Tell me one more time

[Yankeefan5545]

just so I'll understand. Your pitching staff went south in Boston and you were swept. Still you have a chance so you play that team that you've won 13/16 against, should be cake. The old man of the staff pitches a game givin up only one run, but your offense has failed again. Enter bull pen who promptly gives up another run and your offense still fails. Then your pen almost blows it again but Lind got greedy. Your offense punked and wimped in the last two. Is this what happened tonight. I'd better see some accountability for this teams failures in the off season.

 

[Majorball]

That what we all want, accountability from someone other than players.

 

[Rick2583]

That what we all want, accountability from someone other than players.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that.

 

[RustySpan]

I can't blame players for quitting, the Boston series was a bloodbath, and more injuries to boot, it's over, they can play this season out without a win and I don't care, see ya next year.

 

[rickysapreal]

I can't blame players for quitting, the Boston series was a bloodbath, and more injuries to boot, it's over, they can play this season out without a win and I don't care, see ya next year.

you cant blame the players for quitting? do their paychecks stop coming because they got their feelings hurt in boston? gimme a break!!!

 

[RustySpan]

I know it sounds lame, but the team gave it all they had, just not enough pitching and too many injuries, it's over, they'll play for the pay, but doubt they show any urgency or play hard like they have, and again, I don't blame them.

 

[Rick2583]

I know it sounds lame, but the team gave it all they had, just not enough pitching and too many injuries, it's over, they'll play for the pay, but doubt they show any urgency or play hard like they have, and again, I don't blame them.

Not even Cano for his slow-mo trots to 1st?. Or CC's under achiving all year?. Or Hughes & Joba sucking all year?. Or Nunez STILL not learning the infield after what 4 years now?. You mean those players?.

 

[Messiah717]

I don't think CC went out there this year saying let me suck. Nunez was always overrated. Never got the love affair.

 

[Rick2583]

I don't think CC went out there this year saying let me suck. Nunez was always overrated. Never got the love affair.

Oh I'm sure he didn't MEAN to but the point remains that he did indeed suck. My point to Rusty was just that there's enough blame to go around & that means the players also.

 

[rickysapreal]

who in their right mind would blame cano???? hes 5th in the american league in ops and almost 100 points better than the next best 2nd baseman!!

 

[Majorball]

who in their right mind would blame cano???? hes 5th in the american league in ops and almost 100 points better than the next best 2nd baseman!!

I don't think anyone is blaming Cano, Criticizing him for his on field lack of hustle or discussing if we want to pay 200 million has been the Cano topics this year.

 

[Rick2583]

who in their right mind would blame cano???? hes 5th in the american league in ops and almost 100 points better than the next best 2nd baseman!!

ricky I'm looking beyond the #s he put up this year. And I can't help but think how much better he could be if he just gave a rats ass. I mean to watch him out of the box you'd think that no infielder EVER booted a ball or made a wild throw to first. So why bother to run hard on a ground ball?

 

[yankeesince59]

...I'll trade out Cano's occasional lapses in all out hustle for his offensive and defensive production any day.

...the Cano hate and "lazy" references are really over the top and he's by no means the only big name player who doesn't always run all out to 1B.

 

[Rick2583]

...I'll trade out Cano's occasional lapses in all out hustle for his offensive and defensive production any day.

...the Cano hate and "lazy" references are really over the top and he's by no means the only big name player who doesn't always run all out to 1B.

If by occasional you mean 95% of the time then okay BUT.........his laziness is not just affecting him. With a guy on first base if he hits a ground ball its a certain double play because he doesn't run hard enough to try & beat it out. Same scenario with him on first, he doesn't hustle to second to try & break up a DP. His non-chalant bullshit who gives a shit approach to the game is hurting the team.

 

[Majorball]

If by occasional you mean 95% of the time then okay BUT.........his laziness is not just affecting him. With a guy on first base if he hits a ground ball its a certain double play because he doesn't run hard enough to try & beat it out. Same scenario with him on first, he doesn't hustle to second to try & break up a DP. His non-chalant bullshit who gives a shit approach to the game is hurting the team.

