OT Sunday School time? or Science?

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

I think we are afraid to believe that we are alone in this world, so man has made up gods since the beginning of our time. What makes this god any different than Oden, Zeus, Ra, or Jupiter? History has proven that even thousands of years ago, man has used religion to control the populace and profit. When Alexander the Great conquered Egypt, he was told that if he went through their rituals to become the new Pharaoh, he would become their god and the people would be less likely to revolt. This was an amazing realization for Alexander, so he sent word back to Greece that the temples were to now start telling the people that he was a god.

So what makes Christianity any different? It has been used to control the populace. The Catholic church has done terrible things in the name of God. All of the death and torture and persecution that has happened under Christianity. And it is still used today to take people's money and manipulate the people all over the world.

I think there's still something larger than us, but I don't think it's the Christian god. That story has been twisted and altered and revised so many times, who even knows what really happened over 2,000 years ago.
I've always believed Jesus and his followers were all normal people that created a cult to try and gain power over others. Had his followers write passages and compiled the Bible. Would make sense why some would want him gone, but instead of for some sort of holy reason, it was because his cult was dangerous.
 
I've always believed Jesus and his followers were all normal people that created a cult to try and gain power over others. Had his followers write passages and compiled the Bible. Would make sense why some would want him gone, but instead of for some sort of holy reason, it was because his cult was dangerous.
And most of the apostles as well as jesus suffered horrific torture because they wanted to control people? How can you control people if you are dead?

I dont think you thought this through...
 
I was just about to ask...the Torah had been around almost 1500 years by the time Jesus showed up. The New Testament was written between 20 (Mark) and 60 (Revelation) years after his death. Compiled in its fullest modern form after Nicea, 280 years or so after his death...How was he controlling a cult on this?
 
And most of the apostles as well as jesus suffered horrific torture because they wanted to control people? How can you control people if you are dead?

I dont think you thought this through...
How do you know they suffered horrific torture?
 
I was just about to ask...the Torah had been around almost 1500 years by the time Jesus showed up. The New Testament was written between 20 (Mark) and 60 (Revelation) years after his death. Compiled in its fullest modern form after Nicea, 280 years or so after his death...How was he controlling a cult on this?
When studying a timeline and occurrences from ~2000 years ago, everything's murky. There's so much subjectivity that people can morph things into however they want to believe they were.

I think logically... Or at least it just makes more logical sense to me that the dude was a type of cult-leader than a Messiah. Stories from a time that long ago have no ability to be validated. "He was tortured to no end" yada yada... Could've been something that didn't really happen but him and/or his followers pushed for various reason.

I know many religious people that would be offended by this, but my belief is just as valid as theirs. No physical proof. Religion is often a belief system that is inherited as well. If your parents are Mormon, you're more likely to be Mormon. I hate the recruitment-style tactics of religions as well... That part seems extremely cult-ish to me as well, or at least valuing money as much as the religion. I echo @Natebishop3's sentiments on this.
 
How do you know they suffered horrific torture?
There are multiple sources of non-Christian historical scholars and archaeologists who have stated that the historicity of the biblical record, especially as it relates to the Gospels and New Testament, is pretty legit. There are very few credible scholars who doubt that, in the early 30's AD, there was an itinerant preacher named Jesus of Nazareth whose followers thought that he performed miracles. Almost nobody credible disagrees that said itinerant preacher was sentenced to crucifixion by a joint Roman/Judaic trial. And many of the stories (myths?) about his followers are in multiple books of high historical regard. Now, whether he was the Son of God, rose bodily into Heaven after his death and entombment and gave the Holy Spirit to all believers? People will debate that until the Last Days. But whether the apostles actually lived, and suffered torture (in their words) "for the sake of the Gospel"? Yeah, that's pretty well documented.

If you're really curious I can give you a ton of books to check out.
 
When studying a timeline and occurrences from ~2000 years ago, everything's murky. There's so much subjectivity that people can morph things into however they want to believe they were.

I think logically... Or at least it just makes more logical sense to me that the dude was a type of cult-leader than a Messiah. Stories from a time that long ago have no ability to be validated. "He was tortured to no end" yada yada... Could've been something that didn't really happen but him and/or his followers pushed for various reason.

I know many religious people that would be offended by this, but my belief is just as valid as theirs. No physical proof. Religion is often a belief system that is inherited as well. If your parents are Mormon, you're more likely to be Mormon. I hate the recruitment-style tactics of religions as well... That part seems extremely cult-ish to me as well, or at least valuing money as much as the religion. I echo @Natebishop3's sentiments on this.
I'm not offended by this, because I've been where you've been, but you haven't been where I've been. :dunno: And I'd say that irreligion is much easier to inherit and propogate than a belief system. If your parents aren't every-Sabbath-attending members of a solid, biblical-foundational local church whose preaching both edifies and points out your need for a Savior, then you're much more likely to either a) be irreligious yourself or b) come across the Holy Spirit at a time when one of those pesky cult recruiters comes along and see the light.
 
I've always believed Jesus and his followers were all normal people that created a cult to try and gain power over others. Had his followers write passages and compiled the Bible. Would make sense why some would want him gone, but instead of for some sort of holy reason, it was because his cult was dangerous.

As a sort of bystander, perhaps just one that compares religion(s) and the alternatives. I find those that oppose the teaching of Jesus to be more of and organised cult
than any honest church that leads their people to follow his teachings. The Christian has proven to be more my bother, than any that would silence, restrict, and force them to conform.
 
Last edited:
How do you know they suffered horrific torture?
Hostory book bro. Try reading one. Even Josephus who absolutely despised Jesus wrote about his death. Little did he know he was confirming biblical accounts, not refuting them.
 
When studying a timeline and occurrences from ~2000 years ago, everything's murky. There's so much subjectivity that people can morph things into however they want to believe they were.

I think logically... Or at least it just makes more logical sense to me that the dude was a type of cult-leader than a Messiah. Stories from a time that long ago have no ability to be validated. "He was tortured to no end" yada yada... Could've been something that didn't really happen but him and/or his followers pushed for various reason.

I know many religious people that would be offended by this, but my belief is just as valid as theirs. No physical proof. Religion is often a belief system that is inherited as well. If your parents are Mormon, you're more likely to be Mormon. I hate the recruitment-style tactics of religions as well... That part seems extremely cult-ish to me as well, or at least valuing money as much as the religion. I echo @Natebishop3's sentiments on this.
Read foxes book of martyrs. Modern day martyrs exist too. How do people sing hymns in complete peace while being burned alive or boiled in oil? Because paul and jesus were like yo, lets control people bro. You know paul was in prison when he penned philippians? And he said he couldnt be happier because he was able to tell prisoners and prison guards about jesus.

You know it's funny. Athiest always want mountains of evidence when it comes to proving jesus, but dont provide a shred of evidence for macro evolution besides some finches with different sized beaks. No, evolution holds true on blind faith alone.
 
Hostory book bro. Try reading one. Even Josephus who absolutely despised Jesus wrote about his death. Little did he know he was confirming biblical accounts, not refuting them.

I expect you would enjoy a vacation here sometime when you can. Fasinating!
largest-outdoor-theatre-in-ancient-world.jpg

great theater of Ephesus

The Muslims there enjoy telling of Paul and how they even jailed him.

http://www.biblestudy.org/biblepic/ephesus-apostle-paul-missionary-journeys.html
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top