Summer trade targets

[BonesJones]

Lots of trade ideas floating around the internet. Found this one interesting.

Portland trades, Crabbe, Turner, Butters and a draft pick or two to the Nets for Brook Lopez. Adjust as needed.

Lopez is an expiring next season, so the cap is clear when it is time to re-sign Nurkic and Vonleh.

Nets reset with younger talent.

- Give them Harkless too.
- Have them send Lopez and Lin to Milwaukee with us getting Middleton.
-Maybe get Kilpatrick's $1.5M back as well.
- Give Milwaukee Aminu as sweetener.
-Then offload Davis

Then you have Lillard/McCollum/Middleton/Nurkic
As well as max cap space.
Overpay Millsap.

Lillard
McCollum
Middleton
Millsap
Nurkic

 

[Scalma]

Why does that matter? Did you not read my post? You don't need to go out and grotesquely overpay a free agent to give you what Crabbe gives us. CLE picked up Korver in a trade this season and he's better than Crabbe - still. Porter and Harris are still on rookie contracts. Great, we have three draft picks, then either trade one of them for a cheap vet and/or draft a couple of sharp shooters and see if one pans out. Pull a guy like Jordan Crawford from the D-League. Overpaying for a one trick pony like Crabbe is just plain bad cap management.

BNM

Why does it matter? Because in 5 years the only top shooters that won't be making what Crabbe is making are guys on rookie contracts (and those guys will be in the minority)

And you can write "Crabbe is one dimensional" a thousand more times and it still won't make it factual.

 

[BonesJones]

Why does it matter? Because in 5 years the only top shooters that won't be making what Crabbe is making are guys on rookie contracts.

And you can write "Crabbe is one dimensional" a thousand more times and it still won't make it factual.

You're probably Crabbe's biggest fan. He's not good at anything. His shooting doesn't even make up for his deficiencies. I'd rather have someone shooting 37% from 3, and have a more rounded game. While he may miss 1 more three for every 15 attempts, that player would stop more buckets, create more for himself, and rebound better, while likely being cheaper. Crabbe is worth $8M, not $18M.

 

[Scalma]

You're probably Crabbe's biggest fan. He's not good at anything. His shooting doesn't even make up for his deficiencies. I'd rather have someone shooting 37% from 3, and have a more rounded game. While he may miss 1 more three for every 15 attempts, that player would stop more buckets, create more for himself, and rebound better, while likely being cheaper. Crabbe is worth $8M, not $18M.

Lmfao. That's all this post is worth.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Why does it matter? Because in 5 years the only top shooters that won't be making what Crabbe is making are guys on rookie contracts (and those guys will be in the minority)

And you can write "Crabbe is one dimensional" a thousand more times and it still won't make it factual.

With three first round draft picks, hopefully one of those top shooters on a cheap rookie contract will be wearing a Blazers uniform.

There will always be cheap vets and D-Leaguers or G-Leaguers available that can knock down an open 3 for a fraction of what Crabbe is making. Just go back and look at the top 3-point shooters by year. Sure, there are guys like Steph Curry, who is far from one dimensional, but every year there are guys like Jerryd Bayless, Steve Novak, Matt Bonner, Kyle Korver, Ersan Ilyasova, Marko Belinelli, Anthony Morrow, etc, who are in the top 5 that are neither overpaid, nor on a cheap rookie contract. Most of those guys are exactly like Allen Crabbe - a bench player that can knock down an open 3. The difference is most of them never made more than the MLE once in the entire career. Even accounting for last summer's inflation, Crabbe is grotesquely overpaid compared to other 3-point specialists, and he will continue to be for the life of his contract.

Other than spot up shooting, what does Crabbe do better than average? He's a weak rebounder, a non-existent passer and a terrible defender. He can't create for himself, or for others. What is his 2nd dimension?

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

Lets compromise while keeping it real.

Crabbe is an elite 3pt shooter. No doubt about it.

He has slightly improved his side step and shoot and a step in and shoot, but he has yet to show anything consistent when it comes to driving by guys to the hoop.

