Summer league

[Chuck Taylor]

Have they announced if Oden is playing or not?

 

[Nikolokolus]

No, he's not playing.

 

[B-Roy]

He's going to OSU, so, no, he's not going.

 

[Tince]

The answer to your question is, YES.

 

[Wheels]

The answer to your question is, YES.

lol

 

[blue32]

Boo to Oden not playing. I'm surprised they don't make him play there.

 

[blue32]

Yeah, i hear ya, it just seems that any play is conducive to Greg at this point >

 

[Rastapopoulos]

In fact, the only player that we've heard of who it's been announced will be there for sure is Bayless, which seems a bit silly, as he's already been MVP. Batum, Koponen and even Freeland have summer duty for their National sides, and Rudy doesn't need to be there. My guess is that Bayless will be forced to play point in a last ditch attempt to see if he can. If, like last time, we see a quick switch to him playing SG, I'll take that as a sign they've given up on him and are showcasing him.

 

[Tince]

In fact, the only player that we've heard of who it's been announced will be there for sure is Bayless, which seems a bit silly, as he's already been MVP. Batum, Koponen and even Freeland have summer duty for their National sides, and Rudy doesn't need to be there. My guess is that Bayless will be forced to play point in a last ditch attempt to see if he can. If, like last time, we see a quick switch to him playing SG, I'll take that as a sign they've given up on him and are showcasing him.

Bill Bano said yesterday on 95.5 The Game, that Bayless' goal for summer league (and any pickup game this summer) would be to have a 10:1 assist to turnover ratio. He said they are going to film any game he plays in, take stats, and break it down.

He didn't sound concerned about him getting 10 assists a game, just his efficiency as a distributor. He won't win MVP this year, but this will be a great chance for him to focus on his weaknesses instead of showing off his strengths.

 

[Reep]

Didn't Martell also say he was playing in summer league? I'm pretty sure he is. If he does, that should give Bayless a nice target for some of those assists.

I support GO not playing in summer league. The only benefit is if it would help him to learn what a foul is, and how to avoid cheap ones. I'm hoping he gets to work out with the U.S. team.

 

[Nikolokolus]

In fact, the only player that we've heard of who it's been announced will be there for sure is Bayless, which seems a bit silly, as he's already been MVP. Batum, Koponen and even Freeland have summer duty for their National sides, and Rudy doesn't need to be there. My guess is that Bayless will be forced to play point in a last ditch attempt to see if he can. If, like last time, we see a quick switch to him playing SG, I'll take that as a sign they've given up on him and are showcasing him.

Your comment made me think of the Chauncey Billups story that ran at espn.com the other day.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=090511/billups

New coach Rick Pitino had been banking on winning the draft lottery, and when he doesn't, his patience with lesser rookies is limited. Chauncey tells his longtime girlfriend, Piper Riley, that he senses Pitino doesn't like him, and, the truth is, Pitino doesn't respect Chauncey's point guard skills. It's not Chauncey's fault he had to shoot first at CU, but when Pitino sees Chauncey's indecisiveness running the offense, he shops him instead of bearing with him. Then, 51 games into his rookie season, averaging 11.1 points and 4.3 assists, Chauncey is traded to Toronto for Kenny Anderson.

"I was a scoring point guard," Chauncey says. "And if you recall, at that time a scoring point guard wasn't all that popular. It was like a running quarterback."

He goes to Toronto and it hits him: "I don't know when to score and when not to." He finds it difficult, as a point guard, to tell grown men what to do, and he loses his swagger. His image, meanwhile, is in the tank. He is the first first-round pick to be traded as a rookie since Rick Robey in 1978-79, and the labeling starts: He's a bust. He's a shooting guard in a point guard's body. He's selfish.

Of course he hasn't been traded, but for a guy that was projected to go top five before tumbling on draft day and then gets buried on the bench you could tell that by the time the season had ended Bayless' confidence in his game had taken a big hit.

After Chauncey signs, KG introduces him around the locker room. "This is my point guard, Terrell Brandon," KG says, "and this is Pops -- Sam Mitchell."

