Take pity on Dame and trade him

[SlyPokerDog]

I'm pessimistic that we'll get much more of "peak Dame". But probably other teams are, too, and won't offer to trade for him until he's proved he's fully recovered. He's expensive damaged goods at the moment.

Not really sure other teams view him as damaged goods. This was an injury that he has suffered with for years and still played at an extremely high level. Also this is an injury that is not mechanical in nature. By that I mean not a blown knee or torn hamstring, the type of injuries that limit athleticism and career. He right now can pass any team's physical.

 

[Strenuus]

There was no way we could count on getting another player as good as Gerald Wallace in return for trading him. But the organization saw the window for his career wasn't lining up with what they had in place so they rolled the dice on the unknown and made a move for the future.

STOMP

Man, way to make such an accurate comparison to the bullshit that is talking about dame being traded.

Goodness, what were we all thinking?

 

[Strenuus]

I'm pessimistic that we'll get much more of "peak Dame". But probably other teams are, too, and won't offer to trade for him until he's proved he's fully recovered. He's expensive damaged goods at the moment.

I guess you woke up today and said "how much can I be wrong in one post today".

 

[STOMP]

Man, way to make such an accurate comparison to the bullshit that is talking about dame being traded.

Goodness, what were we all thinking?

Same thing the fanboys are always thinking, that Dame is going to be awesome forever and anyone who says otherwise is to be attacked. Reality sucks sometimes, but some can rationally deal with it and others can’t.

STOMP

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Same thing the fanboys are always thinking, that Dame is going to be awesome forever

No one thinks that.

 

[RR7]

There was no way we could count on getting another player as good as Gerald Wallace in return for trading him. But the organization saw the window for his career wasn't lining up with what they had in place so they rolled the dice on the unknown and made a move for the future.

STOMP

Gerald Wallace seems like a solid comparison to Damian lillard.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I guess you woke up today and said "how much can I be wrong in one post today".

You show great insight and everyone respects your posting skills.


There - I topped myself.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Same thing the fanboys are always thinking, that Dame is going to be awesome forever

No one thinks that.

I want to update my response.

Dame will be awesome forever! Not at basketball but as a person he will be awesome forever!

#fanboydog

 

[Pinwheel1]

Gerald Wallace seems like a solid comparison to Damian lillard.

Wallace played great for the Blazers right after the trade. Loved his energy and hustle. Could not wait to get rid of him by the next season.

 

[Phatguysrule]

That's true.

But can we get a combination of players who provide as much or more production than Dame for the $42-49M per year that he commands over the next 3 years (or 50M+ he will command thereafter)?

Unfortunately that's not how winning in the NBA works. Otherwise we'd have been better with, Drew Eubanks, Brandon Williams, and Justise Winslow than we were with Dame or CJ. If that's the case, we should be title contenders by getting Hart back with those guys and Dame.

Great job Cronin!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I apologize to all for using the word "production", given the connotation of statistics that it garners. What I meant was "impact", specifically in terms of wins and losses, also considering factors like defense, efficiency, ball security, offensive gravity, etc. I assumed we all understood that scrubs putting up numbers in the absence of talent isn't in the same realm as legit starters playing in games that actually count, and didn't anticipate the condescension that would come along with not perfectly articulating every minute aspect of my intended point.

My bad.

 

[Strenuus]

I apologize to all for using the word "production", given the connotation of statistics that it garners. What I meant was "impact", specifically in terms of wins and losses, also considering factors like defense, efficiency, ball security, offensive gravity, etc. I assumed we all understood that scrubs putting up numbers in the absence of talent isn't in the same realm as legit starters playing in games that actually count, and didn't anticipate the condescension that would come along with not perfectly articulating every minute aspect of my intended point.

My bad.

This is a masterclass, folks!

 

[Phatguysrule]

I apologize to all for using the word "production", given the connotation of statistics that it garners. What I meant was "impact", specifically in terms of wins and losses, also considering factors like defense, efficiency, ball security, offensive gravity, etc. I assumed we all understood that scrubs putting up numbers in the absence of talent isn't in the same realm as legit starters playing in games that actually count, and didn't anticipate the condescension that would come along with not perfectly articulating every minute aspect of my intended point.

My bad.

Heh heh. Sorry to offend you. That wasn't my intention.

History has shown that you don't get better by trading a star for non stars. The team trading the star gets less value almost every time.

So I still disagree with you. The result of us trading Dame would likely be more losses, not fewer.