He hasn't shown anything special about his passing(mostly because he gets passed to and then shoots).

His defense is above average but nothing to write home about because he reaches in too often rather than moving his feet to get in front.(This is fixable)

His rebounding is below average (don't care about average for the position) when he is bigger than our other guards and they still out rebound him.

In today's NBA, I would put his value at $12 mill. Not a penny more.

 

[Scalma]

Disagree about Crabbes rebounding. He is a very good rebounder. He grabs more impressive boards than any of our guards/wings outside Aminu. He's got great length and he uses it. It doesn't look impressive on a stat sheet but also remember that our system doesn't allow anyone outside of our center to crash offensive boards. But look at his numbers in March. He's averaging over 3.5 rebounds a game. That's not nothing, especially for a backcourt player that comes off the bench.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Disagree about Crabbes rebounding. He is a very good rebounder. He grabs more impressive boards than any of our guards/wings outside Aminu. He's got great length and he uses it. It doesn't look impressive on a stat sheet but also remember that our system doesn't allow anyone outside of our center to crash offensive boards. But look at his numbers in March. He's averaging over 3.5 rebounds a game. That's not nothing, especially for a backcourt player that comes off the bench.

Okay, Ill play. So lets say his rebounding is average per the league. So he is an elite 3pt shooter who rebounds average, average D. Cant drive to the hoop and cant pass.
Not worth $18 mill. Still worth $12 mil, no?

 

[Boob-No-More]

Lets compromise while keeping it real.

Crabbe is an elite 3pt shooter. No doubt about it.

He has slightly improved his side step and shoot and a step in and shoot, but he has yet to show anything consistent when it comes to driving by guys to the hoop.

He hasn't shown anything special about his passing(mostly because he gets passed to and then shoots).

His defense is above average but nothing to write home about because he reaches in too often rather than moving his feet to get in front.(This is fixable)

His rebounding is below average (don't care about average for the position) when he is bigger than our other guards and they still out rebound him.

In today's NBA, I would put his value at $12 mill. Not a penny more.

His defense is not above average. He's the worst defender on a very bad defensive team. He is NOT a 3 and D guy. He's a 3 guy.

In a summer of bad contracts, Crabbe's was one of the worst. Sure, Noah and Parson's are worse, but that's due to injuries. Is there a more overpaid healthy player in the NBA right now that Allen Crabbe? Maybe Timofey Mozgov, but even that's debatable. They are two very different players, but Mozgov gives you defense and rebounding and makes $2.5 million a year less than Crabbe. Whether Mozgov's contract is "better" or worse than Crabbe's really doesn't matter, if you're contract comes up in the same conversation as Mozgov's, you know you're overpaid.

As far as last summer's spending spree, it was still possible to get bargains that give you what Crabbe does (or more) for a a lot less money.

Seth Curry - 2 years at $3 million/year, 3FG% = .420, PER = 15.4
Dion Waiters - 1 year at $2.9 million/year, 3FG% = .394, PER = 14.5
Anthony Tolliver - 2 years at $8 million/year, 3FG% = .406, PER = 11.1
Courtney Lee - 4 years at $12.5 million/year, 3FG% = .407, PER = 11.7
Mareese Speights - 2 years at $1.4 million/year, 3FG% = .381, PER = 18.4

Just because there were a few really bad contracts doesn't make Crabbe's somehow less bad. And sure, we were't the only ones to miss out on bargains like Seth Curry, but we are the only ones paying Allen Crabbe $18.5 million a year.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Disagree about Crabbes rebounding. He is a very good rebounder. He grabs more impressive boards than any of our guards/wings outside Aminu. He's got great length and he uses it. It doesn't look impressive on a stat sheet but also remember that our system doesn't allow anyone outside of our center to crash offensive boards. But look at his numbers in March. He's averaging over 3.5 rebounds a game. That's not nothing, especially for a backcourt player that comes off the bench.

Oh good lord, you have got to be kidding me. Crabbe has a TRB% of 5.6%. Do you realize how anemic that is for a player his size?

