Takeaways From Portland’s 2015 Las Vegas Summer League

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Denver Nuggets rookie point guard Emmanuel Mudiay headlines the second team, which also includes the Pelicans' Larry Drew II, Dwight Powell of theDallas Mavericks, Noah Vonleh of the Portland Trail Blazers and Alan Williams of the Houston Rockets.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13287636/kyle-anderson-san-antonio-spurs-named-summer-league-mvp

 

[Nikolokolus]

But you didn't claim moves that make you contend. We already know that no true amount of moves will make us contenders this season. I took, from what you said, that no "significant player movement" will be made from now till October. Riverman gave you a recent example of a good player that was moved for role players.

If you can't suss out the difference between Ty Lawson's situation and the typical trades that teams make then you're either being deliberately obtuse, or stupid. But then again, what else can I expect from this place where people love to throw out the exception as if it disproves the rule.

What trade for a "significant" player (let's say an All-Star for the sake of argument) do really think could get done between now and the start of training camp for this team, beyond picking up somebody that a team is desperate to get rid of (for good reason); i.e. a player we probably don't want anyway.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Could be...but Ty Lawson is not a bottom feeding pt guard and he is being traded before the deadline. Character flaws and all. Point is, Rockets didn't hesitate.

The Rockets are fucking idiots in this case.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You can go here to check the history of all transactions and trades.

http://espn.go.com/nba/transactions

I went back a few years and there really isn't much activity shortly after FA and the start of the season.

It happens, but is a rarity. I don't see the Blazers being part of a large trade that is a needle mover until after the season begins. It would have already happened.

 

[Blazinaway]

The Rockets are fucking idiots in this case.

the Rockets have a win now window for a few years and they had to gamble as they were behind the leaders in the West, IMO its a gamble/risk worth taking for them, makes no sense for a team like POR to do this

 

[Nikolokolus]

the Rockets have a win now window for a few years and they had to gamble as they were behind the leaders in the West, IMO its a gamble/risk worth taking for them, makes no sense for a team like POR to do this

I'm not even sure it makes sense for the Rockets, but maybe that's because I'm not a Ty Lawson fan?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Daryl Morey is the Trader Bob of today's NBA.

 

[Blazinaway]

I'm not even sure it makes sense for the Rockets, but maybe that's because I'm not a Ty Lawson fan?

they IMO are in a position where they have to try something given the structure of their current team and they have/had very few choices available that could possibly make an impact, this is a desperation move but what other choice did they have?

 

[Pinwheel1]

I think for the most part, getting a player in a trade, will be for a guy who is in the last year of his contract and they just don't think they can re-sign him for a variety of reasons. (Coach doesn't get along with him, can't afford him under the salary cap, too many players at his position, desire to tank (i.e Denver)

Last year we saw Josh Smith, Kanter, Goran Dragic, Mozgov, Waiters, Corey Brewer, and Jeff Green all move for reasonable pieces. Some of those players helped their new team. The odds are never good for any scenario
(Trade or draft) but the possibility of picking up a scoring wing or back up PG is possible.

 

[magnifier661]

If you can't suss out the difference between Ty Lawson's situation and the typical trades that teams make then you're either being deliberately obtuse, or stupid. But then again, what else can I expect from this place where people love to throw out the exception as if it disproves the rule.

What trade for a "significant" player (let's say an All-Star for the sake of argument) do really think could get done between now and the start of training camp for this team, beyond picking up somebody that a team is desperate to get rid of (for good reason); i.e. a player we probably don't want anyway.

The claim was you never remembered trades of this magnitude between July-October. Does this not qualify?

 

[B-Roy]

I'm not even sure it makes sense for the Rockets, but maybe that's because I'm not a Ty Lawson fan?

A few years ago, I remember you saying Lawson was more valuable than LMA.

 

[Hobbesarable]

The claim was you never remembered trades of this magnitude between July-October. Does this not qualify?

I'll bite. Which player would you target, Mags, and which player(s) would you be willing to trade for him?

