Tanking vs Team/Player Growth and Development

[wizenheimer]

Purgatory doesn't usually have 14 game improvements.

.

LOL at "14 game improvement"...people keep bringing that up; improvement over what? That 14 game improvement is context-free spin because the baseline is a deliberately tanked season. It's a phony gauge

I'll ask again, how many games would last year's team have won if that team would have tried to win every game? 28? 30? 33?

 

[julius]

LOL at "14 game improvement"...people keep bringing that up; improvement over what? That 14 game improvement is context-free spin because the baseline is a deliberately tanked season. It's a phony gauge

I'll ask again, how many games would last year's team have won if that team would have tried to win every game? 28? 30? 33?

I don't know if you could say that last bit, and not have the same thing apply to this years team (it's also an easy cop out for any improvement the team makes any year).

I think that the team got better as a whole, despite the fact that Grant played fewer # of games this year (47 this year, 54 last year), same with Ayton (40 this year and 55 last year). And Shaedon went from playing 32 games to playing 72 games, and his defense and overall game improved immensely (his three point shooting however...).

Given all that, I don't think last years team would've been able to win as many games this year as the current team did, because of the improvement of Shaedon, Scoot and Toumani and the addition of Deni this year.

Last years team had a train wreck of a rookie (Scoot) who improved a ton this year, and not to forget that Simons played in 24 more games this year than last year which helped them improve (or not, depending on if you think he helps). And it's not like Simons was "shut down", he missed like the 18 games to start the season after getting hurt in the 1st game. And it's not like they had a good record even when he was playing (11-35).

The first 19 games he played in, they were 4-15. It's not like they were tanking from the get-go. Last years team was *bad* even when healthy.

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't know if you could say that last bit, and not have the same thing apply to this years team (it's also an easy cop out for any improvement the team makes any year).

I think that the team got better as a whole, despite the fact that Grant played fewer # of games this year (47 this year, 54 last year), same with Ayton (40 this year and 55 last year). And Shaedon went from playing 32 games to playing 72 games, and his defense and overall game improved immensely (his three point shooting however...).

Given all that, I don't think last years team would've been able to win as many games this year as the current team did, because of the improvement of Shaedon, Scoot and Toumani and the addition of Deni this year.

Last years team had a train wreck of a rookie (Scoot) who improved a ton this year, and not to forget that Simons played in 24 more games this year than last year which helped them improve (or not, depending on if you think he helps). And it's not like Simons was "shut down", he missed like the 18 games to start the season after getting hurt in the 1st game. And it's not like they had a good record even when he was playing (11-35).

The first 19 games he played in, they were 4-15. It's not like they were tanking from the get-go. Last years team was *bad* even when healthy.

all of that is reasonable and I do think this year's team is better...for certain. I'm just saying the 14 win improvement is a bad gauge

at the 41 game mark, this year's team was 13-28. Last year's team was 12-29. Only a 1 game difference; but that's about the point in time that last year's team started their swan dive

 

[julius]

all of that is reasonable and I do think this year's team is better...for certain. I'm just saying the 14 win improvement is a bad gauge

at the 41 game mark, this year's team was 13-28. Last year's team was 12-29. Only a 1 game difference; but that's about the point in time that last year's team started their swan dive

Yeah and it was at that point this years team showed improvement and something clicked.

 

[wizenheimer]

Yeah and it was at that point this years team showed improvement and something clicked.

right...because they continued to try and win. Last year's team did exactly the opposite, deliberately

 

[julius]

right...because they continued to try and win. Last year's team did exactly the opposite, deliberately

Because they had better talent. Because the improvement of the team...

 

[wizenheimer]

Because they had better talent. Because the improvement of the team...

again...if all that was true, the better talented team would have had a much better record at the halfway mark, but they didn't

 

[Mediocre Man]

Purgatory doesn't usually have 14 game improvements.

Sacramento went 16 years between playoffs. That's purgatory.

This is Blazer fans being over the top pessimistic because the team to too good to suck.

14 game improvement put us in purgatory.

High draft picks don’t guarantee shit, but it does give you the opportunity to get better quickly. Look at the 2018 draft. It’s not about who they drafted, it’s about who they could have drafted. The opportunity to draft Doncic, JJJ, SGA, Trae Young even, etc. Doncic or SGA completely turns that franchise around

 

[julius]

14 game improvement put us in purgatory.