Damian Lillard - TRB = 7.6%
C.J. McCollum - TRB% = 5.8%
Evan Turner - TRB = 8.2%
Shabazz Napier - TRB = 6.1%

Evidently, our system isn't hurting everyone's rebounding, just Crabbe's.

Kyle Korver, who is 35-years old and plays on the same team with LeBron James, Tristan Thompson and Kevin Love has a higher TRB% than Allen Crabbe. Playing with those three, I'm surprised Korver gets any rebounds at all, but his TRB% of 5.8 is higher than Crabbe's.

And before you even try to tell us Crabbe is a good passer:

Allen Crabbe - AST% = 5.8
Meyers Leonard - AST% = 9.0

Meyers Leonard is nearly twice as good as Allen Crabbe at creating for others.

Again one-dimensional. You're grasping at straws to try to find something, anything that Crabbe does better than average. Unfortunately, no such thing exists.

BNM

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I don't really consider myself a Crabbe apologist, but it's not obvious to me how good of a player Crabbe would be as a starter with a starter's responsibility and a starter's number of shots rather than a bench player.

Regardless, he's got to go, and hopefully everyone has understood that since the day he re-signed. Olshey didn't want to lose an "asset" for nothing. So, the idea is to flip him for cap space and a pick, or for a decent player who makes much less. That's part of Neil's responsibility this summer.

 

[GDiama]

Hardly rebounding, hardy stealing the ball, hardly passing. And his 3% is elite, but his 3pt makes are far far far from elite (pretty much same average 3s with Joe Harris for example). Only 1.6 which is pretty much what he can find wide open. If he could create his shot and take this to 2+ then he would be really something (still not worth 18M, but something).

Turner has been pretty underwhelming too so whoever brings back the most has to go.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Okay, Ill play. So lets say his rebounding is average per the league. So he is an elite 3pt shooter who rebounds average, average D. Cant drive to the hoop and cant pass.
Not worth $18 mill. Still worth $12 mil, no?

His rebounding isn't average. It flat out sucks. I haven't checked every player, but I'd be surprised if there is a worse rebounding rotation player in the league over 6'3". His 5.6 TRB% is about average for a 6'0" PG. Tim Frazier plays with Anthony Davis and Boogie Cousins and even with those guys gobbling up all the rebounds, Frazier still has a higher TRB% than Allen Crabbe. I could go on. It's easy to find PGs that are better rebounders than Crabbe. What's hard is finding guys who aren't PGs that are worse rebounders.

Edit: OK, I just did a comprehensive search, and Crabbe isn't the worst rebounding rotation player in the entire league for his size. He's 3rd worst. Only Evan Fournier at 6'7" TRB% = 5.4% and Devin Booker 6'6" TRB% = 5.0% are worse. There are also a handful of 6'4" and 6'5" SGs that are worse.

BNM

 

[Blazinaway]

Why does it matter? Because in 5 years the only top shooters that won't be making what Crabbe is making are guys on rookie contracts (and those guys will be in the minority)

And you can write "Crabbe is one dimensional" a thousand more times and it still won't make it factual.

why do you say that, the cap starts to level out very soon so the idea that a shooter like Crabbe will be cheap in 5 yrs seems a farce, its about 94 mil this yr

Report: NBA also reduces projected 2018-19 salary cap to $103 million, estimate for 2017/2018 is 102 mil, that was from a Feb 2017 article

 

[Sinobas]

I don't think anyone that says to get rid of Crabbe would say so if he was making 5M. 3rd or 1st or whatever from 3 the fact is we cannot afford both him and Turner so just talking about his "stats" doesn't really mean anything. And when we pay another 80(at least-I think more) to Nurkic next year the problem will be huge.

I wish we could keep everyone and sign even more players, but this is not realistic so anyone that says get rid of Crabbe doesn't have to justify himself and answer questions on how you replace his 3%. It's just a realistic approach and Joe Harris is not that worse a shooter for example. If NO says we don't have a prob to pay lux tax for 3-4 years in a row then ok, keep them, I'm happy.

I think Neil has to shed some salary to retain Vonleh and Nurkic.

