Starters opening night?

[1 Eye Jack]

Which lineup do you like best for opening night? I choose A but if Batum plays like he did against Utah I might change to C. I personally don't like Travis as a starter.

A
Blake
Rudy
Roy
LMA
Oden

B
Blake
Roy
Travis
LMA
Oden

C
Blake
Roy
Batum
LMA
Oden

 

[Tortimer]

I'm about the same as you and would go with A but if Batum keeps improving I might have to go with C. I'm just hoping Rudy gets back for the last 3 pre-season games and they at least try the A starting lineup in one of the last three remaining pre-season games.

 

[THE HCP]

I think next Monday you will see A

 

[mook]

I like A the most, but I'd also be happy to see C if Batum looks like he's for real in real NBA games.

I was interested in seeing Outlaw get some starts, but it just doesn't look like he's a great fit in that first unit.

I really hope Batum works out. He's got the easiest starting position you can imagine for a 19 year old rookie. He doesn't have to create plays (Roy, Blake and Oden do that). He doesn't have to score (everybody else can do that). There really isn't that much pressure on him.

His only real job is to not get in the way, take the shot when left wide open, and to work his tail off on the defensive end.

 

[andalusian]

I think we will see A as well - but I would not count Travis out just yet. Yes, he struggled in the first unit so far - but Travis for all of his qualities - sometimes needs things explained to him over a little bit of time before he gets them. I suspect that sooner or later he will get it and then - his talents will mesh well with that unit.

 

[timmay]

Here's where the question gets more fun:

Let's say that Batum continues to impress, and Nate goes with C for the starting line-up...

If Batum holds his own, how does he handle starting and minutes when Martell returns?

 

[THE HCP]

Here's where the question gets more fun:

Let's say that Batum continues to impress, and Nate goes with C for the starting line-up...

If Batum holds his own, how does he handle starting and minutes when Martell returns?

That's what we call "trade time"!

 

[1 Eye Jack]

I think we will see A as well - but I would not count Travis out just yet. Yes, he struggled in the first unit so far - but Travis for all of his qualities - sometimes needs things explained to him over a little bit of time before he gets them. I suspect that sooner or later he will get it and then - his talents will mesh well with that unit.

I just don't think Travis's skillset works with the starters. Travis does one thing well and thats shoot (not a great percentage either). He doesn't pass, can't create shots for others and is at best a below average rebounder and defender. Travis's best skill is creating his own shot so all the rest of the starters would be standing around waiting for Travis to create his own shot knowing they aren't going to get a pass if they are open.

Rudy creates major problems for other teams if he's in the starting lineup. He's obviously a threat with and without the ball, a good passer and makes players around him better. Down side is this means Roy is playing out of position although IMO he's capable of playing SF and might actually be less work for him except against the elite players like Melo and LeBron but a lot of the time last year he was matched against these guys at the end of games.

Batum is kind of an unknown. We have seen some great progress but the level of competition goes up 10 fold in the regular season. Still I love what I've seen so far. He can play NBA defense now. The question is teams will sag off him (and onto Oden and LMA) can he hit the open shots because he will get lots of them.

I would try the Rudy/Roy experiment first and if it didn't work out I wouldn't hesitate to put Batum in as my starter on opening night. No offense to Travis he's just not a good fit with the starters.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I think that in our first five games we play a bunch of teams with stud wings. There is a definite need for a ballhawking wing to start against guys like T-Mac, K*be, etc. Nate and KP have already said his defense is at a starting level.

When Webs comes back, I think that he (Batum) will continue to get minutes (whether or not he starts), and that'll be the time to make the decision on Travis vs. Martell (if we haven't yet). If you make me decide, I say that unless we light the world on fire and create a Wally Pipp situation (which I don't think we'll do), Webs will start when he gets back b/c of his increased familiarity and comfort with the starting unit and his superior offensive game. But in my Happy Place I think about a 2nd line of Sergio, Rudy, Webs, Frye, Przy going nuts running up and down the floor for 15 minutes a game.

Unlike Travis, I haven't seen much from Batum to make me dislike his game.

 

[mook]

Batum is kind of an unknown. We have seen some great progress but the level of competition goes up 10 fold in the regular season. Still I love what I've seen so far. He can play NBA defense now. The question is teams will sag off him (and onto Oden and LMA) can he hit the open shots because he will get lots of them.

I've been thinking about that, and I really I don't know if it's that big of a deal if teams sag off him and he can't make them pay with a perimeter shot. Between Aldridge, Oden, Roy and Fernandez, there's just so much scoring potential there that teams can't base their entire defense off of just sagging off one guy. And if they do, Batum should get lots of dunking opportunities with all our good passers.

There aren't a lot of teams that can win playing 5 on 4 on offense, but we might have one of them. Hopefully we won't have to, though.

 

[LameR]

At this point, it's easily A. The problem with that becomes who plays on the wing with the white unit? I don't see a lineup with Bayless/Batum/Outlaw being especially effective, but at the same time it should be assumed Rudy and Roy will both get a lot of minutes, and will end up playing with some of the white unit players.

