Tanking

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HailBlazers said:
Glad the league is taking action on this. Hopefully they ramp it up.

NBA fines Jazz for violating player participation policy.
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He didn't play against the Blazers as well; neither did Clarkson, Kessler, and Collins. Utah lost that game. 4 nights later. Markannen, Kessler, and Collins played against Minny and the Jazz won. The very next game, all 4 Jazz starters sat and the Jazz lost

Ainge obviously playing Capture the Flagg. He just has to be less blatant in sitting Markkanen as he's the only Jazz player that meets 'star' criteria

OKC is reportedly under investigation for sitting all 5 starters and their 6th man vs Portland. I wonder if their defense will be "we still won"....?
 
JDC said:


I wish the NBA would consider something like this in the future....
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Meh….

The real answer is relegation but they won’t ever do that. The teams are worth too much. But there’s no penalty for being consistently shit.

Really they need to have a penalty for being in the bottom 4 again and again. Basically remove them from consideration of the lottery and they get the 5th pick if you have been bottom 4 for three consecutive years. Kinda like the luxury tax. They have worse penalties if you’re a repeat offender. The lottery needs to be the same way.
 
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Natebishop3 said:
Meh….

The real answer is relegation but they won’t ever do that. The teams are worth too much. But there’s no penalty for being consistently shit.

Really they need to have a penalty for being in the bottom 4 again and again. Basically remove them from consideration of the lottery and they get the 5th pick if you have been bottom 4 for three consecutive years. Kinda like the luxury tax. They have worse penalties if you’re a repeat offender. The lottery needs to be the same way.
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Id be down with something like picks after the first round and teams who were in the bottom 5 for the 3rd year in a row they pick 31 and 32 and everyone "moves up".

Lol it'd never work but it'd be funny.
 
I've never considered tanking a problem. For the most part it's self-correcting with even average management

I suppose they might come up with something to 'punish' chronic abusers after 5 years of tanking, but then, they have to subjectively determine what constitutes tanking and I doubt there a fair formula
 
wizenheimer said:
I've never considered tanking a problem. For the most part it's self-correcting with even average management

I suppose they might come up with something to 'punish' chronic abusers after 5 years of tanking, but then, they have to subjectively determine what constitutes tanking and I doubt there a fair formula
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Agreed. The lottery and losing for half a decade is the only way that non-destination teams can compete with destination teams.

If you do it right and have decent management you will have acquired enough talent to compete with destination teams.
 
HailBlazers said:
I consider that a problem. There should be no incentive to lose.
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I don't disagree. However, I understand why it is there.

What other mechanism would you use to even the field between destination cities and non-destination cities? I would also prefer something that doesn't encourage losing.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't disagree. However, I understand why it is there.

What other mechanism would you use to even the field between destination cities and non-destination cities? I would also prefer something that doesn't encourage losing.
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They need to be more honest about the rubber banding mechanic of the lottery.

Make the lottery odds higher based on how many years it's been since a finals appearance, with odds going increasingly back down each year in a row that you miss the playoffs.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
I don't disagree. However, I understand why it is there.

What other mechanism would you use to even the field between destination cities and non-destination cities? I would also prefer something that doesn't encourage losing.
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No draft picks for destination cities.
 
Gimmicky as fuck but I’d love to see a splashy Dispersal Draft style event every time we get a new CBA. Teams get to pick two players to keep, then get a spot in a fully random zipper draft order and just redraft every player currently in the league until all players have been redrafted. All get signed to the new CBA, even the kept players. Then a month later you have the normal draft.

There are obviously so many bad things about this but with all the NBA players being friends now it seems like a way to keep it kind of lighthearted. Also gambling would love it as a way of keeping different pools of money interested in the sport.
 
Take the 5 worst teams and have a GM knife fight. Last one standing gets the first pick.
 
Everything Beagle said:
Gimmicky as fuck but I’d love to see a splashy Dispersal Draft style event every time we get a new CBA. Teams get to pick two players to keep, then get a spot in a fully random zipper draft order and just redraft every player currently in the league until all players have been redrafted. All get signed to the new CBA, even the kept players. Then a month later you have the normal draft.

