch for Bayless then who is he going to get playing time against? Scary thought isnt it?
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Yes, nicely said and what many of us have been screaming for days and days, what seems so obvious to us does not seem obvious to the coaches - it's a mystery to me.
 
PapaG said:
Bayless will get more minutes. I am confident of that.
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Yea, I'm confident that those more minutes will come when he on a different team. I can't wait for that day we play against him and he torches us. Bayless can easily be a allstar in this league. Sadly he won't be on the Blazers when he does it.
 
I won't go as far as he will become an all-star in the future, but I do know he could help our team right now!
 
I have already alluded to this in another thread, but if you look at the team right now, LA and Roy have to put up nearly 60 pts a game just to keep us in the game. Especially with how we are playing defense right now. We are not going to win many games doing that, unless those two really step up and become the studs that we thought they would be, and a little more.
 
"THE" HCP said:
I won't go as far as he will become an all-star in the future, but I do know he could help our team right now!
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Imagine that, you give a kid that has a warriors mentality some run and he carries the team to a victory. I know it's only one game, but damn that was good to see! I don't care if he starts or not, but he needs 25-30 minutes a game!
 
I am seriously worried about what will happen when Rudy is back. Miller or Blake needs to be gone by then. I don't care which. But, referring to the title of this thread, Bayless should come off the bench. Bayless and Fernandez 1-2 punch off the bench sounds good to me.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I am seriously worried about what will happen when Rudy is back. Miller or Blake needs to be gone by then. I don't care which. But, referring to the title of this thread, Bayless should come off the bench. Bayless and Fernandez 1-2 punch off the bench sounds good to me.
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We will have a much better sampling, but we seem to get off to better starts wit Miller starting and we finish stronger with Bayless in late and Roy being the PG.

What are we now 10-2 when Miller starts at the point and 6-9 when he doesn't?
 
Schilly said:
We will have a much better sampling, but we seem to get off to better starts wit Miller starting and we finish stronger with Bayless in late and Roy being the PG.

What are we now 10-2 when Miller starts at the point and 6-9 when he doesn't?
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I would much rather keep Miller than Blake. But If Miller has to go for someone to go, I'd take it. With Rudy back, and no changes, Bayless would barely play (unless Nate gets smarter and switches Blake and Bayless in the rotation). This is what I would want the perimeter rotation to be with everyone healthy.

PG: Miller (26), Bayless (16), Fernandez (6)
SG: Roy (18), Fernandez (20), Bayless (10)
SF: Batum (26), Roy (18), Webster (4)

Miller, Bayless and Fernandez each get 26 minutes, with it obviously differing a little bit from night to night based on how particular games are going.

Roy gets 36 minutes, which can easily increase if it needs to.

Batum gets 26 minutes.
 
VanillaGorilla said:
I am seriously worried about what will happen when Rudy is back. Miller or Blake needs to be gone by then. I don't care which. But, referring to the title of this thread, Bayless should come off the bench. Bayless and Fernandez 1-2 punch off the bench sounds good to me.
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Not to be Danny Downer, but keep in mind that very few players make a 100% recovery from serious back problems. IMHO, it would be a mistake for the team to deal someone to clear playing time for Rudy, when they have no idea when or if Rudy will be able to contribute serious minutes.
 
If I had to choose between Bayless and Rudy for this team, right now, with Rudy being 100%, I'd go with Bayless. He draws fouls, his shot is continually improving, and he has the potential to be a very nice defender against point guards. And he's a fantastic one-two punch with Roy.

Imagine you're a back court defender trying to guard the Roy/Bayless tandem. One second you're guarding this bigger ultra-crafty, slow-motion guy with a lethal midrange jumper, and on a switch you're suddenly trying to stay in front of a speedster whose mission in life is to get at the rim and hit as many bodies as possible on the way. It's a matchup nightmare, particularly for opposing point guards.

On the other hand, there's no real changeup with guarding Miller, Blake or Fernandez when they have the ball. None of them are particularly quick with the ball. You pretty much guard them about like you'd guard Roy. If Roy/Ferndanez/Blake is on the perimeter, you guard them all the same way (stay tight, don't leave your feet on the jump shot). If Roy/Miller are in the paint, you guard them the same way (don't get suckered into jumping, watch for sneaky pivot moves, beware of the dump pass).

If you try guarding Bayless anywhere on the court the same way you guard Roy, you are going to get blown by.