At first, Brandon and Mitchell don't say much. They have seen Chauncey bounce from team to team, have seen his erratic shot selection. They are civil, but have no sense he can fit into their team-first philosophy. But, as the days and practices go by, Chauncey begins tugging on their sleeves, asking questions. At training camp dinners, he makes sure to sit next to Brandon, an All-Star and past winner of the NBA's Sportsmanship Award. "He's always on my right side," Brandon says. "He's moving guys out of the way so he can sit right next to me."

Chauncey even moves into the locker next to Brandon. He asks him how he knows when to shoot and when to share, and Brandon tells him to simply move the ball. He says his job as a point guard is to make teammates blissful, to get KG 20 shots a game and Wally Szczerbiak 15, to have no ego. He teaches Chauncey how to watch film, how to spend the first half reading how the defense is playing the pick-and-roll … and how to adjust in the second half. He tells him that if KG doesn't have double-figure points by mid-second quarter to start feeding him the rock. He tells him if KG still can't score, then you start scoring. He tells him to know everyone's foul situation -- on both teams -- to know who's already been hit with a technical foul, who's ripe to lose his cool.

The Terrell Brandon snippet is one of the reasons I think getting a aged vet like Andre Miller would be a good idea; Miller's game is predicated on getting his shots from fifteen feet in, and he's old enough to know all the tricks of the trade, on the other hand I don't think Jerryd has much of anything to learn from Steve Blake "Just go stand in the corner and wait for Brandon to kick it out to you"

Now I'm not suggesting that Bayless is going to be the next "Mr. Bigshot", but I do see some common threads. Bayless has definitely fallen flat in his rookie season, but we've all heard the stories about his maniacal work-ethic, and him incessantly pestering coaches to either work with him or tell him how to improve his game. If success is predicated on the marriage of raw natural born physical tools and work ethic, then I think there's a better than average chance Jerryd can turn the corner and be a very good NBA point guard in a couple of years ... time will tell.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Didn't Martell also say he was playing in summer league? I'm pretty sure he is. If he does, that should give Bayless a nice target for some of those assists.

I support GO not playing in summer league. The only benefit is if it would help him to learn what a foul is, and how to avoid cheap ones. I'm hoping he gets to work out with the U.S. team.

Having Martell to play with in summer league on the wing could definitely make Jerryd's job easier, especially because he's played a few years in the big boy league and he's also more comfortable catching and shooting than creating his own shot off the dribble; he should be a somewhat confidence inspiring backcourt mate versus the talent-poor/inexperienced roster he played with last year.

 

[mook]

Nice food for thought, Nikolokolus.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

So - is Terrell Brandon available as an assistant coach? (Does he live in Portland?)

Terrell Brandon was the rich man's Aaron Brooks.

 

[blue32]

Man, am I the only one wishing the summer league was next week?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Now I'm not suggesting that Bayless is going to be the next "Mr. Bigshot", but I do see some common threads. Bayless has definitely fallen flat in his rookie season, but we've all heard the stories about his maniacal work-ethic, and him incessantly pestering coaches to either work with him or tell him how to improve his game. If success is predicated on the marriage of raw natural born physical tools and work ethic, then I think there's a better than average chance Jerryd can turn the corner and be a very good NBA point guard in a couple of years ... time will tell.

That would indeed be sweet. Maybe I'm completely wrong and KP really WAS targeting Bayless, rather than going for Augustin and getting pipped because Larry Brown wanted him.

BUT:

Chauncey Billups is the new Jermaine O'Neal. That is, for years, whenever a guy has been languishing on the bench but showing flashes of great athleticism or whatnot (e.g., Amir Johnson in Detroit), any fan who doesn't want to give up on him invokes the name of Jermaine O'Neal. "Remember what happened when Portland traded Jermaine O'Neal? Boy was THAT a mistake!"

Now it's Chauncey Billups. "People can learn to be point guards - look at Chauncey Billups!"

Yeah, and a black man can become president - look at Barack Obama!

 

[Nikolokolus]

That would indeed be sweet. Maybe I'm completely wrong and KP really WAS targeting Bayless, rather than going for Augustin and getting pipped because Larry Brown wanted him.