 

[magnifier661]

I'll bite. Which player would you target, Mags, and which player(s) would you be willing to trade for him?

From now until October or before trade deadline?

If it's now till October, I think we might just make draft pick trades. Although, I could see us making a stab for McLemore.

I'm hoping we get a disgruntled Boogie for "before deadline" trade.

 

[Nikolokolus]

The claim was you never remembered trades of this magnitude between July-October. Does this not qualify?

It qualifies as "something." Based on the current trajectory of Lawson's career I'd say it's more of a fire-sale than fair-value trade. I guess I'd put this in the exception category, but that doesn't invalidate the general rule.

 

[Nikolokolus]

A few years ago, I remember you saying Lawson was more valuable than LMA.

If I said that (and no I can't be bothered to go looking, you're welcome to however) I'd say that just shows how much of a tumble Lawson's stock has taken - The guy's career is a dumpster fire right now.

 

[magnifier661]

It qualifies as "something." Based on the current trajectory of Lawson's career I'd say it's more of a fire-sale than fair-value trade. I guess I'd put this in the exception category, but that doesn't invalidate the general rule.

Sounds fair. I was merely using that one example as the exception. As in, nothing is truly impossible.

I personally think we will be done, with the exception of small pieces, until mid season. That's when I believe we will and should make deals. Who knows, maybe we can pry another idiot GM in giving us their unprotected first rounder again!

 

[Nikolokolus]

Sounds fair. I was merely using that one example as the exception. As in, nothing is truly impossible.

I personally think we will be done, with the exception of small pieces, until mid season. That's when I believe we will and should make deals. Who knows, maybe we can pry another idiot GM in giving us their unprotected first rounder again!

The only thing that made me go all in the first place was @riverman talking about trading for Paul George over the summer for our tablescraps.

 

[magnifier661]

The only thing that made me go all in the first place was @riverman talking about trading for Paul George over the summer for our tablescraps.

Oh lmao! Well come on dude?! It's riverman

 

[riverman]

Oh lmao! Well come on dude?! It's riverman

right...I'll leave you guys to your tanking bliss but @Nikolokolus...I'd ask you refrain from making me the cause of whatever contentious angst you're experiencing. Indiana has basically broken up their core...George snapped his leg in half and hasn't played much in the last season and with Hibbert, Stephenson, West all gone..you can call Meyers and CJ and Kaman table compost but they are role players. In fact you never answered my question and I think it's the first time I've ever asked you one. Name call all you want...but own your own angst. You adamantly stated no team trades before the deadline...that same day someone did. Deal with it. It's offseason, it's a scenario. If you don't want to talk about it, then you don't need to talk about me. I'm no basketball genuis..no fear of that. The question was...would you sell high on our young talent to pair an allstar with Dame...I'm assuming you would not because you want to lose games this season.

 

[magnifier661]

right...I'll leave you guys to your tanking bliss but @Nikolokolus...I'd ask you refrain from making me the cause of whatever contentious angst you're experiencing. Indiana has basically broken up their core...George snapped his leg in half and hasn't played much in the last season and with Hibbert, Stephenson, West all gone..you can call Meyers and CJ and Kaman table compost but they are role players. In fact you never answered my question and I think it's the first time I've ever asked you one. Name call all you want...but own your own angst. You adamantly stated no team trades before the deadline...that same day someone did. Deal with it. It's offseason, it's a scenario. If you don't want to talk about it, then you don't need to talk about me. I'm no basketball genuis..no fear of that. The question was...would you sell high on our young talent to pair an allstar with Dame...I'm assuming you would not because you want to lose games this season.

You shut your mouth! I never condone tanking!!!!

Listen, PG would be a helluva get, but I just don't see it bro. Only way he's out is when Indiana wants him out. He's under contract for a few more years and I doubt Indiana is in any hurry to trade him.

 

[Hobbesarable]

You shut your mouth! I never condone tanking!!!!

Listen, PG would be a helluva get, but I just don't see it bro. Only way he's out is when Indiana wants him out. He's under contract for a few more years and I doubt Indiana is in any hurry to trade him.