 

[wizenheimer]

I apologize to all for using the word "production", given the connotation of statistics that it garners. What I meant was "impact", specifically in terms of wins and losses, also considering factors like defense, efficiency, ball security, offensive gravity, etc. I assumed we all understood that scrubs putting up numbers in the absence of talent isn't in the same realm as legit starters playing in games that actually count, and didn't anticipate the condescension that would come along with not perfectly articulating every minute aspect of my intended point.

My bad.

well, the forum is heavily populated by smart-asses armed with quivers full of snarky arrows, so yeah. Usually, the suggestion is to trade Dame for a "huge haul" without ever saying what that haul would be....unless it's rasta saying trade Dame for Simmons

as far as "legit starters playing in games that actually count", the first question is how many starters are you planning on getting for Dame? Does 2 seem reasonable? How about last season when Powell, Kanter, and RoCo combined for 37 points & 21 rebounds?

a trade of Dame for Powell, RoCo, and Kanter plus a couple of late 1st round picks, one 5 years away, does look like the kinds of trades a lot of teams get for a star

(for example, Houston traded Harden for Oladipo, Dante Exum, Rodions Kurucs, plus a pick swap that wasn't conveyed, a 17th pick, another pick swap that almost certainly won't be conveyed, and a couple more 1sts that may, or may not, be decent picks that would be conveyed 3.5 & 5.5 years after the trade)

it's very likely that a Dame trade, for Portland, would be like trading a dollar for a quarter, 3 dimes, a nickel, and a penny. It is a lot of coins coming back, but it is exchanging quality for quantity and that almost never works out well in the NBA

PG13 (twice), Kawhi, Butler (twice), AD, Harden (twice)....a lot of elite players have been traded in the last 5-6 years and not one of the teams trading the star became better because of the trade, they all got worse. And it's been true for a long time. Denver didn't get better for years after trading Melo; same with Utah and Deron Williams; Orlando and Dwight Howard; Pels and Chris Paul. I fail to see why somehow, the Blazers would be the exception (unless you're Danny Ainge trading with the Nets)

 

[STOMP]

Gerald Wallace seems like a solid comparison to Damian lillard.

Though it was obvious, my point still went over your head. Trading a 30+ year old Gerald Wallace while he still had value was how Portland got Damian Lillard

STOMP

 

[wizenheimer]

Though it was obvious, my point still went over your head. Trading a 30+ year old Gerald Wallace was how Portland got Damian Lillard

STOMP

too bad Billy King isn't a GM any more

 

[STOMP]

his point is always the same fucking thing: trade Dame

Pot / Kettle. Despite the roster being nowhere close to competing, you are always opposed to even the idea of moving on from PDX's soon to be 32 year old superstar.

STOMP

 

[wizenheimer]

Pot / Kettle. You are always opposed.

STOMP

that's on you...propose a Dame trade that actually makes some sense

but to your point...yeah, I'm opposed to trading Dame unless he asks to be traded

 

[STOMP]

that's on you...propose a Dame trade that actually makes some fucking sense

No it's not on me pottymouth. I've only stated I'm open to the possibility (I'd expect a boatload in return) while you throw a tantrum at any suggestion.

STOMP

 

[wizenheimer]

No it's not on me pottymouth. I've only stated I'm open to the possibility (I'd expect a boatload in return) while you throw a tantrum at any suggestion.

STOMP

LOL...you really should be cautious about accusing other posters of tantrums

 

[STOMP]

LOL...you really should be cautious about accusing other posters of tantrums

Oblivious much? You throw a fit at every turn, distorting arguments you claim to disagree with beyond recognition. Every other post is filled with cuss words. Tantrums is exactly how it reads.

STOMP

 

[Ripcity4life77]

Take pity on us and stop threads like this ..... NEXT

but to offer something on this topic -- If the Blazers do not get back into the playoffs next season then I could see serious Dame trade talk BUT -- I DO NOT trust Cronin to get that trade done at ALL

 

[wizenheimer]

Oblivious much? You throw a fit at every turn, distorting arguments you claim to disagree with beyond recognition. Every other post is filled with cuss words. Tantrums is exactly how it reads.

STOMP

you seem to come in angry to a lot of discussions...like this one. I usually don't. I'll snark for sure...you tantrum

 

[PtldPlatypus]

that's on you...propose a Dame trade that actually makes some sense

Dame to Chicago, Lonzo/OG/Willams to Portland, Coby White/our 2023 FRP to Toronto. Saves us and Toronto money, preserves our TPE, gives Simons a backcourt-mate that makes sense, and resets the timeline for contention.

