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BonesJones said:
Another thing we could try:

LAC Gets: C.J. McCollum, 2019 1st (if LAC demands it), Emmanuel Mudiay
NYK Gets: Tobias Harris, Maurice Harkless,
POR Gets: Joakim Noah, 9th Pick, 38th Pick (From NYK), Danillo Gallinari, 12th Pick, 13th Pick, (From LAC)

The Clippers save $12M over the next 3 years by swapping out Harris for McCollum while also shedding Gallinari's contract. Could be a major step to future space for Kawhi, Paul George, and/or LeBron, while adding the best talent in the deal.
The Knicks shed Joakim Noah's and Courtney Lee's contracts turning them into serviceable young talent in Harris and Harkless while giving up the 9th pick.

For us, we would have the 9th, 12th, 13th, 24th, and 38th picks. That's a ton of draft capital. We double down on bad contracts but with Noah, Lee, Gallinari, Leonard, and Turner all expiring in 2020, with some great young talent on rookie contracts, we could make some serious moves then to try and contend in 2021 and beyond. Dame would be 30-31 then, but hopefully he'd still be in his prime and our young talent would be all-star level.

With the 9th, 12th, 13th, 24th, and 38th picks, what could we do?

Here's what I would try:

Trade up for Michael Porter Jr. and add a SG
9, 12, 2019 or 2021 1st, Aminu, Leonard to ATL for Bazemore, 4th Pick.
9, 12, 2019 or 2021 1st, Aminu, Leonard to ORL for Fournier, 5th Pick.
9, 12, 38 to CHI for Valentine (Vonleh TPE), 6th Pick

Fournier could possibly opt out in 2020, but Bazemore would be a FA then, and Valentine would be as well, thus those two would be better options in our plan for 2020 (see below)

Trade 13 to 10 for Bridges, take on Bayless salary to clear cap space for PHI, (PHI dumps Bayless and moves down 3 spots)

Draft Chandler Hutchison 24th

Lillard / Baldwin / Bayless
Fournier? / Turner / Hutchison
Bridges / Porter Jr. / Layman
Collins / Gallinari / Swanigan
Nurkic / Davis / Papagiannis

? - Could be Bazemore or Valentine

Porter would come off the bench as a 6th man scorer until he was ready to be in the starting lineup. He could develop as a PF is he adds a little strength. Would be a serious matchup problem there if he develops well.

Going into free agency in 2020, I could see us trading Nurkic for cap space and picks (or trading Nurkic and picks for a star, but lets assume we trade Nurkic for cap space). We'd have $60M or so in cap space to add to the following starting lineup:

Lillard / Hutchison / Bridges / Porter Jr. / Collins

Or we could easily keep Nurkic and still have cap space for a max player.

A Porter Jr. & Collins frontcourt would be built for the modern NBA. That'd be lethal.

Hutchison is the least likely to develop so we could be looking to add a SG to bring Hutchison off the bench.

Guys we could pursue: Jimmy Butler, Kawhi Leonard, Khris Middleton, Kevin Love, Draymond Green.

Or we could fill out the bench with good pieces on one-year deals and try again in 2021.
Click to expand...

Bones, what would you think about a deal with just NY like this:

CJ and Leonard for Noah, Lee, #9, #37, and 2020 1st.

We take on a really bad contract (one of the 3 worst in the league) but get to dump one of our bad ones back. Lee would be a temporary CJ replacement and we'd get some good draft capital.

Then offer the TPE and any combination of #24, the Knicks 2020 1st, or one of our future 1sts for Khris Middleton (might be impossible if they win Game 7). Draft Mikal Bridges.

All of a sudden our wing rotation becomes Middleton, Lee, Bridges, and Harkless. Turner could be the backup PG depending on Baldwin's development and we could always re-sign Napier if needed.

Dame/Turner/Baldwin
Middleton/Lee
Harkless/Bridges/Layman (or #37 pick)
Collins/Aminu/Swanigan
Nurk/Davis/PapaG/Noah
 
hoopsjock said:
Bones, what would you think about a deal with just NY like this:

CJ and Leonard for Noah, Lee, #9, #37, and 2020 1st.

We take on a really bad contract (one of the 3 worst in the league) but get to dump one of our bad ones back. Lee would be a temporary CJ replacement and we'd get some good draft capital.

