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Nikolokolus said:
I couldn't possibly disagree more. The NBA completely overreacted to fighting after the Pacers-Pistons brawl. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be repercussions for throwing a punch, but if guys want to square up and have it, it would eliminate a lot of the "fake tough guy posturing" bullshit that goes on now-a-days.
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If KG started in this era, he'd have been half the player.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I couldn't possibly disagree more. The NBA completely overreacted to fighting after the Pacers-Pistons brawl. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be repercussions for throwing a punch, but if guys want to square up and have it, it would eliminate a lot of the "fake tough guy posturing" bullshit that goes on now-a-days.
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I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. The rule, or whether that should be the rule? I posted the rule. Bogut should be suspended under the rule, and if not, then the NBA has zero credibility and doesn't follow their own rules.
 
Blazer Fanatic said:
Officials have been instructed to eject a player who throws a punch, whether or not it connects, or an elbow which makes contact above shoulder level. If elbow contact is shoulder level or below, it shall be left to the discretion of the official as to whether the player is ejected. Even if a punch or an elbow goes undetected by the officials during the game, but is detected during a review of a videotape, that player will be penalized.
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It didn't look to me like Bogut threw an elbow; rather he pushed Freeland away, and accidentally connected with Freeland's throat in the process.

Do the rules/"instructions" mention anything about intent? Deliberate versus accidental?
 
DUB said:
It didn't look to me like Bogut threw an elbow; rather he pushed Freeland away, and accidentally connected with Freeland's throat in the process.

Do the rules/"instructions" mention anything about intent? Deliberate versus accidental?
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It was intentional to the throat. I have no question about that.
 
DUB said:
It didn't look to me like Bogut threw an elbow; rather he pushed Freeland away, and accidentally connected with Freeland's throat in the process.

Do the rules/"instructions" mention anything about intent? Deliberate versus accidental?
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You're arguing that he accidentally raised his elbow to shoulder level and threw it at Freeland's face, connecting with his chin? With a fist full of jersey no less. lol

And no, they don't mention intent. Although, it was not incidental contact, it was deliberate.
 
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After watching this replay over and over, I really got to wonder what anyone could have expected from Mo. Sure, he ran into the whole thing and he didn't need to, but he started off trying to separate people, and the next thing you know he's being flung around like a rag doll with an arm through his jersey. I did see him come across the back of Bogut's head, but again, his arm was through Mo's jersey and he was kind of just throwing him around.

And I have to agree with Blazer Fanatic. No matter what you THINK should happen with players squaring off (and I agree to a certain extent, they are just a little too quick to call a slap or a shove something far worse than it is and as a result there's a lot of pretend tough guys in the league), the rules are quite clear about contact above the head. An elbow was driven into another player's neck and chin. He wasn't pushed into the man, he didn't slip and fall. The play was over, Bogut had hold of Joel's jersey in one hand pulling him in, and drove the elbow into him at the same time.
 
Well if the rules don't mention intent, then Bogut should have been thrown, and I can't see how he'll escape punishment after the review.
 
Blazer Fanatic said:
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. The rule, or whether that should be the rule? I posted the rule. Bogut should be suspended under the rule, and if not, then the NBA has zero credibility and doesn't follow their own rules.
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I didn't intend to bold the rule, it's just a formatting artifact in the way messages are quoted.
 
DUB said:
Well if the rules don't mention intent, then Bogut should have been thrown, and I can't see how he'll escape punishment after the review.
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I don't necessarily disagree that the fake touch guy stuff gets OLD. And the BS "he said something about my mom so I got my feelings hurt and pushed him" is absolutely stupid.

But that is exactly why I was so blown away when it happened and they announced the techs, because I knew the rule. And it is unambiguous and quite clear. The refs got it wrong.
 
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TheBlueDoggy said:
After watching this replay over and over, I really got to wonder what anyone could have expected from Mo. Sure, he ran into the whole thing and he didn't need to, but he started off trying to separate people, and the next thing you know he's being flung around like a rag doll with an arm through his jersey. I did see him come across the back of Bogut's head, but again, his arm was through Mo's jersey and he was kind of just throwing him around.

And I have to agree with Blazer Fanatic. No matter what you THINK should happen with players squaring off (and I agree to a certain extent, they are just a little too quick to call a slap or a shove something far worse than it is and as a result there's a lot of pretend tough guys in the league), the rules are quite clear about contact above the head. An elbow was driven into another player's neck and chin. He wasn't pushed into the man, he didn't slip and fall. The play was over, Bogut had hold of Joel's jersey in one hand pulling him in, and drove the elbow into him at the same time.
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Word. On all accounts.
 
Bogut is an epic jackass and got off scott free. I don't understand how Mo gets ejected for stepping between Bogut and the other players, and Bogut throws his hands into Mo's neck and face. From that top angle, Bogut makes contact with a 2 separate Blazers above the shoulders. IF Mo gets ejected, then Bogut must be ejected for shoving him in the face and neck. And that is even independent of the elbow Bogut throws and connects with Freeland's neck/chin. Just a horrible job by Bill POS Kennedy. Poop on Kennedy, and Bogut.
 