And although as 59 stated, every GM wants a Cano at 2B, however he shows no leadership skills, and if you were asking me the difference between say Pedrosia and Cano is that you only have to wash his uniforms 10 times a year. "He's a lollygagger"

 

[yankeesince59]

If by occasional you mean 95% of the time then okay BUT.........his laziness is not just affecting him. With a guy on first base if he hits a ground ball its a certain double play because he doesn't run hard enough to try & beat it out. Same scenario with him on first, he doesn't hustle to second to try & break up a DP. His non-chalant bullshit who gives a shit approach to the game is hurting the team.

...95%?...lol...exaggerate much?...what 2Bman do you really think the Yanx should sign instead of Cano?


...Cano, even with his perceived "laziness" by some, is better than any other 2Bman in the game, period.

 

[Rick2583]

...95%?...lol...exaggerate much?...what 2Bman do you really think the Yanx should sign instead of Cano?


...Cano, even with his perceived "laziness" by some, is better than any other 2Bman in the game, period.

Again my friend I'm not questioning his defense or his numbers which are very impressive & consistant year in & year out. I'm questioning how much better he could be if he just gave a shit. And how much more his TEAM would benifit if he could become more of a TEAM player & do the little things that would make him an even better player.

Honestly you can't tell me that you're okay when he skips to 1st base on 95% of the ground balls he hits. Or when he's on 1st with less then 2 outs & a ball is grounded to short or 3rd & the ball is thrown to 2nd, you don't even see him in the picture (anywhere near the 2nd base bag) while the double play is completed. He just gives up like he's afraid to get his uniform dirty. You CAN'T be okay with that.

I mean hell even the announcers questioned him AGAIN when he literally gave up on a ground ball last night when he stopped a 1/3rd of the way up the line & watched the play get completed. Can you imagine what guys like Weaver & Martin would have done with this prima-donna. Yes his offensive & defense is 2nd to none (no pun intended) but his attitude & approach as one of the leaders on this team just flat out SUCKS!.

I CANNOT make it any clearer then that.

 

[yankeesince59]

...again rick, you're exaggerating like hell. "95%"?...please.

...Does he always run hard to 1B?...no, but neither does Pujols and a lot of players. The fact is that Cano is not very fast and never has been. Do I wish he were faster?...yes. But now that he's on the other side of 30, would I rather see him pulling hammies just to appease the people who claim he's "lazy"?...no.

...again, I'll gladly take another 6-7 years of Cano as he is. Or would you prefer that the Yanx have a 2Bman who hit's .250 with a .650 OPS with mediocre defense, but hey, "he always runs hard to 1B" ?...hope not.

...I'll take 7 more Robbie Cano's and his "attitude" on my team any day. You can have the marginal players who run faster but still have no talent.

...I CANNOT make it any clearer.

 

[Majorball]

...again rick, you're exaggerating like hell. "95%"?...please.

...Does he always run hard to 1B?...no, but neither does Pujols and a lot of players. The fact is that Cano is not very fast and never has been. Do I wish he were faster?...yes. But now that he's on the other side of 30, would I rather see him pulling hammies just to appease the people who claim he's "lazy"?...no.

...again, I'll gladly take another 6-7 years of Cano as he is. Or would you prefer that the Yanx have a 2Bman who hit's .250 with a .650 OPS with mediocre defense, but hey, "he always runs hard to 1B" ?...hope not.

...I'll take 7 more Robbie Cano's and his "attitude" on my team any day. You can have the marginal players who run faster but still have no talent.

...I CANNOT make it any clearer.

What Rick is saying and I agree with is got nothing to do with the numbers. It's got to do with between the ears, the image he projects to his fellow teammates and the affect he will have on what is hoped to be a younger group in the years ahead. On a veteran team, his bullshit Caribbean ways may be pushed aside. But his will to win, busting it down the line, getting dirty, being a leader, is all absent in his game. In a year when injuries have robbed the roster of the veteran presence of guys like Jeter, Tex, Grandy, who are all team leaders on the field and in the clubhouse, Cano has responded with a tremendous year statistically speaking, but as an example from a leadership position he has failed miserably, unless you vote for Miss Congeniality because he would win that. So in closing, his stats tell the truth, he is the best second baseman in baseball, the other truth is he is not a leader, and if your not busting it on every play, potentially a bad example for young guys coming up. In a old school baseball world, unacceptable by anyone's standards.