Then offer the TPE and any combination of #24, the Knicks 2020 1st, or one of our future 1sts for Khris Middleton (might be impossible if they win Game 7). Draft Mikal Bridges.

All of a sudden our wing rotation becomes Middleton, Lee, Bridges, and Harkless. Turner could be the backup PG depending on Baldwin's development and we could always re-sign Napier if needed.

Dame/Turner/Baldwin
Middleton/Lee
Harkless/Bridges/Layman (or #37 pick)
Collins/Aminu/Swanigan
Nurk/Davis/PapaG/Noah
Click to expand...
I'd take that for sure, just think that Milwaukee wouldn't trade Middleton at all. Even for two 1sts.
 
hoopsjock said:
Would you do it without Middleton if it was just the NY part?
Click to expand...
Probably not.

Jimmy Butler got a #7 overall pick, a 5th overall pick from the year before, and a young 20ppg scorer.

I'd want at least 1, if not 2 of those.
 
I wonder if Otto Porter Jr will be available if Oubre shows he can handle the load left by Porter missing the rest of the first rd on beyond.

Porter Jr brings essentially what good Harkless does but on a consistent basis and with the chance of a 30 pt game every month. His contract is insane and would be hard to match in a logical trade scenario. And then you would essentially have three max contract guys on the pay roll with Porter Jr, McCollum, and Lillard for the next three years. Still, he’s a versatile defender who can play the 3 or 4 and shoots 40% from three on twice as many attempt as Harkless.
 
BonesJones said:
Probably not.

Jimmy Butler got a #7 overall pick, a 5th overall pick from the year before, and a young 20ppg scorer.

I'd want at least 1, if not 2 of those.
Click to expand...
The Bulls did have to give the 16th pick to the Wolves in that trade though. So it was more like moving up 9 spots not just getting the 7th pick outright. Butler is also a better player on a cheaper contract. The 2020 pick is the wild card. How about pick swap rights in 2019 too?

Also, LaVine was coming off an ACL injury and is in a contract year and Dunn had a really bad rookie year.
 
hoopsjock said:
The Bulls did have to give the 16th pick to the Wolves in that trade though. So it was more like moving up 9 spots not just getting the 7th pick outright. Butler is also a better player on a cheaper contract. The 2020 pick is the wild card. How about pick swap rights in 2019 too?

Also, LaVine was coming off an ACL injury and is in a contract year and Dunn had a really bad rookie year.
Click to expand...
Which is why I want one. I want Bridges but.. is he really worth swapping McCollum for?
 
What about this?

WAS Gets: Caleb Swanigan, 2019 1st Round Pick, 19th Pick,
POR Gets: Otto Porter, Jason Smith (TPE), Lance Thomas (TPE), 15th Pick,
NYK Gets: Maurice Harkless
ATL Gets: 24th Pick, 38th Pick, Al-Farouq Aminu, Damyeon Dotson

WAS saves $30M per year in salary, gets future 1st, moves down 4 slots, and gets a 1st round selection from last year.
NYK sheds Thomas's contract and get a guy they like in Harkless for the price of a couple 2nds
ATL adds a PF that they need, a young project, and a 2nd round pick to move down from 19 to 24.

We add a great 3-and-D wing for a 1st, double down on the final year of a couple of bad contracts using our TPE, and move up 9 picks in the draft.

Draft Khyri Thomas 15th

Sign Ersan Ilyasova MLE

Lillard / Thomas
McCollum / Thomas
Porter / Turner
Collins / Ilyasova
Nurkic / Davis
 
Another Porter idea:

ATL Gets: Leonard, Aminu
POR Gets: Porter, Plumlee (TPE)
WAS Gets: Swanigan, Layman, 2019 POR 1st, (Maybe 2021 POR 1st?)

Washington saves $23M in yearly salary, adds a 1st as well as a late 1st from last year in Swanigan for Porter.
Atlanta swaps Plumlee for the cheaper Leonard, adds a cheap, expiring PF (they have little depth there).

Draft Hutchison 24th

Sign a backup PF for MLE

And then once LeBron leaves CLE:
Turner and Future 2nds for Hill

Lillard / Hill / Baldwin
McCollum / Hill / Connaughton?
Porter / Harkless / Hutchison
Collins / Ilyasova?
Nurkic / Davis

Top 5 bench, possibly the best defensive bench in the league. Porter and Collins give good floor spacing and defense.
 
