Terry Stotts has been extended

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The Stotts defenders will try to discredit any other coach.
This is simply not true...the idea that liking someone means bashing everyone else is pretty shallow. I don't get that from Stotts supporters...many of his detractors seem over the top emo about him.....same with Olshey….I chalk it up to the fact that there are folks who will never like a "players" coach...they seem need a micro managing control freak at the helm. Stability in a franchise is way underrated from a long term perspective..everyone knows why you don't like him. Disagreeing with it seems to be the line in the sand...and it shouldn't be
 
This has always been the conversation regarding All European coaches.
Here is the content that was discussed for his move to the Lakers if that should happen. The very reason he went to San Antonio was to get a better hold on defensive principles as discussed in this link.
"As with most European coaches, his most important transition will be on the defensive end. Most European coaches have to adjust from the more zone-based defensive schemes to which they’re accustomed to the NBA style. That being said, Messina’s main intention in coming to the States as an assistant was to learn more about the NBA game to make his transition to a head coaching position easier. While also demonstrating his lack of ego, the time spent with the perennial contenders in San Antonio and their dominant defense has definitely instilled in him modern NBA defensive principles. "

https://hashtagbasketball.com/los-a...-case-for-ettore-messina-as-lakers-head-coach

Now am i trying to tell you he will be a bad Defensive Coach? No i am not. What i am however saying is that he has indeed been soft on defense and he is a good enough coach to understand that and he is addressing it. Learning is a Life Long Process. Ettore Messina is working to improve. This is nothing but a way to commend his ability to see his weakness and fix it.

I thought you were saying the word was out on the "huge holes" in Udoka's defensive coaching abilities. You're talking about Messina?
 
This is simply not true...the idea that liking someone means bashing everyone else is pretty shallow. I don't get that from Stotts supporters...many of his detractors seem over the top emo about him.....same with Olshey….I chalk it up to the fact that there are folks who will never like a "players" coach...they seem need a micro managing control freak at the helm. Stability in a franchise is way underrated from a long term perspective..everyone knows why you don't like him. Disagreeing with it seems to be the line in the sand...and it shouldn't be
Okay, I should've said one specific Stotts defender.

Stability also means the same ridiculous, fixable flaws year after year.
 
I thought you were saying the word was out on the "huge holes" in Udoka's defensive coaching abilities. You're talking about Messina?
This is Messina.
Look though i have always and will always want Messina here if that option ever comes available. Just the very fact that he went to coach under Pop just to work on any possible defensive liabilities he might have had speaks volumes.
How many Championship caliber coaches are willing to say i will go be an assistant coach and learn to be a better coach? You can only respect a guy like that.
 
Yet, in the playoffs when a coach fails at making in-game adjustments it makes it very difficult to win, even if he's the perfect coach in every other aspect.

So let me ask you this, does your criteria account for if a coach is good enough to take a team to the championship? Or does his coaching make it so he can get his team in a position to be there but not over the top?

I think Terry is a pretty damn good regular season coach because his players play hard for him and gameplans aren't as tight.

I think those are fair comments. He is a good regular season coach because he's consistent with his guys and has a solid plan and structure that the players understand. But when the playoffs come, some of that consistency transforms into predictability and inability to adapt to the other team scheming against you. It's kind of a double edged sword. Reminds me a lot of Jerry Sloan.
 
I feel like you should judge coaches by the style of basketball and schemes seen on the court.
So if he moved Dame and CJ to the bench, but they played the style of basketball and schemes you prefer, he'd be a good coach?
If Dame demanded he was fired for incompetence, but they played the style of basketball and schemes you prefer, he'd be a good coach?
If we played our guys 42mpg in the preseason, but they played the style of basketball and schemes you prefer, he'd be a good coach?
Your criteria is ridiculously simplistic.
Your criteria is also subject to extreme bias--who gets to decide what's a good style of basketball or a good scheme? You, I presume?
You are essentially saying, "Your 6 criteria is biased while my 2 criteria isn't, because I see the truth, whereas you are biased."


