Steve Francis Offically a Knick

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lol, can someone please explain to me what this is supposed to do for your team?

The trade isn't bad when considering what you traded him for, but I just don't see what this really does?

An undersized backcourt, 2 guy's who are only really effective with the ball in the hands. No true outside shooting in the backcourt, interesting, at least Francis can play some D because of how athletic he is.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you crazy? All point guards turn the ball over a lot. That's why Jason Kidd, Isiah Thomas, Penny Hardaway, John Stockton, Magic Johnson....and almost every other elite point guard has led the league in turnovers.
43% career from the fiels is pretty good for a career 20ppg scorer. Kidd is a career 40% shooter. Isiah 45%. Magic 46%. Gil Arenas 42%. Should I keep going? LB is the one asking Isiah to get Francis.

You lose on all four points. Once again, STFU.</div>
Are we comparing Francis turning the ball over a lot while averaging 6 APG and 18-20 PPG to guys who turn it over while averaging 10 APG?
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">lol, can someone please explain to me what this is supposed to do for your team?</div>
Supposed to be the second coming of Clyde and the Pearl according to Isiah.

It's a huge hit or miss. We'll just have to see what happens.
 
I'm sorry, but I just don't see how 144 minutes could be split between Marbury, Francis, Rose, Richardson, Crawford, Robinson, and Qyntel Woods. Someone's gotta go.
 
Isiah is on crack, just like Jerome James was supposed to even get minutes on this team. It's definately not going to be anything close to that, but I mean it's not like you guys are going to get worse, so...

Their's going to be some interesting lineups now. Both Francis and Marbury will be playing at least 36 MPG, so they'll have to have some lineups with Crawford at SF, unless the max MPG he can get is ~24 MPG, probably less. A 3 small guard 1-3 will be quite interesting. Then their's the other guys who need minutes, lol, too many G/SF's.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you crazy? All point guards turn the ball over a lot. That's why Jason Kidd, Isiah Thomas, Penny Hardaway, John Stockton, Magic Johnson....and almost every other elite point guard has led the league in turnovers.
43% career from the fiels is pretty good for a career 20ppg scorer. Kidd is a career 40% shooter. Isiah 45%. Magic 46%. Gil Arenas 42%. Should I keep going? LB is the one asking Isiah to get Francis.

You lose on all four points. Once again, STFU.

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oh noes, I'm so hurt
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<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Are we comparing Francis turning the ball over a lot while averaging 6 APG and 18-20 PPG to guys who turn it over while averaging 10 APG?</div>
It's an inside joke I guess.

To everyone, put it like this:

We hit rock bottom and are screwed cap wise anyway. We didn't give up anyone, but Ariza who was very tradable. We basically gave up nothing to take a risk on a former three-time all-star. I think it's pretty good considering what we gave up.

Tommorow there should be more changes. I expect to see the backcourt thin out a bit.
 
they shouldve went for KG, and o yea BTW there is already a thread on this dunno why.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Eclipse:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow is all I can say. This is not going to end well in my opinion.

Isiah had two huge expriring contracts and instead he takes on two more HUGE contracts. This will only delay the rebuilding process even more.

I'm just thankful that Isiah left the Raps a long time ago (no offense meant to Knick fans).



yeah, looks like they end up with basically nothing and losing T-Mac. Almost as bad as Raps getting back almost nothing in return for Vince.</div>


Orlando got Trevor Ariza, Darko Milicic and Carlos Arroyo for T-Mac

For Vince the Raptors got Joey Graham, 2nd round picks, the pick that made dumping Rose's salary possible(GREAT move), a banger in AD that can have some positive contributions both on the court and off, and a player that was and had been a decent contributer in Eric Williams. Eric didnt work out but there's no reason why he couldnt of. He was the defensive hustler that we needed and in NJ he was actually scoring the ball pretty well.