BonesJones said:
Another Porter idea:

ATL Gets: Leonard, Aminu
POR Gets: Porter, Plumlee (TPE)
WAS Gets: Swanigan, Layman, 2019 POR 1st, (Maybe 2021 POR 1st?)
Click to expand...

Let’s ignore the fact that this trade doesn’t work financially.

Portland isn’t going to give up Aminu for trash, he’s too important to the team. Plumlee is an even worse contract/player than Leonard, and you want us to throw in one of our starters as well? What?

Washington would have to be nuts to give up Porter for the three essentially non assets you listed. In past threads you suggested trading an expiring Ed for a first round pick. You think he has the same value as Otto Porter? Yes they have Oubre, but he isn’t anywhere near Porters level as a player and hes still on his rookie scale contract. That trade wouldn’t make them better, and you don’t salary dump an asset like Porter. They’re also looking for more athletic bigs, so they’d most likely have little to no interest in Biggie.
 
Scalma said:
Let’s ignore the fact that this trade doesn’t work financially.

Portland isn’t going to give up Aminu for trash, he’s too important to the team. Plumlee is an even worse contract/player than Leonard, and you want us to throw in one of our starters as well? What?

Washington would have to be nuts to give up Porter for the three essentially non assets you listed. In past threads you suggested trading an expiring Ed for a first round pick. You think he has the same value as Otto Porter? Yes they have Oubre, but he isn’t anywhere near Porters level as a player and hes still on his rookie scale contract. That trade wouldn’t make them better, and you don’t salary dump an asset like Porter. They’re also looking for more athletic bigs, so they’d most likely have little to no interest in Biggie.
Click to expand...
How does is not work financially?

So Washington isn't going to trade Porter to us because he's good, and were not gong ti trade Aminu for trash? Huh? Theyre thrown in to mange salaries match for Porter. Swapping Leonard for a worse contract player but one that fits in the TPE means no money coming in and only Leonard's salary going out.

Part of the deal for Washington is that they save around $20M. They have Oubre and they'd have their full MLE in. Ed is underrated.. I suggested a team with a bottom 5 first round pick trading for Ed and a future early 2nd (MIN/LAL). I'm suggesting trading two 1sts for Otto and saving Washington $20M. That's the core of the deal.
 
Last edited:
BonesJones said:
How does is not work financially?

So Washington isn't going to trade Porter to us because he's good, and were not gong ti trade Aminu for trash? Huh? Theyre thrown in to mange salaries match for Porter. Swapping Leonard for a worse contract player but one that fits in the TPE means no money coming in and only Leonard's salary going out.

Part of the deal for Washington is that they save around $20M. They have Oubre and they'd have their full MLE in. Ed is underrated.. I suggested a team with a bottom 5 first round pick trading for Ed and a future early 2nd (MIN/LAL). I'm suggesting trading two 1sts for Otto and saving Washington $20M. That's the core of the deal.
Click to expand...

Why are you still arguing about a trade that’s literally impossible the way you’ve constructed it?

We can go in circles about the rest but what’s the point
 
Scalma said:
Why are you still arguing about a trade that’s literally impossible the way you’ve constructed it?

We can go in circles about the rest but what’s the point
Click to expand...
I'm not sure it's impossible, it actually raises a question I've had for a while, and you haven't stated which part doesn't work financially.

ATL Gets: Leonard, Aminu
POR Gets: Porter, Plumlee (TPE)
WAS Gets: Swanigan, Layman, 2019 POR 1st, (Maybe 2021 POR 1st?)

Portland Outgoing Salary:
Leonard ($10.60M)
Aminu ($6.96M)
Swanigan ($1.74M)
Layman ($1.54M)
Outgoing Salary = $20.84M (125%+$100K = $26.15M)

Portland Incoming Salary:
Porter ($26.01M)
Plumlee ($12.50M)*
Incoming Salary = $26.01 (less than $26.15M)
*Plumlee acquired via Traded Player Exception so his contract doesn't apply

But this raises a CBA question I've had for a while @hoopsjock. Can you bring in more that $5M in incoming salary if it's within 125%+$100K? The CBA words it in extremely confusing terms and the trade machine just applies 125%+$100K.

