Tax revenue as a percentage of GDP

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maxiep

RIP Dr. Jack
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I often bring up "Hauser's Law" in this forum. Here's an op-ed from him that explains the relationship between tax revenue and gross domestic product better than I could.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...209741952.html?mod=WSJ_article_MoreIn_Opinion

NOVEMBER 26, 2010.

There's No Escaping Hauser's Law

Tax revenues as a share of GDP have averaged just under 19%, whether tax rates are cut or raised. Better to cut rates and get 19% of a larger pie.

By W. KURT HAUSER

Even amoebas learn by trial and error, but some economists and politicians do not. The Obama administration's budget projections claim that raising taxes on the top 2% of taxpayers, those individuals earning more than $200,000 and couples earning $250,000 or more, will increase revenues to the U.S. Treasury. The empirical evidence suggests otherwise. None of the personal income tax or capital gains tax increases enacted in the post-World War II period has raised the projected tax revenues.

Over the past six decades, tax revenues as a percentage of GDP have averaged just under 19% regardless of the top marginal personal income tax rate. The top marginal rate has been as high as 92% (1952-53) and as low as 28% (1988-90). This observation was first reported in an op-ed I wrote for this newspaper in March 1993. A wit later dubbed this "Hauser's Law."

Over this period there have been more than 30 major changes in the tax code including personal income tax rates, corporate tax rates, capital gains taxes, dividend taxes, investment tax credits, depreciation schedules, Social Security taxes, and the number of tax brackets among others. Yet during this period, federal government tax collections as a share of GDP have moved within a narrow band of just under 19% of GDP.

Why? Higher taxes discourage the "animal spirits" of entrepreneurship. When tax rates are raised, taxpayers are encouraged to shift, hide and underreport income. Taxpayers divert their effort from pro-growth productive investments to seeking tax shelters, tax havens and tax exempt investments. This behavior tends to dampen economic growth and job creation. Lower taxes increase the incentives to work, produce, save and invest, thereby encouraging capital formation and jobs. Taxpayers have less incentive to shelter and shift income.

On average, GDP has grown at a faster pace in the several quarters after taxes are lowered than the several quarters before the tax reductions. In the six quarters prior to the May 2003 Bush tax cuts, GDP grew at an average annual quarterly rate of 1.8%. In the six quarters following the tax cuts, GDP grew at an average annual quarterly rate of 3.8%. Yet taxes as a share of GDP have remained within a relatively narrow range as a percent of GDP in the entire post-World War II period.

This is explained once the relationship between taxes and GDP growth is understood. Under a tax increase, the denominator, GDP, will rise less than forecast, while the numerator, tax revenues, will advance less than anticipated. Therefore the quotient, the percentage of GDP collected in taxes, will remain the same. Nineteen percent of a larger GDP is preferable to 19% of a smaller GDP.

The target of the Obama tax hike is the top 2% of taxpayers, but the burden of the tax is likely to fall on the remaining 98%. The top 2% of income earners do not live in a vacuum. Our economy and society are interwoven. Employees and employers, providers and users, consumers and savers and investors are all interdependent. The wealthy have the highest propensity to save and invest. The wealthy also run the lion's share of small businesses. Most small business owners pay taxes at the personal income tax rate. Small businesses have created two-thirds of all new jobs during the past four decades and virtually all of the net new jobs from the early 1980s through the end of 2007, the beginning of the past recession.

In other words, the Obama tax increases are targeted at those who are largely responsible for capital formation. Capital formation is the life blood for job creation. As jobs are created, more people pay income, Social Security and Medicare taxes. As the economy grows, corporate income tax receipts grow. Rising corporate profits provide an underpinning to the stock market, so capital gain and dividend tax collections increase. A pro-growth, low marginal personal tax rate stimulates capital formation and GDP, which triggers a higher level of tax receipts for the other sources of government revenue.

It is generally accepted that if one taxes something, one gets less of it and if something is subsidized one gets more of it. The Obama administration is also proposing an increase in taxes on capital itself in the form of higher capital gains and dividend taxes.

The historical record is clear on this as well. In 1987 the capital gains tax rate was raised to 28% from 20%. Capital gains realizations as a percent of GDP fell to 3% in 1987 from about 8% of GDP in 1986 and continued to fall to below 2% over the next several years. Conversely, the capital gains tax rate was cut in 1997, to 20% from 28% and, at the time, the forecasts were for lower revenues over the ensuing two years.

In fact, tax revenues were about $84 billion above forecast and above the level collected at the higher and earlier rate. Similarly, the capital gains tax rate was cut in 2003 to 15% from 20%. The lower rate produced a higher level of revenue than in 2002 and twice the forecasted revenue in 2005.

The Obama administration and members of Congress should study the record on how the economy reacts to changes in the tax code. The president's economic team has launched a three-pronged attack on capital: They are attacking the income group that is the most responsible for capital formation and jobs in the private sector, and then attacking the investment returns on capital formation in the form of dividends and capital gains. The out-year projections on revenues from these tax increases will prove to be phantom.