Raps got a pretty good deal in my opinion. With Graham and the picks the raps are building for the future and it also allowed them to loose 28 million in cap between Rose and Vince. Please rethink how you feel about the Vince Carter trade. Far to many people on here listen to the ESPN clowns and just throw up the same **** as them. The Vince trade was a solid trade that let us rebuild around Bosh. The Rose trade was a solid trade that lets us keep Mike James and possibly another solid player. Aaron Williams trade was solid.

The only bad move Babcock has ever made was drafting Hoffa. And that wasnt even that bad. Sure he's a bust but he DOES have all the tools to be good...its just his mentality is flawed. We picked him 8th...which was about 8 spots early...its not like we drafted a 2nd rounder in the lottery or something.


Oh and to the OP : what the !@!$ "steven A knows his stuff"? That guy's the biggest hack ever..please tell me you're not in his fan club.

come on guys..think for yourselves
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On topic. New York got the talent for far cheaper than i expected the Magic to let it go for. However this team is even more doomed now. How many underacheivers is to many? Is it a good idea to have so many players on a team that need the ball to be effective? How will a Marbury Francis back court work? How the hell are the Knicks gunna play defense with a lineup of Marbury Francis QRich Frye and Curry?

lol
 
Like every trade Isiah is done, it has the glimmer of potential. But I'm sure that we'll be looking at this a year from now and shaking our heads.

I like this trade for the Magic: addition by subtraction, a nice young player and cap space. If only they could have convinced Isiah to throw an unprotected pick into it.

^And that analysis of the VC trade and Babcock is sooo biased. Don't argue about it on this thread though.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">On topic. New York got the talent for far cheaper than i expected the Magic to let it go for. However this team is even more doomed now. How many underacheivers is to many? Is it a good idea to have so many players on a team that need the ball to be effective? How will a Marbury Francis back court work? How the hell are the Knicks gunna play defense with a lineup of Marbury Francis QRich Frye and Curry?</div>
Well, as I said before, it can't get any worse. We've already hit rock bottom. This is a risk worth taking. And where do you get the idea Francis is a bad defender? He's actually pretty good.
 
Another horrible contract for a PG that is selfish and won't make his team better...my god what is Isiah thinking???? They are gonna be in salary cap hell for a long, long, long, long, long, long time.

long, long, long, long, long, long, long, LOOOOOOOOOOOONG TIME!!

P.s...........long Time!


Please don't triple post.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">P.s...........long Time!</div>


we know...don't rub it in.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting norespect:</div><div class="quote_post">Another horrible contract for a PG that is selfish and won't make his team better...my god what is Isiah thinking???? They are gonna be in salary cap hell for a long, long, long, long, long, long time.

long, long, long, long, long, long, long, LOOOOOOOOOOOONG TIME!!

P.s...........long Time!</div>
The Knicks weren't getting salary space with Marbury on their cap, anyway. If you didn't know, Francis and Marbury's contract expire the same year. That means salary wouldn't have made a difference.
 
Weighing in.

I respect the New York fans that are painting a good face on this, but Isiah is going to get fired. Scott Layden come back!
Also, Jamal Crawford is going to be out of there by tomorrow, if this trade is any indication. Jamal Crawford is just a shooting guard version of Marbury (notice no one's calling him Starbury anymore?) and Francis. Does anyone know if they still have their pick for next year? They'd better keep it, because this team is going to be bad for a long team unless a miracle happens.
The only reason that Larry Brown could possibly have wanted Francis is so he can sabotage the team and walk out again. I actually like Marbury, but Francis is a whiner, and he's going to whine even more on this team.
On the other hand, there may be a bigger deal in the works. I can't see how David Stern approved this trade, he's a Knicks fan, after all. It's the biggest city market in the world and he's letting Isiah destroy it? What's going on?
Also, Hardaway came off the cap. He was an asset. Ariza will be good someday, he's very athletic and can defend. Francis turns the ball over, and over dribbles like crazy. He's also not that good a passer.