 

[Mediocre Man]

A seems the most likely. It's probably the best one of the three as well

 

[BrianFromWA]

You're probably right LameR, but I wouldn't say "easily". I think Nate likes that he can put a straight defender into the starting lineup, and have Batum running the other team's wing ragged. I agree with you that the late-game lineup probably will be A, but I still think there's a chance Batum starts, Rudy's first off the bench, plays a bunch of minutes and finishes the game.

Same way he was used on the Spanish team.

 

[mook]

At this point, it's easily A. The problem with that becomes who plays on the wing with the white unit? I don't see a lineup with Bayless/Batum/Outlaw being especially effective, but at the same time it should be assumed Rudy and Roy will both get a lot of minutes, and will end up playing with some of the white unit players.

You ditch the idea of the white unit. You sub in individually Outlaw, Sergio, Frye, Przybilla and Batum. But at all times you should have (at the very least) two of Aldridge, Oden, Roy and Fernandez on the court.

Boston does the same thing. You almost never see all three of their Big Three on the bench.

Barring injury, I see Bayless and Frye getting the most frustrated with P/T. Bayless because he won't be playing at all. Frye because he's just not going to get many minutes behind Aldridge.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Like almost everyone else I think the As have it.

The sentimentalist in me would love to see Travis start clicking because a think a successful Travis spells success for the team and makes our rotations that much more potent.

 

[andalusian]

I just don't think Travis's skillset works with the starters. Travis does one thing well and thats shoot (not a great percentage either). He doesn't pass, can't create shots for others and is at best a below average rebounder and defender. Travis's best skill is creating his own shot so all the rest of the starters would be standing around waiting for Travis to create his own shot knowing they aren't going to get a pass if they are open.

You know - I kind of disagree there. Travis is a slow learner. But he assists more than Martell per minute (or did last year) and rebounds better than Webster per minute. If Travis is a below-average rebounder - Webster is atrocious. (6.2 vs 5 per 36 minutes). Both are bad at assists (Travis dished 1.7 per 36 minutes, Webster only 1.5).

The arguments that Travis is bad at creating for others/rebounding may be right - but he is still (shock) better than Webster. When you consider that Webster played most of the time with the 1st unit and had more capable people to pass to - it is astounding that Travis assists at a higher rate than him...

Travis's problem is that he has to adjust to playing a different game and understanding how he can be effective in it. Once he figures it out (and it will take some time, I love Travis for his gifts and attitude - but he is not a natural when it comes to understanding and having a feel for the game) - I suspect he will be effective in this role.

I doubt he will be ready to contribute in this manner at the start of the year - but if the coaching staff thinks he can grow into this role and get it eventually - I would not be surprised if they let him start this way and take the lumps with it until he gets it (or they think he is never going to get it).

 

[1 Eye Jack]

You know - I kind of disagree there. Travis is a slow learner. But he assists more than Martell per minute (or did last year) and rebounds better than Webster per minute. If Travis is a below-average rebounder - Webster is atrocious. (6.2 vs 5 per 36 minutes). Both are bad at assists (Travis dished 1.7 per 36 minutes, Webster only 1.5).

The arguments that Travis is bad at creating for others/rebounding may be right - but he is still (shock) better than Webster. When you consider that Webster played most of the time with the 1st unit and had more capable people to pass to - it is astounding that Travis assists at a higher rate than him...

Travis's problem is that he has to adjust to playing a different game and understanding how he can be effective in it. Once he figures it out (and it will take some time, I love Travis for his gifts and attitude - but he is not a natural when it comes to understanding and having a feel for the game) - I suspect he will be effective in this role.

I doubt he will be ready to contribute in this manner at the start of the year - but if the coaching staff thinks he can grow into this role and get it eventually - I would not be surprised if they let him start this way and take the lumps with it until he gets it (or they think he is never going to get it).

All great points and good stats except their is a reason Travis didn't start last year. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective. When he doesn't he disappears. He also needs room to operate which doesn't work well with the group we will have with him on the floor. He settles for jump shots which isn't a great option when you have two premier big men and one of the best SG's in the game. If he dedicated himself to being a defensive stopper or a premier rebounding SF my opinion might differ but he does neither. Webster isn't perfect but he was the best fit at starter. I also like what Batum brings to the court. He gives you a very good defender, decent rebounder, very high BBIQ and doesn't need the ball to be effective with the starters (perfect complimentary player)

 

[andalusian]

All great points and good stats except their is a reason Travis didn't start last year.

The main reason Travis did not start last year was because we needed scoring from the bench. Should be much less of an issue with Rudy/Bayless on the bench this year.

I am not saying it is certain that Travis could, with time, work with the first unit - but I am not willing to ignore it after such a short trial period when we know that Travis is a slow learner.

FWIW - I like Batum a lot as well. Really surprised me since the fan fest - much less of a project than expected.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Travis said he's more comfortable off the bench more recently than he said he wanted to start. Keep him on the bench because he's primarily a scorer who wants to be the first option.