 

[yankeesince59]

...he's not a leader?...so?

...you can keep your "leaders" for whatever they're worth. I'll take the guys with talent any day. And you can't separate his numbers from his perceived lack of hustle, it's a package deal. Not everyone is Derek Jeter.

...again, this Cano hate is over the top. It's almost like complaining because your brand new Lamborghini will only go 180 MPH instead of 190 MPH.

 

[Rick2583]

...again rick, you're exaggerating like hell. "95%"?...please.

...Does he always run hard to 1B?...no, but neither does Pujols and a lot of players. The fact is that Cano is not very fast and never has been. Do I wish he were faster?...yes. But now that he's on the other side of 30, would I rather see him pulling hammies just to appease the people who claim he's "lazy"?...no.

...again, I'll gladly take another 6-7 years of Cano as he is. Or would you prefer that the Yanx have a 2Bman who hit's .250 with a .650 OPS with mediocre defense, but hey, "he always runs hard to 1B" ?...hope not.

...I'll take 7 more Robbie Cano's and his "attitude" on my team any day. You can have the marginal players who run faster but still have no talent.

...I CANNOT make it any clearer.

Okay 90% & its not a matter of being fast or slow, jogging is jogging regardless of what kind of speed you posses & he JOGS. Not because he's not a fast runner he jogs because he THINKS it's going to be an out anyway so why bother.

And no I don't expect him to hustle more like 40 year olds Ichiro & Jeter just to appease the people who claim he's lazy,I expect him to hustle because of his T E A M. Don't do it for the guy in the box seats behind home plate. Or for the guys sitting down the line or up in the nose bleed sections even though they're paying good money to see well paid athletes give there ALL. No Robinson how about you just do it for.......the T E A M.

And fearing a player is going to pull a hammer just because he hit 31, I'll use your phase, exaggerate much. C.mon you're old school just like me, did you ever see Mays, Aaron, Clemente & a crap load of other great players just J O G to the bases? Hell Mays, like Jeter & Ichiro in there late 30 were still busting it. Sorry worrying about a possible pulled hammy at 31 is not only weak but lame.

But what the hell its obvious were not going to agree on this & that's okay. And hell, maybe even a guy playing at 75-80% of his potential is better then 95 % of the current 2nd baseman. That doesn't mean your average fan has to like it.

 

[yankeesince59]

And fearing a player is going to pull a hammer just because he hit 31, I'll use your phase, exaggerate much. C.mon you're old school just like me, did you ever see Mays, Aaron, Clemente & a crap load of other great players just J O G to the bases? Hell Mays, like Jeter & Ichiro in there late 30 were still busting it. Sorry worrying about a possible pulled hammy at 31 is not only weak but lame.


But what the hell its obvious were not going to agree on this & that's okay. And hell, maybe even a guy playing at 75-80% of his potential is better then 95 % of the current 2nd baseman. That doesn't mean your average fan has to like it.

...how in the hell did I exaggerate?...and how in the hell is it weak and lame? Hamstring injuries was only one example of what can go wrong with a player's wheels. You seriously don't think that players are not more prone to injury as they get older?...it's not exaggerating and it's not weak and it's not lame...it's a fact.

...and no, you don't have to like it. I just think it's much ado about nothing. This TEAM is simply not very good, period, and of all the things to cite as reasons for this year's record, Cano is being lambasted even though he is one of the only, if not the only bright spot on this TEAM?

 

[Rick2583]

...how in the hell did I exaggerate?...and how in the hell is it weak and lame? Hamstring injuries was only one example of what can go wrong with a player's wheels. You seriously don't think that players are not more prone to injury as they get older?...it's not exaggerating and it's not weak and it's not lame...it's a fact.