Have Miller or Blake had a single dominating game this year like Bayless just did? It's a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league. Bayless has done it while our other two PG's have mostly stunk it up all year. I don't know if you start him or not (I really liked how Miller looked in the first quarter), but Bayless in my mind is a 30 mpg player until he proves otherwise.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Not to be Danny Downer, but keep in mind that very few players make a 100% recovery from serious back problems. IMHO, it would be a mistake for the team to deal someone to clear playing time for Rudy, when they have no idea when or if Rudy will be able to contribute serious minutes.
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Good thing it supposedly wasn't a serious problem... ;)
 
mook said:
If I had to choose between Bayless and Rudy for this team, right now, with Rudy being 100%, I'd go with Bayless. He draws fouls, his shot is continually improving, and he has the potential to be a very nice defender against point guards. And he's a fantastic one-two punch with Roy.
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I like Rudy a lot and think he is a very heady player. But, he seems to be unable to really penetrate and do anything in the paint. If it is not an open back door cut off a lob, he really is limited. Great vision and movement, but more suited for the European game.

Bayless OTOH seems to have a basic NBA--he just needs to refine it and improve on what is already there. I would love to see him develop playing with Roy and eventually being the starter. He's not there yet, but could be soon.

Personally, I would rather see the team rack up a couple more losses this year and get Bayless on track, than to fail to develop him in favor of Miller.
 
Reep said:
I like Rudy a lot and think he is a very heady player. But, he seems to be unable to really penetrate and do anything in the paint. If it is not an open back door cut off a lob, he really is limited. Great vision and movement, but more suited for the European game.

Bayless OTOH seems to have a basic NBA--he just needs to refine it and improve on what is already there. I would love to see him develop playing with Roy and eventually being the starter. He's not there yet, but could be soon.

Personally, I would rather see the team rack up a couple more losses this year and get Bayless on track, than to fail to develop him in favor of Miller.
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I wouldn't sell Rudy short, he's a terrific shooting guard and in a system where he can do nothing but cut off of screens and catch and shoot (ala Rip Hamilton or Kevin Martin) he's a guy who has potential to be a really nice starting 2 and that's not specific to just the Euroleague.

The real trouble with Rudy is that he doesn't seem to compliment Roy (and vice versa) all that well despite the lack of overlap in their games. Part of the problem is that Rudy is not a good enough ball-handler and if those two were to ever become a starting backcourt Roy would be required to bring the ball up on every possession which only wears him down further. The other larger issue is that while Bayless is only an "emerging" defender at the point, Rudy will never have the lateral quickness to stay in front of most ones in the league and already lacks the strength to fight over or through a pick.

Assuming Jerryd continues his string of good play and can adjust to the fact that defenses are going to start scouting him then you have to wonder where they are going to find minutes for all of the guards and wings on this team once bodies start coming off the IR.

I wouldn't do anything right now, but once they get Rudy back and are closer to the trade deadline I'd give strong consideration to packaging Miller, Rudy and maybe Travis or Martell and using them go out and get some legitimate help at small forward and possibly bring in a backup power forward or forward-center of some sort.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I
Part of the problem is that Rudy is not a good enough ball-handler and if those two were to ever become a starting backcourt Roy would be required to bring the ball up on every possession which only wears him down further.
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I'm not abig fan of this line of thinking. I'd say a team offers full court pressure 5% of the time in the NBA, and token pressure 15-20%. The type of pressure a guard will put on an opposing PG bringing the ball up is something Rudy can easily handle. We've been fine the last two years with Blake in the PG slot, and with Roy handling when there is actual pressure. I don't think a few plays a night is going to wear someone out. And if he was bringing the ball up on every possession, the 5 dribbles it takes to get across isn't going to kill him any mroe than running up the floor to get into position.
 
RR7 said:
I'm not abig fan of this line of thinking. I'd say a team offers full court pressure 5% of the time in the NBA, and token pressure 15-20%. The type of pressure a guard will put on an opposing PG bringing the ball up is something Rudy can easily handle. We've been fine the last two years with Blake in the PG slot, and with Roy handling when there is actual pressure. I don't think a few plays a night is going to wear someone out. And if he was bringing the ball up on every possession, the 5 dribbles it takes to get across isn't going to kill him any mroe than running up the floor to get into position.
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I assumed he meant ball handling in traffic. Rudy does fine bringing the ball up the court, but when he is out front on the pick and roll he doesn't seem to be able to handle the ball well in traffic.
 
Schilly said:
Good thing it supposedly wasn't a serious problem... ;)
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So much of our board is just out of control hyperbole in one direction or another, it's been nice to have a familiar voice of reason chiming in lately

to the OP... last night capped (in a big way) how Bayless has been demonstrating he deserves a bigger role this year. That has obviously been the club's hope since trading for him as he's been the super athletic high draft choice sitting on the bench behind a mediocre starter. I don't see anything particularly wrong with this though and think having Blake as his mentor could help temper JB's scorer's mentality. Dude is going to need to play off the ball and pick his spots to blend with Brandon LA and company and Steve does move the ball.

Unfortunately this year Blake has been demonstrating he probably deserves something else entirely... and he's an expiring contract. I suspect all this fretting over Bayless's role/minutes will turn out to be much to do about nothing. As long as JB continues to perform he's going to get more burn... between age, contracts, athletic ability and performance, the writing on the wall reads pretty clear where things are headed

STOMP
 
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