Rudy is a much more complete team player than Travis is. He's the perfect complement to our big three, will do all the little things that Travis just can't figure out.

Concerning Martell: if Rudy starts and hes off the hizzy, then I see Martell shifting (reluctantly) into a James Jones type role, with less minutes. Someone in there to stretch the defense and try to hit big shots. He won't be as effective as Jones, but give him time. But seriously, splitting minutes between Jerryd, Roy, Rudy, Martell, Travis and Batum? Someone is going to get traded.

 

[andalusian]

But seriously, splitting minutes between Jerryd, Roy, Rudy, Martell, Travis and Batum? Someone is going to get traded.

...and that someone is not Roy. It would also have to be something spectacular to be Rudy, I would guess.

 

[ebott]

A, no question. Travis is a scrub and the sooner we can package him for someone useful the better.

Batum doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Even in the games he did well he looked lost.

 

[BlazerWookee]

If tonight was opening night, it'd be C. I think on opening night, it'll be B.

 

[Ed O]

I'm in favor of getting our best players on the floor at positions they can excel in, and I think that A pushes a guy out of position and C puts a guy too young to handle a starting spot... so it's B for me.

I'm not convinced that Outlaw is ready to be an NBA starter, but I'd prefer to give him a chance to show he's NOT than to go with a 6'5" small forward or a 19 year-old Batum.

Ed O.

 

[blazerboy30]

You know - I kind of disagree there. Travis is a slow learner. But he assists more than Martell per minute (or did last year) and rebounds better than Webster per minute. If Travis is a below-average rebounder - Webster is atrocious. (6.2 vs 5 per 36 minutes). Both are bad at assists (Travis dished 1.7 per 36 minutes, Webster only 1.5).

The arguments that Travis is bad at creating for others/rebounding may be right - but he is still (shock) better than Webster. When you consider that Webster played most of the time with the 1st unit and had more capable people to pass to - it is astounding that Travis assists at a higher rate than him...

I think the above stats are misleading.

Travis averaged more assists than webster, but what about assists / attempts ratio, or assists / touches ratio? I believe that Travis gets the ball many more times than Webster, and thus has many more opportunities to luck into an assist. Travis is a blackhole, and even though he averaged more assists/min than webster, I don't think Webster can be considered a blackhole. Webster just doesn't do much with the ball when he gets it.

 

[andalusian]

I think the above stats are misleading.

Travis averaged more assists than webster, but what about assists / attempts ratio, or assists / touches ratio? I believe that Travis gets the ball many more times than Webster, and thus has many more opportunities to luck into an assist. Travis is a blackhole, and even though he averaged more assists/min than webster, I don't think Webster can be considered a blackhole. Webster just doesn't do much with the ball when he gets it.

Travis had a specific role on the 2nd unit - to shoot and score. He did what was required of him. To extrapolate from here and label him as a black-hole is unfair imho. He deserves a chance like anyone else to show what he can do with the first unit. Unfortunately, Travis seems slow when it comes to understanding basketball. It took him a long time to get to where he got so far - and I do not expect him to somehow become a natural basketball player with a feel for the game over-night.

If this team was blessed with more options at the SF position - we could just say that it is what it is and continue on our merry way with other options - but the fact is that Travis has the body / size / length to play SF, he has unique athletic gifts that when utilized properly make him very hard to guard and he is a good locker room/team guy. Unfortunately, Martell got wounded and the options we are presented with are playing Roy out of position for long stretches of the game (something I think he can do many nights, but not all), play Batum who is still not experienced enough - or have to accept that it might take Travis a bit of time to find his rhythm in a different role.

 

[STOMP]

Unless there is an injury, it's going to be B. Travis is the best SF on the club and Nate will give him the honor because he's the vet... count on it.

STOMP

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm going with

Blake
Roy
Batum
Aldridge
Oden

 

[STOMP]

All great points and good stats except their is a reason Travis didn't start last year. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective.

sorry but thats not it. He came off the bench because he could be the focus of an attack, which was something the 2nd unit lacked. After Roy and maybe LA, he was the best guy on the club at creating his shot... he got to the line at a decent rate as well. Conversely Martell has not shown the ability to do more then stand in the corner and spread the court with his deep threat. Thats not a hard role if a guys got a jumper which both of them do. Quotes from Travis this summer lead me to believe that the coaching staff is projecting him to be filling this role more now that Jones is gone. And since Martell is now shelved, I expect to see it a lot more.

The other reason MW landed the starting role was hot pre-season play... unfortunately it didn't carry over to the regular season.

STOMP

 

[MARIS61]

Sergio
Rudy
Travis
Lamarcus
Greg

 

[alex42083]

I don't think even Nate knows who he's going to start opening night. If it were to start tomorrow, I'd say they would still start Travis. But Batum is gaining a lot of steam and could be there if he continues to show what he's showing.

I wouldn't discount Rudy in the starting lineup but I like what he gives off the bench in a Ginobili kind of way, and he changes the pace of the game so well, which is what you want your bench to do.