On the flip side: watch out for Orlando in two or three years...they're gonna surprise people.
 
Postpoint, Isiah pulled the trigger on the deal because Larry Brown wanted him to. I see what you're saying, but the reason why this deal isn't too bad is because I don't think the Knicks cannot get any worse. We didn't give up too much for him, either. It'll be interesting, though. I don't know what will happen; we'll just have to wait and see.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Like every trade Isiah is done, it has the glimmer of potential. But I'm sure that we'll be looking at this a year from now and shaking our heads.

I like this trade for the Magic: addition by subtraction, a nice young player and cap space. If only they could have convinced Isiah to throw an unprotected pick into it.

^And that analysis of the VC trade and Babcock is sooo biased. Don't argue about it on this thread though.</div>


i biased analysis of the VC trade and Babock? All i did is say what we got out of it. Fact. Very little biased text on that issue on my thread. I'd love to get a pm about it from you and we can discuss it there, especially if you are one of the many that think we could of gotten more than what we did for a max contract player with a long history of injuries, that was putting up crappy numbers, wasnt playing ANY defence, was by his own admission "mailing it in", wasnt playing 4th quarters and WAS CONTINUELY advertising to the media that he wanted out AND on top of that he was being very specific about the teams he'd be willing to go to (New York and Florida + NO west coast teams)

I look foward to hearing from you.



On topic...good trade for the Knicks in that they got a talented player for virtually nothing. Sure they get no cap space but they'd need alot more than 1 or 2 expiring contracts for that to happen..they'd need to rebuild and they clearly arent willing to do that. I like the idea of letting the Magic rebuild HOWEVER an expiring contract and an average young player is awfully cheap.
 
Why?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Postpoint, Isiah pulled the trigger on the deal because Larry Brown wanted him to. I see what you're saying, but the reason why this deal isn't too bad is because I don't think the Knicks cannot get any worse. We didn't give up too much for him, either. It'll be interesting, though. I don't know what will happen; we'll just have to wait and see.</div>

I've heard that Larry Brown wanted this trade, but I can't really see why. Is he trying to make the team so bad, that when it gets better he can take credit it for it? I think it's going to be a fascinating soap opera, but as a basketball team, it's gonna be scary. But I understand the idea that we've got no idea what the Knicks have planned. I just hope the've got something planned.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">On topic...good trade for the Knicks in that they got a talented player for virtually nothing. Sure they get no cap space but they'd need alot more than 1 or 2 expiring contracts for that to happen..they'd need to rebuild and they clearly arent willing to do that. I like the idea of letting the Magic rebuild HOWEVER an expiring contract and an average young player is awfully cheap.</div>

Bingo! This trade makes sense for both these teams in that regard. The Knicks don't have the draft picks or cap space to rebuild in the conventional manner. Their franchise player, Marbury, isn't very young anyone. Stockpiling talent for some their expiring contracts and hoping the talent can work together is the plausible direction for them to take.

In contrast, what Orlando did was ideal for their situation because their franchise player, Dwight Howard, is very young, and now they can build around him properly.
 
I can't wait to hear Larry Brown try and explain how he is going to distribute the ball between Crawford, Francis, and Marbury. Something along the lines of "I'm pushing David Stern to introduce three basketballs at a time into the game."
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting postpoint:</div><div class="quote_post">I've heard that Larry Brown wanted this trade, but I can't really see why. Is he trying to make the team so bad, that when it gets better he can take credit it for it? I think it's going to be a fascinating soap opera, but as a basketball team, it's gonna be scary. But I understand the idea that we've got no idea what the Knicks have planned. I just hope the've got something planned.</div>
He brought up how they'll make each other better and brought up how Frazier, Monroe, and Barnett, were effective than he brought up Dumars, Isiah, and Johnson. I think this is just part one of what's going to happen. We'll be able to grasp the situation a little bit better tommorow when/if/hopefully the Knicks make another deal.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck:</div><div class="quote_post">I can't wait to hear Larry Brown try and explain how he is going to distribute the ball between Crawford, Francis, and Marbury. Something along the lines of "I'm pushing David Stern to introduce three basketballs at a time into the game."</div>
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That might work, as long as Stern is led to believe it would generate more money on a global scale.