...and no, you don't have to like it. I just think it's much ado about nothing. This TEAM is simply not very good, period, and of all the things to cite as reasons for this year's record, Cano is being lambasted even though he is one of the only, if not the only bright spot on this TEAM?

My point on the exaggeration is this, if every player past & present (and I gave you player examples) who turned 31 or 32 PURPOSELY slowed there game down because they worried about injuries, then none of them would EVER beat out an infield single or turn a deep single into a double, or run hard from 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home on a single or steal a base this game would completely suck. Now if you're talking mid to late 30s say 35-39 then yes I'd say you should slow it down a bit. Especially if you have a history of injuries. But Cano is 31 with N O! history of injuries, so asking him to hustle a little bit more to benefit the T E A M is not really asking a lot.

And yes I agree Cano has been the one bright spot on the team this year & I'm in no way putting him anywhere near the top of the blame bucket, but perhaps we could have won an extra game or 2 or 3 if that bright spot played a little more to his potentional that would help the T E A M & less like a selfish prima-donna.

On that note my friend, this topic for me is CLOSED. I hope all is well with you & its nice seeing you back on the board. I love these kind of debates. Its like the good old days from the ESPN boards.

 

[yankeesince59]

...Cano has a WAR of 7.2 which is higher than any 2Bman in the game so I doubt him running all out on every ground ball would have made much of a difference, we'll never know...but they could have won a LOT more games if ALL of the other players had played up to their potential...but most of them did not. Like I said, this is simply not a very good "TEAM".

...and you can't just decide to "close" a topic...I want a fight goddamnit!

 

[Yblue]

Does his perceived lack of hustle bug me, meh, sometimes, but you dont become the best in the sport by being lazy. Word is he has a tremendous work ethic. He doesnt bust it down the line, thats the least of this team's problems.

However, what is the best 2nd baseman in the sport now, might not be in 3-4-5 years. Thats why the yankees have to be careful with this contract. Not because he isn't great, or becaase he doesnt run hard all the time, but because you dont want another Tex, A-rod, or CC contract again.

....but they have no choice, lets face it. He has the yankees by the short and curlys. What else is new.

 

[Rick2583]

...Cano has a WAR of 7.2 which is higher than any 2Bman in the game so I doubt him running all out on every ground ball would have made much of a difference, we'll never know...but they could have won a LOT more games if ALL of the other players had played up to their potential...but most of them did not. Like I said, this is simply not a very good "TEAM".

...and you can't just decide to "close" a topic...I want a fight goddamnit!

That's what wives are for...............................you bitch.

 

[Hammerojustice]

Does his perceived lack of hustle bug me, meh, sometimes, but you dont become the best in the sport by being lazy. Word is he has a tremendous work ethic. He doesnt bust it down the line, thats the least of this team's problems.

However, what is the best 2nd baseman in the sport now, might not be in 3-4-5 years. Thats why the yankees have to be careful with this contract. Not because he isn't great, or becaase he doesnt run hard all the time, but because you dont want another Tex, A-rod, or CC contract again.

....but they have no choice, lets face it. He has the yankees by the short and curlys. What else is new.

All of what you said is true... but even if they do pony up and sign Cano to a contract that favors the Yankees (which won't happen), the Yankees are still a long way off from being a competitive team next year or beyond...

 

[Messiah717]

Simply put they have no choice but to resign Cano. With the current state of the team you cannot leave yourself a major void like that and have nothing to build around.

 

[Yblue]

Simply put they have no choice but to resign Cano. With the current state of the team you cannot leave yourself a major void like that and have nothing to build around.

Keep in mind.....people once said they HAD to keep Arod and they HAD to resign CC. The yankees can miss the playoffs with or without cano. Line in the sand is 5 years. 6 max. Any more the yankees very much can let him walk, and should.

 

[Messiah717]

Keep in mind.....people once said they HAD to keep Arod and they HAD to resign CC. The yankees can miss the playoffs with or without cano. Line in the sand is 5 years. 6 max. Any more the yankees very much can let him walk, and should.

I agree with you on the standing firm on the years. I don't go more than 5. If he wants more than that tell him to go find a better offer and then get back to us. Enough with bidding against yourselves.