 

[Sinobas]

why do you say that, the cap starts to level out very soon so the idea that a shooter like Crabbe will be cheap in 5 yrs seems a farce, its about 94 mil this yr

Report: NBA also reduces projected 2018-19 salary cap to $103 million, estimate for 2017/2018 is 102 mil, that was from a Feb 2017 article

Because people that say that kind of shit have no sense of proportion.

 

[Blazinaway]

Because people that say that kind of shit have no sense of proportion.

they prefer "alternate facts" or reality

 

[Pinwheel1]

The thing about Crabbe is I have seen him make some strong rebounds in traffic. So it is not an issue that he can't be a good rebounder. He has the length to do it. Maybe they want him to stay on his man on the perimeter instead of crashing the boards? or maybe Terry wants him to break down court? Hard to say why his numbers suck.

PG's are often good rebounders because their man often attacks the basket and they are in good position for the long rebound, plus they need to hang back and get the outlet pass.

 

[Sinobas]

Some Nugget fans are actually trying to console themselves by saying Portland is going to be royally screwed in luxury tax payments if they resign Nurk.

Portland is going to have to do something like package Leonard, Harkless and a 1st for some crappy player over-paid player whose contract is expiring, or to a team that could absorb it. LIke Leonard/Harkless and a 1st to the nets for Booker. Harkless and Leonard combined would be about enough to pay for Nurkic without going deep into the tax, and we'd still have Turner/Crabbe to play the 3.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

You can get what Allen Crabbe gives you for a WHOLE lot less money. And, given our pending luxury tax problem that's a huge incentive to trade him.

BNM

That brings up a question of why any other team would trade for him. And if they won't, then why not keep him, at least until his contract is short enough so maybe someone would trade for him. If Paul Allen needs to pay a lot of luxury tax until then, so be it.

 

[Sinobas]

Hardly rebounding, hardy stealing the ball, hardly passing. And his 3% is elite, but his 3pt makes are far far far from elite (pretty much same average 3s with Joe Harris for example). Only 1.6 which is pretty much what he can find wide open. If he could create his shot and take this to 2+ then he would be really something (still not worth 18M, but something).

Turner has been pretty underwhelming too so whoever brings back the most has to go.

Exactly. People get excited about 3pt%, but don't take into account if those players are shooting assited open shots or are if they are having to put up more contested shots since they are carrying a scoring burden for the team (like lillard and cj).

Damian Lillard is a better shooter than Crabbe, even though his 3pt% is much lower. 98% of Crabbe's 3pt shots are assisted, as opposed to 51% for Damian.

 

[Sinobas]

Lots of trade ideas floating around the internet. Found this one interesting.

Portland trades, Crabbe, Turner, Butters and a draft pick or two to the Nets for Brook Lopez. Adjust as needed.

Lopez is an expiring next season, so the cap is clear when it is time to re-sign Nurkic and Vonleh.

Nets reset with younger talent.

Why would the Nets do that? All 3 of those guys are massively over-paid. Why not just keep Lopez? Crabbe, Turner, and Leonard combined make like 47 mil.

I have a hard time seeing any team wanting take on any of them.

 

[Sinobas]

Ed Davis is another trade piece. He might actually have positive trade value.

 

[rotary111]

Some Nugget fans are actually trying to console themselves by saying Portland is going to be royally screwed in luxury tax payments if they resign Nurk.


SOOOOO they have admitted that he is now so good that he deserves a massive contract. HAHAHA. Suckers. Someone will get fired over that trade.

 

[Hobbesarable]

Some Nugget fans are actually trying to console themselves by saying Portland is going to be royally screwed in luxury tax payments if they resign Nurk.

Portland is going to have to do something like package Leonard, Harkless and a 1st for some crappy player over-paid player whose contract is expiring, or to a team that could absorb it. LIke Leonard/Harkless and a 1st to the nets for Booker. Harkless and Leonard combined would be about enough to pay for Nurkic without going deep into the tax, and we'd still have Turner/Crabbe to play the 3.