Mr. Hauser is chairman emeritus of the Hoover Institution at Stanford University and chairman of Wentworth, Hauser & Violich, a San Francisco investment management firm. He is the author of "Taxation and Economic Performance" (Hoover Press, 1996).
 
Taking tiny snapshots here and there in time and using them to "prove" such a dubious claim of effect proves nothing.

Bottom line is people with more money than they need will invest it unless they are absolute morons, and investments off every kind end up creating jobs.

What we DO know is that whenever the uber-wealthy have been given huge tax cuts (Reagan and Bush eras) our economy stumbles badly, unemployment rises disastrously, and 95% of America suffers.
 
The wealthiest in american have increased their wealth of the last 10 years. Why do they need tax cuts?
 
I'm fine with throwing the book at the white collar criminals. However, the idea of taxing the rich "more" misses the point of the OP article.

Lower tax rates on the rich results in a bigger GDP. Taxes are effectively a flat 19% tax on whatever GDP is. If the govt. is to have more revenues, grow GDP. But like the taxes being a flat 19% of GDP, the richest X% are going to make a good chunk of the income. Consider the math:

If GDP is $100 and the rich get 50% of it, there's $50 left for everyone else. If GDP is $1000 and the rich get 50% of it, there's $500 left for everyone else. That $500 divided among the rest of us sure makes it easier to be middle class than splitting $50 among us.
 
The wealthiest in american have increased their wealth of the last 10 years. Why do they need tax cuts?

Who is talking about cutting their taxes? Democrats want to raise their taxes from their existing level.
 
The point is that we should focus on raising GDP rather than focusing on tax rates. According to Hauser, no matter the tax rate we've tried (and clearly there's a collar on the rates), the government takes 19% of GDP. In other words, tax rates don't really matter. So, why shouldn't we lower taxes for everyone who pays taxes?
 
Who is talking about cutting their taxes? Democrats want to raise their taxes from their existing level.

They want to let the cuts EXPIRE on them, and it only goes up a few percentage points. LOL at the end of the world.

Expire =/= raise unless you are seriously into republican talking points.

Isn't it like 37% to 39%?
 
The point is that we should focus on raising GDP rather than focusing on tax rates. According to Hauser, no matter the tax rate we've tried (and clearly there's a collar on the rates), the government takes 19% of GDP. In other words, tax rates don't really matter. So, why shouldn't we lower taxes for everyone who pays taxes?

are we not already in huge amounts of debt? The first thing people learn when investing is to pay off any debt you have, right?
 
They want to let the cuts EXPIRE on them, and it only goes up a few percentage points. LOL at the end of the world.

Expire =/= raise unless you are seriously into republican talking points.

Isn't it like 37% to 39%?

lol at somebody always thinking it is fine to raise somebody ELSE'S taxes. You really should be the one to decide when somebody has enough wealth. We could give you some sort of title.
 
It has always killed me that if you tax a person making 10K a year 19% and someone making 1M a year 19%, it will be the guy making 10K a year complaining.

$1900 vs $190,000

Thanks for your contribution $1900 guy. Is there anything else the government can do for you?
 
lol. What?

No wonder we hardly ever agree on financial issues.

Johnny has a debt of $10k. He now has a good job, and decided he would take out $500 a pay check for his retirement, and only pays the minimum on his $10k debt. Is this a bad idea?

edit: the minimum is the interest payment
 
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Can we agree the government needs to balance the budget?

Maxiep's reason for posting was to show the relative meaninglessness of tax rate in relation to actual revenue collected. This thread has nothing to do with how the government spends it afterwards.
 
Johnny has a debt of $10k. He now has a good job, and decided he would take out $500 a pay check for his retirement, and only pays the minimum on his $10k debt. Is this a bad idea?

It all depends on the incentives for retirement saving and the cost of only making minimum payments on his 10k loan.
 
It all depends on the incentives for retirement saving and the cost of only making minimum payments on his 10k loan.

Depends on what the $10K loan was used for. If it bought you a house and you live in it and your payment is $100/month, you probably don't care so much about paying it off. If you bought a computer (kick ass one!) and use it to earn your living, the interest is a cost of doing business.

&c
 
Can we agree the government needs to balance the budget?

No.

If the govt. wants to build a bridge, it should issue bonds to build it and pay those off over time.
 
Johnny has a debt of $10k. He now has a good job, and decided he would take out $500 a pay check for his retirement, and only pays the minimum on his $10k debt. Is this a bad idea?

Big time facepalms from me. Ouch.
 
Did my question deserve a snarky sarcastic response?

Kind of.

The point is that you always want to argue about the "rich" being too "rich" etc. But the idea that you always want to pay off debt shows that you have little insight into investing and leveraging, therefore making your opinion regarding the "rich" kind of invalid.
 
Depends on what the $10K loan was used for. If it bought you a house and you live in it and your payment is $100/month, you probably don't care so much about paying it off. If you bought a computer (kick ass one!) and use it to earn your living, the interest is a cost of doing business.

&c



It would not matter what it was used for. The bottom line is cost/benefit.
 
