Trade Suggestion: CJ for Jabari Parker?

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Rastapopoulos said:
So you're hoping he can be our center one day?
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Our? Are you and I adopting him? If you mean the Portland Trail Blazers' center, that would be difficult if Portland isn't trading for him.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Right. Isn't that what happens in trades most of the time? Two teams are overstocked at one position and understocked at the other and swap?
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Im not ignoring the glaring need just the questioning the means to acquire a solution. My point is just cause he plays a different position does not give him the same value. Gotta be shrewd about this type of stuff I think. which is why I believe were in for a loooooong season and a disappointing trade deadline. If NO doesnt get a deal he likes he wont (hoping on hope here) make a deal just to make one esp not for CJ of all people. Nobody wants our pieces right now and we might have to bite the bullet and ride this year out with the group as is to make a move in the off season when more teams are open to it. Our bench guys will need the season to up their collective value to give us more opportunity for things like sign and trades.
 
Until Crabbe can prove on a consistent basis that he is a quality SG, we do not trade CJ.

Crabbe has been getting his chances. He is averaging over 28 mpg, very near starter minutes. His production is no where near what it should be for the mpg he is playing.

Crabbe has not earned a starting job. I hope he does, but so far, he has been underwhelming.
 
oldfisherman said:
Until Crabbe can prove on a consistent basis that he is a quality SG, we do not trade CJ.

Crabbe has been getting his chances. He is averaging over 28 mpg, very near starter minutes. His production is no where near what it should be for the mpg he is playing.
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I don't think you can just look at his MPG and say "he can earn it in those minutes". There's a difference between knowing you're the starter and knowing you'll get shots (and knowing there's not somebody hanging over your shoulder ready to replace you if you screw up) and just getting varying minutes with a ragtag bunch off the bench. Some people are better off the bench, some people work better as starters. I think Crabbe would be better surrounded by better players in the same way that Danny Green is. Ginobili is a way better player, but also needs the ball more, so it makes better sense to have Green be a starter - that exploits his skillset more.

I think the only way we'll get a fair assessment of Crabbe is if CJ goes out for a few games some time this season.
 
chzbrgr said:
Our bench guys will need the season to up their collective value to give us more opportunity for things like sign and trades.
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I just don't see them "upping their collective values" with the logjam we have. It's a catch 22.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Prove it. There's a difference between difficult and impossible.
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You can only trade CJ if there is a team accepting significantly more in salary than they're sending out.

Because of the poison pill, CJ's outgoing salary for us is 3.2M, but his incoming salary for anyone who would accept him is 21.8M. So, there's a gap of 18.6M which needs to be accounted for. Per the CBA, unless more than $20M of salary is being exchanged, teams that are or will be over the cap after the completion of the trade can only accept a max of $5M more than is being sent out. Once over $20M, the acceptable difference is 25%. So, in order for a two team deal to be consummated involving CJ and any team that is not Philadelphia, the minimum amounts of salary going out from and coming back to Portland would need to be calculated with the equation (O+3.2M)*1.25=I=(O+21.8M)/1.25, for which outbound salaries O=29.87M, and inbound salaries I=41.34M.

So, unless a trade partner is more than $18.6M under the cap (the value of the PPP gap), any CJ deal will either have to involve us sending out an additional $30M+ in salary along with CJ, and ending up $12M+ over the luxury tax line, or involve 3 teams, one of which is significantly under the cap.

So no, it's not literally impossible, but it is practically impossible.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I just don't see them "upping their collective values" with the logjam we have. It's a catch 22.
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How? Harkless has done it so far, AC did it last year with less opportunity, ET is starting to turn it around, Aminu comes back and gets his with his shot where it was last year could do it esp on his deal. I mean Meyers is a lost cause but still there is conceivably a fair bit of value there that could be recouped.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
You can only trade CJ if there is a team accepting significantly more in salary than they're sending out.

Because of the poison pill, CJ's outgoing salary for us is 3.2M, but his incoming salary for anyone who would accept him is 21.8M. So, there's a gap of 18.6M which needs to be accounted for. Per the CBA, unless more than $20M of salary is being exchanged, teams that are or will be over the cap after the completion of the trade can only accept a max of $5M more than is being sent out. Once over $20M, the acceptable difference is 25%. So, in order for a two team deal to be consummated involving CJ and any team that is not Philadelphia, the minimum amounts of salary going out from and coming back to Portland would need to be calculated with the equation (O+3.2M)*1.25=I=(O+21.8M)/1.25, for which outbound salaries O=29.87M, and inbound salaries I=41.34M.

So, unless a trade partner is more than $18.6M under the cap (the value of the PPP gap), any CJ deal will either have to involve us sending out an additional $30M+ in salary along with CJ, and ending up $12M+ over the luxury tax line, or involve 3 teams, one of which is significantly under the cap.

So no, it's not literally impossible, but it is practically impossible.
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Thank you for looking that up
 
I don't see a way to make a CJ trade with Milwaukee work due to the PPP in his contract.

The amounts of money in/out to make the CBA work would have to be enormous, so the $17M difference in vs. out for the PPP becomes less than 150% of the total package, both ways.

You could bring in a 3rd team like Philly with a ton of cap space, but the deal would still be huge, involving a lot more than just CJ and Harkless.

Next year it can much more easily be done. The PPP will be off.

I don't see the point. Trading two of our best 3 scorers for a SF who's not as big a scorer as CJ.
 
oldfisherman said:
Until Crabbe can prove on a consistent basis that he is a quality SG, we do not trade CJ.