I'd like to see Olshey trade Meyers Leonard and one of the following two players having more trade value: Evan Turner or Allen Crabbe. However, I'm not sure what he can get in return for them.

 

[BonesJones]

Lmfao. That's all this post is worth.

That's a cop-out response for someone that doesn't know how to counter a valid point.

 

[BonesJones]

Why would the Nets do that? All 3 of those guys are massively over-paid. Why not just keep Lopez? Crabbe, Turner, and Leonard combined make like 47 mil.

I have a hard time seeing any team wanting take on any of them.

Getting 1 pick for Lopez and 1 pick+Crabbe for taking on Turner. They like Crabbe. Leonard won't matter to them. That's the logic.

 

[oldfisherman]

Why would the Nets do that? All 3 of those guys are massively over-paid. Why not just keep Lopez? Crabbe, Turner, and Leonard combined make like 47 mil.

I have a hard time seeing any team wanting take on any of them.

There were several Nets fans that were in favor of trading Lopez for our 3 salary dumps and draft picks. Many neutral fans thought it was a good trade or close to being good for both teams. Including one whose view I respect. The Nets future looks very bleak and they need help.

The Nets do not have their own first round pick until 2019. Between our players and a first round pick or two from this draft, they can at least field a young team that might win a few more games.

If the trade was made, this would probably be the biggest salary dump in NBA history.

Of course I have no Idea how the two GMs feel about this trade idea. But I thought it was an interesting bold idea.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I'd like to see Olshey trade Meyers Leonard and one of the following two players having more trade value: Evan Turner or Allen Crabbe. However, I'm not sure what he can get in return for them.

The problem is if we just move Meyers, we will not be under the luxury tax threshold. Even if we dumped him on a team under the cap for a future 2nd round draft pick, we'd only be about us about half way there. We'd need to move at least one more sizable contract.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

That brings up a question of why any other team would trade for him. And if they won't, then why not keep him, at least until his contract is short enough so maybe someone would trade for him. If Paul Allen needs to pay a lot of luxury tax until then, so be it.

Because most other teams aren't in the same luxury tax hell we are. Many will be under the cap this summer and several will even be under the salary floor. Some also view Crabbe as a potential starter, and he could start for some of the worst teams in the league like BRK or PHI. So, overpaying him is must less consequential to them.

In POR's case, it's not just about the money, although that starts to add up really quickly (do you really want a player like Allen Crabbe costing you over $100 million a year?), it's about the other penalties associated with being over the "apron" - the point $4 million above the tax threshold. Right now, we're projected to be $20 million over the tax threshold, it we do nothing, for the 2017-18 season. Declining Ezeli's team option get's us to about $14 million over the tax threshold, or $10 million over the apron, and that's without adding anyone to take Ezeli's roster spot. Being over the apron means you lose your bi-annual exception. It also means the amount of your MLE goes down. There are also much tighter restrictions on trades you can make. Basically, it makes it much harder to make roster moves to improve your team.

And, then there is the higher tax rate for repeat offenders. If we keep Crabbe as long as you suggest, we will be in repeater tax territory even if we don't resign Nurkic or Vonleh. A team that is a repeat offender that is $20 million over the tax threshold pays $4.75 for every dollar they are over the threshold. If we keep Crabbe, his salary in 2018-19 will be $19,332,500. At the repeater tax level we would be at, not even counting any raises Norkic and Vonleh get, Crabbe's contract would cost the team $111,161,185 per year. I can see Paul Allen shelling out that kind of dough to keep Damian Lillard, or maybe C.J. McCollum, or possibly Jusuf Nurkic, but $100 million a year for Allen Crabbe, no way.

We need to cut a shit ton of salary and we need to do it before next February's trade deadline and Crabbe has the biggest contract other than Dame of C.J. He needs to go, and if we want to resign Nurkic and Vonleh, Turner and Leonard will likely need to go before the 2019 trade deadline as well. We already have two max players in Dame and C.J. Nurkic will likely be a third, or at least close to it. You just can't have a bench player making nearly $20 million a year when you have three other max. contract players on your roster.

BNM