There are obviously so many bad things about this but with all the NBA players being friends now it seems like a way to keep it kind of lighthearted. Also gambling would love it as a way of keeping different pools of money interested in the sport.
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I was thinking zero sum. I have played MMOs that have loot rules and when one person spends a bunch of points to buy an item, the points are dispersed to the other people in the group. So if the Spurs got Wemby, those mother fuckers shouldn’t have saved up nearly enough points to have another shot at a number one pick.
 
I've said this before but the answer to tanking is to reverse the lottery order... not the draft order just the lotto. So the team with the best record who doesn't make the playoffs has the best chance at the first pick and being in the top 4, the team with the second best record out of the playoffs has the second best chances and so forth. I don't know if you cut that off at the top three or the top four but after the top 3 or 4 you the order is the same, whoever didn't get into the top 3 or 4 via lotto drafts worst to best picks 4 or 5 through 30.

No more tanking, definitely a reason for all of the teams to fight for wins that would equal better odds at the top four picks.
 
blazerkor said:
I've said this before but the answer to tanking is to reverse the lottery order... not the draft order just the lotto. So the team with the best record who doesn't make the playoffs has the best chance at the first pick and being in the top 4, the team with the second best record out of the playoffs has the second best chances and so forth. I don't know if you cut that off at the top three or the top four but after the top 3 or 4 you the order is the same, whoever didn't get into the top 3 or 4 via lotto drafts worst to best picks 4 or 5 through 30.

No more tanking, definitely a reason for all of the teams to fight for wins that would equal better odds at the top four picks.
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that won't work IMO; and there would still be loads of tanking

You'd have all the organically bad teams that exist every season; only 'now', they'd have no viable path to get better. But you'd have almost all of the play-in teams tanking hard this time of year (and subtly tanking all season) timing their deliberate tanking to try and end up as the 10-14 seed in the lottery. You'd have Sacramento, Dallas, Phoenix, and the Spurs jockeying in the west; and Miami, Orlando, Chicago, Toronto in the east

great....yeah, lets give the Spurs the best odds at landing Flagg

that new system doesn't de-incentivize tanking, it just exchanges 7-10 tankers with bad talent for 7-10 different tankers with better talent

I don't believe tanking is a significant enough problem to need correction. The length of contract guarantees is a bigger issue
 
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More than half the teams in the league make the playoffs. What if the top four spots go to four non-finals playoff teams chosen randomly. After that, no randomness, ranked worst to best record. Perfect tanking will only gets you 5th. In a good draft, all the teams should improve.
 
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Top pick goes to the team with a GM who wins a 3 point contest…….. shit I think Ainge would kill it.
 
I love all of the engagement in this conversation, but I don't think any of these suggestions are as good as (let alone better than) the current system.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I love all of the engagement in this conversation, but I don't think any of these suggestions are as good as (let alone better than) the current system.
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I think there has to be some kind of penalty for losing year after year after year.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I think there has to be some kind of penalty for losing year after year after year.
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Maybe the tax penalty distribution gets reduced for your team every year you're in the lottery?

Or maybe if you lose too much for too long your owner has to sell the team?
 
Phatguysrule said:
I love all of the engagement in this conversation, but I don't think any of these suggestions are as good as (let alone better than) the current system.
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The current system isn’t good at all, but most NBA managers are morons. Frankly the league isn’t very smart when it comes to strategy.

The only plus for the current system is that it is very easy for the NBA to reward and punish franchises via rigging the lottery.
 
Everything Beagle said:
The current system isn’t good at all, but most NBA managers are morons. Frankly the league isn’t very smart when it comes to strategy.

The only plus for the current system is that it is very easy for the NBA to reward and punish franchises via rigging the lottery.
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I don't disagree. It's just tough to imagine a solution that would improve on the current system as well as prevent the ability of the league to put their finger on the scale.
 
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