Crabbe has been getting his chances. He is averaging over 28 mpg, very near starter minutes. His production is no where near what it should be for the mpg he is playing.

Crabbe has not earned a starting job. I hope he does, but so far, he has been underwhelming.
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Bingo, somebody that gets it!

I've said it several times, Allen Crabbe got paid and them his production immediately reverted to what it was the season before his contract year "breakout" season.

His PER (8.7) and 3FG% (.353) this year are EXACTLY they same as they were in his second season.

The difference? Back then he played 13 MPG, got a bunch if DNP-CDs and got paid $862K. This year he's playing 28 MPG and getting paid $18.5 MILLION for the exact same level of production.

Any talk of trading C.J. and stating Allen Crabbe is asinine, unless the player we get in return is significantly better than C.J. We are blessed to have one of the best SGs in the league (currently ranked between 2nd and 5th depending on which metric you use). At his current production level Allen Crabbe would be the worst starting SG i n the league (by whatever metric you want to use).

The Crabbe supporters claim he's being used incorrectly and his production would soar if only he could start and not have to play in C.J.'s shadow. Bullshit! Crabbe had a career year least season and his numbers were that of an average bench player, and at this point it's not clear if he can even return to that level, let alone exceed it. He's a shitty rebounder and a poor passer. He's a 3 and D guy who can't hit a wide open 3 and doesn't guard anyone (worst DRtg on the entire team) that brings NOTHING else to the table.

Right now, not only does Allen Crabbe not deserve to be starting, he doesn't even deserve to be in the regular rotation. His current level of production warrants the same 13 MPG and tons of DNP-CDs he got two years ago,

BNM
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Presumably a metric that ignores defense.
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Nope, Crabbe isn't a great defender by any known metric. His OPP PTS/48 is 15.3. C.J.'s is 16.0. That's not nearly significant enough to justify paying Crabbe over C.J. when C.J. is twice the scorer, gets more rebounds, way more assists and 3x as many steals. Crabbe sucks so bad at everything else, he'd have to be the second coming of Bruce Bowen to be a marginal starter. Unfortunately, he's not.

C.J., is, by far, the best 3-point shooter on this team. Given how much Stotts' offense relies spacing and 3-point shooting, removing him from the roster and promoting Allen Crabbe (who is an average 3-point shooter) to a starter, would be a disaster.

BNM
 
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so when we trade CJ for anything other than a ball handler just how many minutes do you want dame to play?
 
FINE! EXCUSE ME for trying to solve a logjam. I guess y'alls just want to watch Paul Allen's money molder on the bench. It's going to be funny when CJ's real $ kicks in and we have 4 backcourt players earning around $80 million a year.

Funny thing is, I bet Bucks fans would be just as indignant about this trade from their side.
 
Boob-No-More said:
Bingo, somebody that gets it!

I've said it several times, Allen Crabbe got paid and them his production immediately reverted to what it was the season before his contract year "breakout" season.

His PER (8.7) and 3FG% (.353) this year are EXACTLY they same as they were in his second season.
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Well he is playing badly so far this season, so it makes sense that his PER would be shitty. Nobody is denying that. What I'm suggesting is that his play so far is not a good indicator of what his play would be like as a starter. I haven't watched him all that much this year but it seemed to me that his improved play last season followed from a summer league where he showed off a much more varied game. Before he got injured in SL '15 he was hitting shots from all over and in general looking much more well rounded than in previous years. It would be odd if he suddenly lost those skills.

Perhaps Turner really is the problem. It's odd that SO MANY of our players' games have gone south (Ed being another key example). Maybe just the team is out of whack? We were always a team that relied on chemistry to overcome lack of talent.
 
yuyuza1 said:
Why do they need CJ when they already have Middleton? If we are looking at playmaking 4s, we should be hot after Aaron Gordon. He's a guy horribly miscast as a 3.

CJ + Noah + Plums etc for Vucevic and Gordon.

Something like that would be beneficial for both teams.
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Jesus Christ that is a terrible deal for us. You underrate Plumlee's value and CJ is by far the best player in the deal.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Well he is playing badly so far this season, so it makes sense that his PER would be shitty. Nobody is denying that. What I'm suggesting is that his play so far is not a good indicator of what his play would be like as a starter. I haven't watched him all that much this year but it seemed to me that his improved play last season followed from a summer league where he showed off a much more varied game. Before he got injured in SL '15 he was hitting shots from all over and in general looking much more well rounded than in previous years. It would be odd if he suddenly lost those skills.

Perhaps Turner really is the problem. It's odd that SO MANY of our players' games have gone south (Ed being another key example). Maybe just the team is out of whack? We were always a team that relied on chemistry to overcome lack of talent.
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People forget that with Aminu out, Stotts' mind was open. Crabbe GOT a chance to start but he failed. Meyers failed too. He settled on Davis because our overall rebounding improved once he made that move.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
FINE! EXCUSE ME for trying to solve a logjam. I guess y'alls just want to watch Paul Allen's money molder on the bench. It's going to be funny when CJ's real $ kicks in and we have 4 backcourt players earning around $80 million a year.

Funny thing is, I bet Bucks fans would be just as indignant about this trade from their side.
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I'm taking my ball and going home! Harumph!
 
Suggestion. Post trade proposals in the trade deadline thread instead of creating a new thread for each trade idea.

But... now I wonder.... Should I create a new thread for this idea?

Just sayin...
 
Jesus, this is where we are now. CJ FOR JEFF WITHEY
 
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