BUT:

Chauncey Billups is the new Jermaine O'Neal. That is, for years, whenever a guy has been languishing on the bench but showing flashes of great athleticism or whatnot (e.g., Amir Johnson in Detroit), any fan who doesn't want to give up on him invokes the name of Jermaine O'Neal. "Remember what happened when Portland traded Jermaine O'Neal? Boy was THAT a mistake!"

Now it's Chauncey Billups. "People can learn to be point guards - look at Chauncey Billups!"

Yeah, and a black man can become president - look at Barack Obama!

O'Neal and Billups have had decidedly different paths to success. Jermaine was buried on the bench and blew up in Indy when he got the minutes, Chauncey got bounced around for years and had to learn on the fly -- those two are apples and oranges.

If Bayless didn't have the physical tools and the (reportedly) strong work ethic, I'd be one of the loudest proponents of shipping his ass out of here on a rail. But then again I'm more inclined to believe that a thing like running a team can be learned and isn't just an innate ability imprinted on somebody's DNA.

Let me be clear, I have no doubt Jerryd will never be confused with Steve Nash, John Stockton, Chris Paul, or Jason Kidd, but just because he'll never have that type of game doesn't mean he can't be an effective point guard in the Billups, Tony Parker mold.

 

[hasoos]

That would indeed be sweet. Maybe I'm completely wrong and KP really WAS targeting Bayless, rather than going for Augustin and getting pipped because Larry Brown wanted him.

BUT:

Chauncey Billups is the new Jermaine O'Neal. That is, for years, whenever a guy has been languishing on the bench but showing flashes of great athleticism or whatnot (e.g., Amir Johnson in Detroit), any fan who doesn't want to give up on him invokes the name of Jermaine O'Neal. "Remember what happened when Portland traded Jermaine O'Neal? Boy was THAT a mistake!"

Now it's Chauncey Billups. "People can learn to be point guards - look at Chauncey Billups!"

Yeah, and a black man can become president - look at Barack Obama!

If KP had been targeting Augustine then why would he pull the trigger on a trade if the guy he wanted was already gone? That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Nikolokolus]

So - is Terrell Brandon available as an assistant coach? (Does he live in Portland?)

Terrell Brandon was the rich man's Aaron Brooks.

Well, he has a barber shop in No Po and there was some story last year about he and a guy catching a beating the hell out of a guy that tried to extort money from his family.

So yeah, he's still around.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If KP had been targeting Augustine then why would he pull the trigger on a trade if the guy he wanted was already gone? That makes absolutely no sense.

The guy he wanted was gone, but he figured he'd give Bayless a shot. Besides which, it was addition by subtraction by getting rid of Jarrett Jack.

(I feel almost ashamed in citing Jason Quick as an authority. I'm going to wash now.)

 

[Rastapopoulos]

O'Neal and Billups have had decidedly different paths to success. Jermaine was buried on the bench and blew up in Indy when he got the minutes, Chauncey got bounced around for years and had to learn on the fly -- those two are apples and oranges.

That's a little bit of revisionism with Jermaine. He got a shot at C with the Blazers for some extended minutes (I can't remember, but I think injuries created an opening). He sucked. My explanation for Jermaine's sudden success is Isiah Thomas. Thomas as a coach picks a favorite player and really pumps up his ego and gears the team around working for him. The guy's game explodes -- and the team is mediocre. But when either Thomas or the player moves on, that player's game falls back to Earth.
I give you:
Damon Stoudamire (okay, so Thomas wasn't the coach. But his handpicked guy was.)
Jermaine O'Neal
Eddie Curry

If Bayless didn't have the physical tools and the (reportedly) strong work ethic, I'd be one of the loudest proponents of shipping his ass out of here on a rail. But then again I'm more inclined to believe that a thing like running a team can be learned and isn't just an innate ability imprinted on somebody's DNA.

I agree that Bayless's work ethic and natural smarts are encouraging. Of course, his stubbornness has led him to excel and might hold him back. He needs a mentor, and not just Nate, who can't favor him over other players. I'm serious about asking TB to mentor him. Either that or give Sam Cassell a better offer than Washington.
I'm ready to be proved wrong on Bayless. But the odds are greatly against him.

Let me be clear, I have no doubt Jerryd will never be confused with Steve Nash, John Stockton, Chris Paul, or Jason Kidd, but just because he'll never have that type of game doesn't mean he can't be an effective point guard in the Billups, Tony Parker mold.