If 125%+$1ooK applies here, then the trade works
If a $5M max difference applies, then the trade doesn't work by a grand total $170K...

 
BonesJones said:
I'm not sure it's impossible, it actually raises a question I've had for a while, and you haven't stated which part doesn't work financially.

ATL Gets: Leonard, Aminu
POR Gets: Porter, Plumlee (TPE)
WAS Gets: Swanigan, Layman, 2019 POR 1st, (Maybe 2021 POR 1st?)

Portland Outgoing Salary:
Leonard ($10.60M)
Aminu ($6.96M)
Swanigan ($1.74M)
Layman ($1.54M)
Outgoing Salary = $20.84M (125%+$100K = $26.15M)

Portland Incoming Salary:
Porter ($26.01M)
Plumlee ($12.50M)*
Incoming Salary = $26.01 (less than $26.15M)
*Plumlee acquired via Traded Player Exception so his contract doesn't apply

But this raises a CBA question I've had for a while @hoopsjock. Can you bring in more that $5M in incoming salary if it's within 125%+$100K? The CBA words it in extremely confusing terms and the trade machine just applies 125%+$100K.

If 125%+$1ooK applies here, then the trade works
If a $5M max difference applies, then the trade doesn't work by a grand total $170K...
Click to expand...
If it doesn't work, we could try a few other things that still result in Washington saving $20M-$25M (I'm pretty sure they want to avoid the tax, and getting picks could allow them to shed other contracts to create max cap space.

ATL Gets: Evan Turner, Caleb Swanigan, Future 2nds
POR Gets: Otto Porter Jr, Miles Plumlee (TPE)
WAS Gets: Jake Layman, 2019 POR 1st, 2021 POR 1st

I like that better actually, and it definitely works cap wise. Atlanta pays an extra $5M on a bad contract they don't want in order to get a couple 2nds and a young PF in Swanigan (they have Collins at that position and that's it).
Washington saves even more, saving around $25M in this deal while getting two draft picks. We get Otto Porter, keep Aminu, and bring Harkless off the bench.
 
Either way, we need to find a way to land Otto Porter Jr. He's exactly what we need at the SF position. Good defender, very efficient 3rd option (50/44/83 - TS% of 60%). Washington is in a weird spot, and they got Kelly Oubre in the pipeline and might want to get rid of Porter's contract for some assets. The 3-team deal I proposed above is perfect IMO, for us, for them, and for Atlanta. But either way, we gotta figure out a way to land him.
 
BonesJones said:
If it doesn't work, we could try a few other things that still result in Washington saving $20M-$25M (I'm pretty sure they want to avoid the tax, and getting picks could allow them to shed other contracts to create max cap space.

ATL Gets: Evan Turner, Caleb Swanigan, Future 2nds
POR Gets: Otto Porter Jr, Miles Plumlee (TPE)
WAS Gets: Jake Layman, 2019 POR 1st, 2021 POR 1st

I like that better actually, and it definitely works cap wise. Atlanta pays an extra $5M on a bad contract they don't want in order to get a couple 2nds and a young PF in Swanigan (they have Collins at that position and that's it).
Washington saves even more, saving around $25M in this deal while getting two draft picks. We get Otto Porter, keep Aminu, and bring Harkless off the bench.
Click to expand...

Why would Washington do that? That’s a straight salary dump for a starting SF, maybe the hardest position to fill with quality in today’s nba.

Why would Atlanta take on salary for Evan Turner and a backup? Turner has zero value and Swanigans is limited. Those late seconds are almost worthless. They could buy them for less.
 
BonesJones said:
I'm not sure it's impossible, it actually raises a question I've had for a while, and you haven't stated which part doesn't work financially.

ATL Gets: Leonard, Aminu
POR Gets: Porter, Plumlee (TPE)
WAS Gets: Swanigan, Layman, 2019 POR 1st, (Maybe 2021 POR 1st?)