Blazer Fanatic said:
Bogut is an epic jackass and got off scott free. I don't understand how Mo gets ejected for stepping between Bogut and the other players, and Bogut throws his hands into Mo's neck and face. From that top angle, Bogut makes contact with a 2 separate Blazers above the shoulders. IF Mo gets ejected, then Bogut must be ejected for shoving him in the face and neck. And that is even independent of the elbow Bogut throws and connects with Freeland's neck/chin. Just a horrible job by Bill POS Kennedy. Poop on Kennedy, and Bogut.
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But having elbowgut on the floor as a target of rage was excellent. I like how the next play lillard went straight to the bucket and elbowgut was on his ass.
 
Blazer Fanatic said:
I don't understand how Mo gets ejected for stepping between Bogut and the other players, and Bogut throws his hands into Mo's neck and face. .
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Although I agree with everything you said, the league tends to penalize players who escalate events rather than those who commit a foul. It should have ended with a T to Bogut (and possible ejection) if Mo and Wes would not have jumped in.

Now I am glad they did come to their teammates back for many reasons, but the league does not want to see things escalate like the Indiana game. (i.e you leave the bench you are gone)

In any event it worked out to the Blazer's advantage. It fired them up and they came back to win.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Although I agree with everything you said, the league tends to penalize players who escalate events rather than those who commit a foul.
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Which is why I won't be too surprised if LMA and/or Williams get a suspension. Even though Mo started out by trying to create separation between Bogut/Freeland, the scrum eventually pulled him into a more "escalating" role. LMA's charge/shove won't be seen as "peacemaker" in any way, shape, or form.
Of course the league can also take into account history and see that LMA doesn't have a history of this sort of behavior.
 
Didn't read or know the exact rules, but I thought a punch was a "closed fisted swing" ? There was only shoving last night.
 
HCP said:
Didn't read or know the exact rules, but I thought a punch was a "closed fisted swing" ? There was only shoving last night.
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Hey HCP - what was the truck like during the fracas?
 
HCP said:
Didn't read or know the exact rules, but I thought a punch was a "closed fisted swing" ? There was only shoving last night.
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Elbows are just as bad as a closed fist in the nba
 
HCP said:
Didn't read or know the exact rules, but I thought a punch was a "closed fisted swing" ? There was only shoving last night.
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Bogut was out of his mind. Going after Freeland, then Mo. It's clear Mo didn't come in to shove or hit or push Bogut. I can assume MO felt he could get Bogut to back off being that they were teammates, not with the intent to instigate. It's Bogut's reaction that escalated the scrum yet again.

LA's was not a punch. Bogut's elbow is in the same category of a punch, and viewed the same for ejection purposes because he made contact above the shoulders. If they rule differently, then they aren't following the rule as it is written.
 
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"Chris McGowan @blazerschris

Ridiculous. Just ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous."

I'm positive he was talking about ticket prices, the McDonald's promo, and the change in music at the Rose Garden. Or, maybe the officiating. lol
 
If the truck woulda shown better replays, maybe Bogut would have gotten tossed?

#fightinwords
 
You'd have to go back a ways to find when men were men and boys were boys as far as fighting goes in the NBA. The VAST majority of the fights are baseball fights.....lots of thrashing around, but nobody gets hurt. I don't know when the last time was that I saw an NBA fight where three punches landed between two guys.

Even the much heralded Luke Vs. Dawkins NBA Title fight was much ado about nothing. Mostly Luke just letting him know not to mess with his boys.

Go Blazers
 
Strenuus said:
Hey HCP - what was the truck like during the fracas?
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It always gets crazy when this stuff goes down. We have to look at 8 different camera angles to find out what happened and show the refs. Last night we were lucky to have a robo can above the hoop. That angle always is the best.
 
HCP said:
It always gets crazy when this stuff goes down. We have to look at 8 different camera angles to find out what happened and show the refs. Last night we were lucky to have a robo can above the hoop. That angle always is the best.
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I can just imagine being outside the truck and seeing it sway because everyone is running around like a chicken with their head cut off. lmao.
 
oldguy said:
You'd have to go back a ways to find when men were men and boys were boys as far as fighting goes in the NBA. The VAST majority of the fights are baseball fights.....lots of thrashing around, but nobody gets hurt. I don't know when the last time was that I saw an NBA fight where three punches landed between two guys.

Even the much heralded Luke Vs. Dawkins NBA Title fight was much ado about nothing. Mostly Luke just letting him know not to mess with his boys.

Go Blazers
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Exactly, which is why I think all of the squacking about Bogut is so over-blown. He didn't land a punch, his "elbow" might have just as easily been a violent push. People need to get over this non-event.
 
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