There's that and the freak injury with his leg. We had our share of players with horrendous injuries. We don't need that beginning another rebuild.

 

[riverman]

You shut your mouth! I never condone tanking!!!!

Listen, PG would be a helluva get, but I just don't see it bro. Only way he's out is when Indiana wants him out. He's under contract for a few more years and I doubt Indiana is in any hurry to trade him.

I didn't think Lawson would be a Rocket either but if their was an allstar I'd like in Portland, it's Paul George. We have a ton of money and a bevy of young players. Yeah, it's hard to see it ever happening. I didn't expect the Lakers to trade Marc Gasol for Pau Gasol but it's another example of trades that come from nowhere. There's no difference between speculating about Boogie Cousins or Paul George.

 

[magnifier661]

I didn't think Lawson would be a Rocket either but if their was an allstar I'd like in Portland, it's Paul George. We have a ton of money and a bevy of young players. Yeah, it's hard to see it ever happening. I didn't expect the Lakers to trade Marc Gasol for Pau Gasol but it's another example of trades that come from nowhere. There's no difference between speculating about Boogie Cousins or Paul George.

I think the difference with Boogie is he's an asshole and the character issue makes him less valuable. PG only flaw is sleeping with his teammate's women!

 

[Nikolokolus]

right...I'll leave you guys to your tanking bliss but @Nikolokolus...I'd ask you refrain from making me the cause of whatever contentious angst you're experiencing. Indiana has basically broken up their core...George snapped his leg in half and hasn't played much in the last season and with Hibbert, Stephenson, West all gone..you can call Meyers and CJ and Kaman table compost but they are role players. In fact you never answered my question and I think it's the first time I've ever asked you one. Name call all you want...but own your own angst. You adamantly stated no team trades before the deadline...that same day someone did. Deal with it. It's offseason, it's a scenario. If you don't want to talk about it, then you don't need to talk about me. I'm no basketball genuis..no fear of that. The question was...would you sell high on our young talent to pair an allstar with Dame...I'm assuming you would not because you want to lose games this season.

I'm not talking "about you," I tagged you so you'd know I mentioned in you in a post as a common courtesy. Furthermore you're not causing me any "contentious angst," you said some things I thought were a little bit "whaaaaa?!" and like people do on a message board I addressed "wot you sed."

As for "selling high on our young talent," what's so "high" about them? Most of these guys were signed on market value deals on potential alone or in the case of Vonleh traded after an unproductive rookie year. If this is their "high" then they have even less value than you are suggesting in your trade scenarios.

 

[riverman]

I'm not talking "about you," I tagged you so you'd know I mentioned in you in a post as a common courtesy. Furthermore you're not causing me any "contentious angst," you said some things I thought were a little bit "whaaaaa?!" and like people do on a message board I addressed "wot you sed."

As for "selling high on our young talent," what's so "high" about them? Most of these guys were signed on market value deals on potential alone or in the case of Vonleh traded after an unproductive rookie year. If this is their "high" then they have even less value than you are suggesting in your trade scenarios.

Their trade value in the case of CJ, Meyers and Vonleh has never been higher. Indy needs an infusion of young talent. George was seriously injured. Even if you took George and Indy out of the equation, if you moved CJ and Meyers now, they'd have more value than if they were mediocre players come the trade deadline. Indy is not contending anytime soon. Neither are we.

 

[Scalma]

@ShamsCharania: Multiple teams pursuing Suns summer PG Mike James, who's inclined to play one more season in Spain before cap rise and flexibility in 2016.
------

Blazers should go after him. He's a Portland native, still young and his game is kind of like lillards so he could potentially be a nice backup. I know I'd personally rather have him than Frazier.

 

[Scalma]

Another summer league guy I'd look at is Maurice ndour. Not sure what his best position is but he's 6'9, with a huge wingspan who can space the floor and block shots.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

12 PPG, 5.8 APG, 3.5 RPG, 5 TOPG, 38.5% FG, 14.3% 3FG, 8.25 PIE = All Summer League 2nd Team

9.8 PPG, 7.5 APG, 4.2 RPG, 3.8 TOPG, 37.9% FG, 16.7% 3FG, 11.0 PIE = Needs to turn the ball over less? Not listed in top 50 of SL?