I'm pretty sure Crawford will be traded next. Just be glad Orlando refused to take him.

I just think the Francis/Marbury/LB mix is crazy enough to work. Larry Brown loves playing that underdog role and proving his doubters wrong.
 
Oh well. Salary cap relief is overrated anyway...I have a serious question. When Marbury and Francis kill each other do their contracts come off the books? Isiah Thomas has officially lost his mind. He has absolutely no regard for the salary cap. Instead of trying to get to salary cap relief slowly and surely he has decided to take on even more salary in a vain attempt to get better now. On the brightside the Knicks cant get any worse so Francis will likely improve the team at least in the short term and Isiah didnt throw in an unprotected pick.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh well. Salary cap relief is overrated anyway...I have a serious question. When Marbury and Francis kill each other do their contracts come off the books? Isiah Thomas has officially lost his mind. He has absolutely no regard for the salary cap. Instead of trying to get to salary cap relief slowly and surely he has decided to take on even more salary in a vain attempt to get better now. On the brightside the Knicks cant get any worse so Francis will likely improve the team at least in the short term and Isiah didnt throw in an unprotected pick.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div>
Don't blame Isiah for the trade, blame Larry.

But as you said, we can't get worse, we won't have any cap space until Marbury's contract expires and that's the same year as Francis. Gotta love the trade only by trading Ariza and Penny.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">
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That might work, as long as Stern is led to believe it would generate more money on a global scale.
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*thumbs up*

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">:
I'm pretty sure Crawford will be traded next. Just be glad Orlando refused to take him.

</div>I was thrilled about the Penny trade. It's exactly what I wanted. Otis Smith has redeemed himself after that Vasquez charade.
 
we get to keep jamal for an offensive boost behind steve... nice trade for us
 
The Magic probably could have gotten more for Francis, but regardless, it was good for the rebuilding process. Howard is a stud, and they have some other great young talents on that roster.

The Knicks are hopeless. Even if Francis miraculously meshes well with Marbury, it'll only lead to a few more wins. The cap hell just got worse, and the young guys will have less of a chance to gain experience and improve. I think getting rid of Ariza was a mistake as well. He's obviously getting less minutes because LB is the coach, but that doesn't mean he hasn't or won't improve. I hope Isiah pulls the trigger on something big in the next few hours, or else the season is over. The only way for them to get better is to get lucky in the draft. Too bad LB is the coach, otherwise I would see them trying to bomb the rest of the season to try and get the best chance for the 1st pick.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NYCfinest123:</div><div class="quote_post">we get to keep jamal for an offensive boost behind steve... nice trade for us</div>
I think Crawford is on his way out of New York before the trade deadline in a deal to Denver most likely. There is no way that in one game of basketball you can find enough minutes for Francis, Marbury, Crawford, Rose, and Richardson on one team. You to trade at least one or two of those guys most likely Crawford and Richardson (if anyone wants him) before the deadline, or Larry Brown is going to be taking a lot of games off due to migraine headaches.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">RealGM - Steve Francis's coveted #3 is unavailable in New York, already taken by his new running mate Stephon Marbury.

His Maryland #23 also is unavailable, occupied by Quentin Richardson.

Francis had chosen a number which is familiar to Knick fans everywhere, the #8 jersey vacated by fan favorite Latrell Sprewell a few seasons back. He was presented the #8 jersey at an early evening news conference.

Knicks PR has since notified RealGM that he has decided to wear #1 instead</div>
<div align="center">Link</div>

just to clear up all the jersey # speculation.
 
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