 

[wizenheimer]

Dame to Chicago, Lonzo/OG/Willams to Portland, Coby White/our 2023 FRP to Toronto. Saves us and Toronto money, preserves our TPE, gives Simons a backcourt-mate that makes sense, and resets the timeline for contention.

ok...that trade at least makes a little sense and may be realistic, although I don't think any team will trade a lot for Dame until he shows he's still himself for half a season

I disagree about the timeline for contention because there are not any all-stars coming in from the trade, and the Blazers need a couple to contend

you've also traded for 3 players with extensive injury histories. OG has missed 76 games over the last 3 seasons; Lonzo has never played more than 55 games in a season and for his career has played in 239 games while missing 168. Williams only played in 17 games this season although I'm not sure what his injury was

but that trade looks like what I described: Portland trades a dollar and gets back 2 quarters and a dime. Not even any draft picks

 

[PtldPlatypus]

ok...that trade at least makes a little sense and may be realistic, although I don't think any team will trade a lot for Dame until he shows he's still himself for half a season

I disagree about the timeline for contention because there are not any all-stars coming in from the trade, and the Blazers need a couple to contend

you've also traded for 3 players with extensive injury histories. OG has missed 76 games over the last 3 seasons; Lonzo has never played more than 55 games in a season and for his career has played in 239 games while missing 168. Williams only played in 17 games this season although I'm not sure what his injury was

but that trade looks like what I described: Portland trades a dollar and gets back 2 quarters and a dime. Not even any draft picks

When I say "resets the timeline", I mean that the team clearly wouldn't be expected to contend this next year, because they would be so much younger and would need to gel. The contention window would be pushed a couple years.

I think it's overly simplistic to call Lonzo and OG "quarters" compared to Dame's "dolla", but this kind of thing is always speculative.

But yes, it would be a gamble on health, and on growth and development of youngsters. Whereas staying with Dame is a gamble on his health (as you alluded to in your first paragraph), as well as on his defense, and a tiny backcourt, and his game meshing with Chauncey's coaching.

I guess I see a roster of Lonzo/Ant/OG/Williams/Nurk + Keon/Hart/Nas/#6 pick/TPE/MLE (or something else of that nature after a different Dame trade) as having a lot of pieces with opportunity to grow into a balanced, deep, talented squad like Memphis has, and that being more likely than a Dame/Ant backcourt-centric team being more successful than the Dame/CJ version was.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[Phatguysrule]

Pot / Kettle. Despite the roster being nowhere close to competing, you are always opposed to even the idea of moving on from PDX's soon to be 32 year old superstar.

STOMP

Because moving Dame while he's still good makes us worse.

 

[wizenheimer]

idea: somebody who proposes trading a player with a 13M salary for a player with a 40M salary doesn't know his ass from his elbow

however,

Dame (39.4M)

for

Zion (12.7M) + Valunciunas (14M) + Hayes (5.3M) + Murphy (3M) + Jones (1.7M) + Alvorado (1.5M) + 2022 Lakers pick + 2024 Lakers pick + 2024 Pels pick + 2027 Milwaukee or New Orleans 1st, whichever is higher, is just about salary neutral & something I might consider

 

[STOMP]

Because moving Dame while he's still good makes us worse.

Thats likely true. However, had Dame & the rest of the roster been completely healthy this past year I doubt they could have beat many of the Western playoff teams in a series. Maybe Utah, maybe the Pels, but the better teams would have swept them and thats who they'd have been matched up against. Posters are kidding themselves if they think this roster is anywhere in the vicinity of competing for a championship.

Lillard will be 32 next season, how much longer will he be good? He's had a fabulous career and seemingly has some dominance ahead of him. I get why fans want to see him continue on as a Blazer, I just don't see them rising to contender status in the next year or two unless they make major changes that all turn into gold plus hit on all their picks. Thats extremely unlikely. Going forward with this mix likely means getting unceremoniously bounced in round 1 as Dame's career sunsets.

I root for the team over any player. Season after season they've wasted prime Dame reshuffling their meh mix adding the occasional forward who can't shoot and 6'2 guard who can't defend. I want them to get a GM with some brains and balls to make moves that creates a roster that can compete. Mediocrity as the ceiling just so we can root for a favorite son some more is not a plan I endorse at all.

STOMP