Please, don't give me this "eye test" bullshit. Frazier is the Rodney Dangerfield of this year's Summer League. He played well, and should be given props.

 

[Draco]

I would take the 2012/13 LMA, Batum, and Wes over any three players on this roster other than Dame. At that time, Batum was one of the most asked about players GMs wanted to trade for. It was rumored we could have made the trade for CP3, but PA would not include Batum in the trade.

To be fair, compare this Blazers roster to last season TWolves.

The TWolvers were a 40 win team before trading their all star PF KLove. The next season, they only won 16 games, and that was with Wiggins, a healthy #1 draft pick.

The Blazers were a 51 win team last season. However, after losing 4 of their 5 starters, including their all star PF LMA, and several veteran bench players, predicting more than 20 Blazer wins this season is very optimistic.

The only advantage this Blazers roster has over last seasons TWolves is all-star Dame. Other than Dame, a side by side comparison of the two rosters shows a talent level advantage to the TWolves. Both teams are stacked with “potential”. However, the TWolves are ahead of the Blazers developing their potential.

So much undeveloped potential is the real problem for this Blazers roster. Eventually, some of their players will be able to make a positive impact. And eventually, some of them will develop chemistry playing with each other. Eventually, but not this season.

I agree with the first statement about LMA/Wes/Batum; but disagree with the Wolves comparision. The Wolves were building around extremely young players with Wiggins, Lavine, Dieng, testing out Bennett but had major injuries to all of their veterans; Rubio, Martin, and Pekovic.

Yes the Blazers have some new younger players; but outside of Vonleh they aren't near as young as those T-Pups were. Plumlee and CJ were both 4 years college players now entering their third NBA season. Thats 7 years after high school while Wiggins was one year removed. Ed Davis and Aminu will both be starting their 6th NBA season. Meyers and Harkless were young rookies three years ago; now they are entering their 4th seasons on contract years. Allen Crabbe went to three years of college and now is entering his third NBA season.

Kaman had a PER of 17.3, solid defense and is 33 years old. I do think many underestimate Kaman's ability to contribute. He played 1400 quality minutes for us last year; being more effective when rested. If the Blazers are in a couple games chasing wins he's a guy who can make a real difference off the bench. I have similar feelings for Henderson at 27; he can help out and is only two years older than Lillard.

Now if our top three players have major injuries as Minnesota did yes we could be in trouble. That can be said of most teams. But if we are relatively healthy we won't be an epically bad team. Out of the top 10 players on our depth chart we have no rookies and only one second year player in Vonleh. This rebuild is more of a players finishing rookie contracts rebuild instead of a future draft pick and green rookie rebuild.

The Blazers want to do a quick turn around before Damian starts to decline. He is 25 and in two years will be at his peak. Many players; especially guards; start to decline at the age of 28. I have doubts that any draft pick the Blazer get will be used on an actual player to pair with Damian as many fans are expecting; its very likely we flip those as a package for a disgruntled allstar. Neil is acquiring as many assets as he can with the hope that a number of them increase in value. Some of them will be role players fitting Damian's contending timeline; others to bundle for a star in a trade as he Neil did when acquiring CP3.

 

[Draco]

It's not BS. I'm having a hard time seeing where the scoring is going to come from. Teams are going to double team the shit out of Lillard. But here's the deal, if I believe the Blazers are going to struggle to win 20 games and then end up winning 25 games, I'm a happy fan. They exceeded my expectations. If you believe that they'll win 30 games and they only win 25 games you'll be disappointed. If they do win 30 games I'll still be a happier fan than you because they barely met your expectations while blasting past mine.

I'm setting myself up to be a happy fan while you're a 50/50 shot at being bitterly disappointed.

So would you be more happy if you expect them to win 10 games to start every year?

I'd rather be realistic both positively and negatively with my expectations and adjust as the season plays out.