It would not matter what it was used for. The bottom line is cost/benefit.

Of course it matters what the money you borrow is used for. Companies borrow all the time to purchase new plants and equipment. With the intent to make a lot more in sales than the equipment loan payments cost, of course.

If you had $100K in the bank, would you think it better to buy one $100K house for cash, or 10x $100K houses with $10K down each?

On the other hand, if you run up your credit card going to the movies, all you have is a debt payment and nothing to show for it.
 
Of course it matters what the money you borrow is used for. Companies borrow all the time to purchase new plants and equipment. With the intent to make a lot more in sales than the equipment loan payments cost, of course.

If you had $100K in the bank, would you think it better to buy one $100K house for cash, or 10x $100K houses with $10K down each?

On the other hand, if you run up your credit card going to the movies, all you have is a debt payment and nothing to show for it.

In each case you have to weigh cost/benefit.

I will try to fit the first given scenario that Johnny has 10k in debt. Should he pay $500 into a retirement fund (investing for the future) or pay off debt (decreasing future payments).

1. Say that your scenario is a sole proprietorship and it is the owners goal to pay for a luxury car. Under your scenario, you are saying that he can never have that car because the money is better spent on the business. That would not be true if the cost of the car is going to be more in the future and the rate of return for making new factories is lower.

So a hypothetical cost/benefit could look like this:

Buy a car now: 10k. A 10K loan would be taken out against the business and paid at an 8% rate.

Wait one year to buy car: 20K. A 20k loan taken out against the business at an 10% rate.

For the additional factories to pay off, they must make the difference between the two opportunities. Buying a car now gives you one more year of use out of the car, locks you into a lower rate, and costs 9200 less initially compared to waiting a year. It is not a given that the factories make this profit.

2. I think anyone that bought a second home during the housing boom can identify with this one. If you bought before the boom, the 100k would have been better spent paying 10 10k downpayments. If you bought at the peak, it would have been better to pay 100k on one house.

3. Taking on credit card debt would make sense in this scenario if it took the place of another destructive behavior. Say that it is likely that a person is going to spend even more money drinking if they are not occupied. There are other cheaper ways that they could eliminate drinking, but the $8 on a movie with 18% interest is better than $100 on drinks, $1k on a DUI, and loss of job.
 
Can we agree the government needs to balance the budget?

Absolutely. Which would pay off the debt faster (assuming dramatically limiting the size of government): 19% of a $13T pie or 19% of a $16T pie? In other words, focus on the size of the pie and not how it's sliced.
 
In each case you have to weigh cost/benefit.

I will try to fit the first given scenario that Johnny has 10k in debt. Should he pay $500 into a retirement fund (investing for the future) or pay off debt (decreasing future payments).

1. Say that your scenario is a sole proprietorship and it is the owners goal to pay for a luxury car. Under your scenario, you are saying that he can never have that car because the money is better spent on the business. That would not be true if the cost of the car is going to be more in the future and the rate of return for making new factories is lower.

So a hypothetical cost/benefit could look like this:

Buy a car now: 10k. A 10K loan would be taken out against the business and paid at an 8% rate.

Wait one year to buy car: 20K. A 20k loan taken out against the business at an 10% rate.

For the additional factories to pay off, they must make the difference between the two opportunities. Buying a car now gives you one more year of use out of the car, locks you into a lower rate, and costs 9200 less initially compared to waiting a year. It is not a given that the factories make this profit.

2. I think anyone that bought a second home during the housing boom can identify with this one. If you bought before the boom, the 100k would have been better spent paying 10 10k downpayments. If you bought at the peak, it would have been better to pay 100k on one house.

3. Taking on credit card debt would make sense in this scenario if it took the place of another destructive behavior. Say that it is likely that a person is going to spend even more money drinking if they are not occupied. There are other cheaper ways that they could eliminate drinking, but the $8 on a movie with 18% interest is better than $100 on drinks, $1k on a DUI, and loss of job.

You miss the point about leverage.

Buy a $100K house for $100K cash. It goes up 1% in value, you've made $1K on your $100K investment, or 1%.

Buy a $100K house for $10K down. It goes up 1% in value, you've made $1K on your $10K investment, or $10%. You borrowed the money at 5%, so you profit.

Carry on.
 
2. I think anyone that bought a second home during the housing boom can identify with this one. If you bought before the boom, the 100k would have been better spent paying 10 10k downpayments. If you bought at the peak, it would have been better to pay 100k on one house.

Re-read that. I did not miss the point about leverage. It assumes that you have to live in one of the houses. I said the exact same thing with assessing the situation before the boom that buying multiple houses was better.

Not for sure what that carry on business is about.
 
Re-read that. I did not miss the point about leverage. It assumes that you have to live in one of the houses. I said the exact same thing with assessing the situation before the boom that buying multiple houses was better.

Not for sure what that carry on business is about.

Johnny and his $10K in debt has 9 houses paying him rent income, enough positive cash flow to pay his credit card payment. Or he could have 8 houses.
 

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