Portland Outgoing Salary:
Leonard ($10.60M)
Aminu ($6.96M)
Swanigan ($1.74M)
Layman ($1.54M)
Outgoing Salary = $20.84M (125%+$100K = $26.15M)

Portland Incoming Salary:
Porter ($26.01M)
Plumlee ($12.50M)*
Incoming Salary = $26.01 (less than $26.15M)
*Plumlee acquired via Traded Player Exception so his contract doesn't apply

But this raises a CBA question I've had for a while @hoopsjock. Can you bring in more that $5M in incoming salary if it's within 125%+$100K? The CBA words it in extremely confusing terms and the trade machine just applies 125%+$100K.

If 125%+$1ooK applies here, then the trade works
If a $5M max difference applies, then the trade doesn't work by a grand total $170K...
Click to expand...

What happens to Ed in this situation?

Why do we need Plums if we have Ed?
 
Scalma said:
Why would Washington do that? That’s a straight salary dump for a starting SF, maybe the hardest position to fill with quality in today’s nba.

Why would Atlanta take on salary for Evan Turner and a backup? Turner has zero value and Swanigans is limited. Those late seconds are almost worthless. They could buy them for less.
Click to expand...
I think you're wrong about Turner. While he's been in a shooting slump lately, he usually deadly with those post up turn around jumpers.
 
Lanny said:
I think you're wrong about Turner. While he's been in a shooting slump lately, he usually deadly with those post up turn around jumpers.
Click to expand...

He shot 43% from 3ft out to 3pt line... I wouldn’t call that deadly.
 
Lanny said:
I think you're wrong about Turner. While he's been in a shooting slump lately, he usually deadly with those post up turn around jumpers.
Click to expand...

I hate his turn around jumper almost as much as I hated LAs top of the key jumper. I don’t know the numbers, but both seem inefficient.
 
BonesJones said:
Either way, we need to find a way to land Otto Porter Jr. He's exactly what we need at the SF position. Good defender, very efficient 3rd option (50/44/83 - TS% of 60%). Washington is in a weird spot, and they got Kelly Oubre in the pipeline and might want to get rid of Porter's contract for some assets. The 3-team deal I proposed above is perfect IMO, for us, for them, and for Atlanta. But either way, we gotta figure out a way to land him.
Click to expand...

They'll be looking to move Porter if they try and trade Wall for Kawhi.
 
Scalma said:
Why would Washington do that? That’s a straight salary dump for a starting SF, maybe the hardest position to fill with quality in today’s nba.

Why would Atlanta take on salary for Evan Turner and a backup? Turner has zero value and Swanigans is limited. Those late seconds are almost worthless. They could buy them for less.
Click to expand...
Seems like a lot of their fans want Porter gone so they can upgrade their depth.

I'm gonna start with the Turner thing:
You're looking at Turner by himself. You gotta realize they have an equally useless player in Miles Plumlee for $12.5M that they're sending out. They'll have apx. $26M in cap space with no one wanting to sign there. One of those 2nds would be the 2019 Best of MIN/LAL which could be an early 2nd to add someone like Dillon Brooks or Jordan Bell. So the question is, would Atlanta pay an extra $5M over the next two years to add Caleb Swanigan and have a chance at drafting someone like a Dillon Brooks or Jordan Bell? I think the answer is yes.

Washington would do that because they likely want to avoid the luxury tax, and are currently projected to be $5M above it. They have Oubre as a replacement, who's developing well and deserves a starting role and could possibly replace Porter's production for only a fraction of the the cost next year. Not only that, they would also have a lot more flexibility at improving the team.

They'd have two future 1sts along with a $25M trade exception, which could be used to land a legitimate star at the deadline next year (Paul George or Kawhi Leonard?)
I believe they could also use the full MLE this summer. Not sure if they'd have to renounce their trade exception. Either way, they could sign someone like Ellington who could replace Oubre's bench role (Satoransky is 6'7 so he could guard SGs and SFs since Ellington is small). They could also draft someone like Kevin Knox to replace Oubre's bench role.

They could also try to make max cap space to go after someone like Cousins (who played with Wall in college and is still friendly with him). They would have a plethora of picks to attach to guys like Marcin Gortat ($13M), Jason Smith ($5M), Jodie Meeks ($3M), and especially Ian Mahinmi ($16M).

It's obvious that the status quo isn't going to work. They're kind of in the same position as us and could be looking to retool and add that legitimate 3rd star they need. This would allow them a pathway to do that, and the worst case scenario is an increased role for the rapidly developing Oubre, no luxury tax and huge savings, as well as future picks.
 
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