Taxes- What's "Fair"?

[Masbee]

I was thinking about this in a slightly different context recently: college towns.

College students get to vote where they go to school, quite often, and in towns that have large student bodies and/or smaller non-college communities, a population that turns over ever four or five years could establish laws and ordinances that hurt the people that are permanent residents. It's a pretty significant moral hazard that I'm surprised isn't a bigger deal than it is.

I think that there's a similar moral hazard when people vote who have no investment in the larger system and income taxes, in particular. If there is no reason for someone to fear increased taxes (because they won't pay them), then that person will very often vote in favor of them... or if a person gets benefits with no costs, it's unlikely they will vote against their own interests.

I don't know what the answer is.

Ed O.

There is no answer or "solution".

It is one of the key flaws of democracy.

It is why this country was founded as a republic and not a democracy.

Property rights, rule of law, strong minority rights, senates with disproportionate representation, etc. are all there to slow or prevent tryanny of the majority.

 

[huevonkiller]

Fair is whatever the bottom 50% who don't pay shit in taxes and love free stuff, say it is.

 

[huevonkiller]

I was thinking about this in a slightly different context recently: college towns.

College students get to vote where they go to school, quite often, and in towns that have large student bodies and/or smaller non-college communities, a population that turns over ever four or five years could establish laws and ordinances that hurt the people that are permanent residents. It's a pretty significant moral hazard that I'm surprised isn't a bigger deal than it is.

I think that there's a similar moral hazard when people vote who have no investment in the larger system and income taxes, in particular. If there is no reason for someone to fear increased taxes (because they won't pay them), then that person will very often vote in favor of them... or if a person gets benefits with no costs, it's unlikely they will vote against their own interests.

I don't know what the answer is.

Ed O.

An astute analysis.

This is essentially why we have a constitution, instead of a savage direct democracy where the majority faction is like a brutal tyranny.

Unfortunately in welfare states like Greece (and soon the US), nobody wants to cut anything even when we go broke.

 

[barfo]

Fair is whatever the bottom 50% who don't pay shit in taxes and love free stuff, say it is.

Those damn poor people, they control EVERYTHING!

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

There is no answer or "solution".

It is one of the key flaws of democracy.

It is why this country was founded as a republic and not a democracy.

Property rights, rule of law, strong minority rights, senates with disproportionate representation, etc. are all there to slow or prevent tryanny of the majority.

Re'd. Great post.

We have many people who pay no taxes- both wealthy & poor. We have many people who don't vote. While the majority pretty much gets their way, we have other checks & balances that are to keep some sort of general protection for the minority.

But income taxes have become so unrepresentative of the people. Like Denny pointed out, if you have skin in the game you have to pay your share- no matter how small or large it may be. But decades of loopholes, liberal policies and conservative protections have rendered the system nearly useless. And this is why I don't care for any of the candidates for President (including Obama). All they seek it to protect the status quo of a deeply damaged system that is used to reward & punish citizens more so than fairly collect taxes.

At some point in time we need a few politicians decision makers to think outside the partisan box.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57...-you-where-your-tax-dollars-go/?tag=cnetRiver

 

[maxiep]

I'm fine with a progressive tax system, but like Denny wrote, EVERYONE has to have skin in the game. If my taxes have to go up, then everyone's taxes need to increase as well. I don't care if it's a dollar a year, everyone needs to share in the pain.

 

[Denny Crane]

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville

 

[Eastoff]

[video]


Oh no! WHAT DID THEY DO TO THE FOOTAGE?!

 

[Denny Crane]

[video]


Oh no! WHAT DID THEY DO TO THE FOOTAGE?!

He's not talking about pay a %, he's talking about the rich paying $0 and the bus driver even paying $1.

Way out of context here.

Before Reagan's tax reforms, depreciation on investment real estate could trivially wipe out all a rich person's taxable income

 

[huevonkiller]

Those damn poor people, they control EVERYTHING!

barfo

Wow you are really ignorant.


Yes it is called Latin America genius, LOL. Direct democracy can easily become savage.

Populism is disgusting.

 

[huevonkiller]

I'm fine with a progressive tax system, but like Denny wrote, EVERYONE has to have skin in the game. If my taxes have to go up, then everyone's taxes need to increase as well. I don't care if it's a dollar a year, everyone needs to share in the pain.

I'm absolutely not ok with it, I have yet to hear a cogent argument for it. Especially considering the Laffer curve.

 

[huevonkiller]

“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville

And don't forget Voltaire either.

 

[barfo]

Wow you are really ignorant.


Yes it is called Latin America genius, LOL.

No, it is called America, because we don't speak Latin here. Now who's ignorant, hmm?

Direct democracy can easily become savage.

Populism is disgusting.

If only we had a king! A horse, a horse, my horse for a kingdom!

barfo

 

[huevonkiller]

No, it is called America, because we don't speak Latin here. Now who's ignorant, hmm?



If only we had a king! A horse, a horse, my horse for a kingdom!

barfo

No it is called Latin America, because there are Islands that are not part of the Americas. Lmfao.

Weak, get a map. Populism has nothing to do with Kings.

 

[Denny Crane]

.muesiloc eht ni snoil eht ot def steg ohw ediced ot steg ohw ekil ;ytirojam eht fo ynnaryt eht otni nrut ylisae nac ycarcomed eruP .thgir s'eh ,ofrab

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

.muesiloc eht ni snoil eht ot def steg ohw ediced ot steg ohw ekil ;ytirojam eht fo ynnaryt eht otni nrut ylisae nac ycarcomed eruP .thgir s'eh ,ofrab

ho rehtorb.

 

[blazerboy30]

america needs a middle class for revenue....and taxing the poor and asking them to make up for it is so fucking stupid its not even worth talking about

So now the "middle class" and the "poor" are the same thing, or are you just creating a strawman?

 

[jlprk]

The problem is that rich people pay too little, the middle class pays too little, poor people pay too little, and I feel taken advantage of.

 

[blazerboy30]

The problem is that rich people pay too little, the middle class pays too little, poor people pay too little, and I feel taken advantage of.

You probably are taken advantage of, but it has nothing to do with taxes.