High draft picks don’t guarantee shit, but it does give you the opportunity to get better quickly. Look at the 2018 draft. It’s not about who they drafted, it’s about who they could have drafted. The opportunity to draft Doncic, JJJ, SGA, Trae Young even, etc. Doncic or SGA completely turns that franchise around

Sounds like maybe being a smart evaluator of talent is just as important as placement in the draft (esp if the draft is loaded). For example, SGA was the 11th pick in the draft, Mo Bamba was 6th. Kevin Knox was 9th.

It also depends on whether or not you make stupid trades (trading Trae Young for Luka for example). And even SGA was traded on draft day for other picks and players that amounted to jack squat.

And it's not like SGA was expected to be as good as he is.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Sounds like maybe being a smart evaluator of talent is just as important as placement in the draft (esp if the draft is loaded). For example, SGA was the 11th pick in the draft, Mo Bamba was 6th. Kevin Knox was 9th.

It also depends on whether or not you make stupid trades (trading Trae Young for Luka for example). And even SGA was traded on draft day for other picks and players that amounted to jack squat.

And it's not like SGA was expected to be as good as he is.

It’s all about the opportunity. That’s why higher draft picks matter. Honking once ended up bad, but we had the opportunity to honk twice when no one else did

 

[Phatguysrule]

Sounds like maybe being a smart evaluator of talent is just as important as placement in the draft

Why not have both? The higher you draft (and the more assets you have) the more opportunity you have to take advantage of your expertise.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Evaluating how much these young players will improve over time is obviously difficult. Otherwise, there would not be so many misses

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Costco should take over the draft, they have a great return policy.

 

[wizenheimer]

Costco should take over the draft, they have a great return policy.

true, but a point guard at Costco is 7'11 and weighs 573 pounds

 

[Mediocre Man]

true, but a point guard at Costco is 7'11 and weighs 573 pounds

I had no idea The HCP was that tall…….or moonlighted at Costco

 

[wizenheimer]

I had no idea The HCP was that tall…….or moonlighted at Costco

I said 7'11, not 4'11

 

[julius]

Why not have both? The higher you draft (and the more assets you have) the more opportunity you have to take advantage of your expertise.

Because if you have one, you tend to not have or need the other

 

[Phatguysrule]

I said 7-11

 

[STOMP]

Addition by subtraction is fine for Grant, as he has a longer contract. Yes, I would take a 2nd.

why would any team give up anything for a 31 year old non-difference making forward making 34M per for the next 3 years? Its a pipe dream to think that there is a market for such a player... I don't get why posters here keep pretending

yes your favorite Blazer podcast probably talks about moving him, but they have to come up with content and they're playing to fan hopes not reality. The milk is on the floor and there is no reversing the contract he signed... accept reality that he's likely to be a Blazer for a few more seasons as no one has a reason to add him. If he's moved for a 2nd, it will be attached to another massively overpriced piece that won't be expiring.

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

Yeah and it was at that point this years team showed improvement and something clicked.

the something was Deni went from the new guy blending in to fuck it I'm tip of the spear

STOMP

 

[riverman]

The trick is to draft well...I think Jokic was picked at 41 and Toumani was around Jabari Walker in the bottom of the draft in the 50's. We have a great draft wiz in Mike Schmidt (sp?). Also expanded our foreign league scouting staff where the future Deni's and Duops are hiding.

 

[Pinwheel1]

the something was Deni went from the new guy blending in to fuck it I'm tip of the spear

STOMP

I agree. I was saying that he is the only player out of those 3 that were mentioned that I would be fine dumping for a 2nd round pick,
because of his contract.

 

[julius]

why would any team give up anything for a 31 year old non-difference making forward making 34M per for the next 3 years? Its a pipe dream to think that there is a market for such a player... I don't get why posters here keep pretending

yes your favorite Blazer podcast probably talks about moving him, but they have to come up with content and they're playing to fan hopes not reality. The milk is on the floor and there is no reversing the contract he signed... accept reality that he's likely to be a Blazer for a few more seasons as no one has a reason to add him. If he's moved for a 2nd, it will be attached to another massively overpriced piece that won't be expiring.

STOMP

The only reasons they'd be able to get rid of Grant is because the cap is going up and his contract is more reasonable than someone elses and that other team is stupid...Because he's on the downside of his career (his shot fell off a cliff this year) and honestly, he hasn't played a full season in 5 seasons, and is a roll player at this point in his career.

Granted, roll players are being paid obscene amounts of money now-a-days, so...