Fair enough. You can add Terrell Brandon and Sam Cassell to that list...

 

[Ed O]

The guy he wanted was gone, but he figured he'd give Bayless a shot. Besides which, it was addition by subtraction by getting rid of Jarrett Jack.

(I feel almost ashamed in citing Jason Quick as an authority. I'm going to wash now.)

That blog entry doesn't seem to make much sense in a few ways...

1. If Portland had Rush #4 on their board, why would they give up Jack to move UP to take Bayless?

2. Augustine wasn't even good enough to start for the Bobcats, as it turns out. There's no way he would have been starting for Portland ahead of Blake as a rookie.

Clearly the second point is only valid (to whatever extent) in retrospect.

I think that Quick's "Blazers board" of Westbrook/Augustine/Alexander/Rush is the group of guys that they hoped would be attainable at or around #13. Westbrook clearly went earlier than expected (justifiably) and Bayless slipped.

I'm delighted we didn't take Rush or Alexander. Or at least keep either of them. They looked terrible this year.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

O'Neal and Billups have had decidedly different paths to success. Jermaine was buried on the bench and blew up in Indy when he got the minutes, Chauncey got bounced around for years and had to learn on the fly -- those two are apples and oranges.

I think his point is that they are both exceptions that are too often quoted as a rule. Or at least a probability.

I tend to agree with him... not many players learn to play the PG spot in the NBA like Billups has, and not many young guys who do absolutely nothing at a very young age explode when they get traded.

With that being said, I think that Bayless has the tools and the ethic to become a very good player... maybe never a pure PG, but certainly a combo guard like Cleveland has in Williams and West.

Ed O.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

That blog entry doesn't seem to make much sense in a few ways...
1. If Portland had Rush #4 on their board, why would they give up Jack to move UP to take Bayless?

Fair point - Bayless is conspicuously absent from that list, so in theory he could be above Augustin.

2. Augustine wasn't even good enough to start for the Bobcats, as it turns out. There's no way he would have been starting for Portland ahead of Blake as a rookie.

UNfair point.
1. Augustin not only was good enough to start, he did start on several occasions. They even tried starting Augustin and Felton together before the Bell trade.
2. Even if Augustin ended up legitimately behind Felton in the PG depth chart (and not simply because of injury or seniority concerns), that doesn't mean he couldn't've started ahead of Blake. He's certainly more of an NBA-level player. That's not to say that Nate would've started him, but he certainly would have deserved to.

I think that Quick's "Blazers board" of Westbrook/Augustine/Alexander/Rush is the group of guys that they hoped would be attainable at or around #13. Westbrook clearly went earlier than expected (justifiably) and Bayless slipped.

Let's suppose (almost certainly wrongly) that Quick had the actual Blazer Board. Your suggestion sounds right, but it should also be noted that the players on it are PGs or SFs. No Bayless might mean they didn't originally consider him because, like Mike Dunleavy, they considered him a too-short SG.

(So why did they end up taking him? Because they figured he was a valuable piece who'd slipped.)

I'm delighted we didn't take Rush or Alexander. Or at least keep either of them. They looked terrible this year.

Alexander, certainly. Rush actually had some very good games when given minutes near the end of the season.

 

[hasoos]

Nate is always going to start who he feels is more experienced, unless he is forced into a corner. When Batum entered the starting lineup, he was forced into a corner. But when you have multiple PG to choose from, he is hardly cornered. It's almost like for some guys to not see time, you have to move them so they aren't on the team.(Jack).

 

[Blaze01]

You cannot seriously look to Jason Quick on who was ranked where on POR draft board last year....can you? I mean, he has "some" inside information but he hasw been wrong far too often to be relied on for accurate information, particularly when it comes to whom POR had ranked where....

Using that as your source doesn't help your cause\theories at all IMO....

 

[Natebishop3]

I have felt all season that people expect far too much from Bayless this season. He's a rookie point guard. Other than center, I'd say point guard is the hardest position to learn in the NBA. As Billups said, he's a young man leading veterans. That's a hard thing to do. Not everyone is going to be Chris Paul.