1. Talent is subjective to bias and opinion. Expectations are biased, especially in national media. People always doubt Portland, no matter what. Using that to say the coach is good is a reach and a half.
What part of any of your posts, my posts, or anyones aren't subject to bias and opinion? This is a meaningless statement.

2. Plumlee isnt any worse in DEN. Plumlee went from a starting center to a guy getting 15mpg in the playoffs. Matthews isnt a fair comparison because he left right after an achilles tear.Curry, Hood, and Kanter all showed what they did in Portland earlier in their careers. Why were they available for pennies on the dollar? Think they'll make more money post-Terry than they did signing with us? Are you really arguing Portland had nothing to do with rehabbing these guys' careers?

3. A coaches ability to reach players, get them to not fight, accept roles, and have good chemistry? Thats as much on the GM in regards to the character of players he brings in, and kn Dame for being a leader able to develop chemistry. Our chemistry and locker room wouldve been the same, regardless of the coach. A coach doesnt really affect the dynamic between players, or how willing a player is to accept a role. Man, that statement is nuts. A coach has nothing to do with a locker room? Getting people to accept roles? Really? At this point I kind of feel like I'm wasting my time if that's really what you think. Yikes.

4. We dont run a pace-and-space scheme. Were one of the slowest paced teams in the leauge. Our offense is basically simple handoffs, pick n roll, and isolation. That's true--maybe pace and space is the wrong term. Perhaps 3-point/guard-heavy? Regardless how you describe it, the point is teams are using perimeter players to put a lot of points on the board. Portland used their guards to be 5th in the league in scoring. It's hard to argue Portland's problems stem from outdated scoring strategies when we outscore all but 4 teams.

5. 2-for-1s are extremely basic, and shouldnt be used to credit an NBA coach. Rec league teams go for 2-for-1s. Yes they do. But watching the league I honestly think Portland does it better than any other team. A lot of that is on Dame and CJ, but really I never feel like our guys are unaware of the clock.

6. Coaches arent looking for a destination franchise. Mike Budenholzer (the guy I advocated firing Stotts for last summer) went to Milwaukee. Budenholzer also went to a team with the guy who will probably be the league MVP.

Because we had poor former coaches doesnt make Stotts good. Theres no correlation. The grass isn't always greener is my point. In fact, history since 2002 shows it's harder to get a good coach here than many appreciate.
 
Sometimes, it looks to me that Stotts is afraid to make changes because he doesn't want to hurt players feelings, i'm serious fams, I have no idea what else it could be. My little sister could see that Aminu was unplayable, Moe put up okay numbers but he was a zero threat neither against Denver or Golden State. And the Transition from Regular Season to Playoffs is too big for him
 
I think those are fair comments. He is a good regular season coach because he's consistent with his guys and has a solid plan and structure that the players understand. But when the playoffs come, some of that consistency transforms into predictability and inability to adapt to the other team scheming against you. It's kind of a double edged sword. Reminds me a lot of Jerry Sloan.
It's amusing how a coach can take a team to the Conference finals and then get ragged on. It would seem that whenever a team had a bad season for little to no reason one would reserve such criticism.
 
It's amusing how a coach can take a team to the Conference finals and then get ragged on. It would seem that whenever a team had a bad season for little to no reason one would reserve such criticism.

I don't think I'm ragging on him. I think you have to have a nuanced perspective when evaluating him as a coach. The point about playoff performance makes me re-evaluate my own criteria, and that I should more heavily weight that in the final analysis.
 
Hmmm. Seems negotiations between D'Antoni and Houston for an extension have broken down. Despite recent success, the team wanted a performance based contract, rather than a blank check.

I guess Houston doesn't see losing to the Warriors as inevitable and acceptable. Imagine that. Of course, you could also say D'Antoni just outed himself as lacking faith in the future of his team!
 
Sometimes, it looks to me that Stotts is afraid to make changes because he doesn't want to hurt players feelings, i'm serious fams, I have no idea what else it could be. My little sister could see that Aminu was unplayable, Moe put up okay numbers but he was a zero threat neither against Denver or Golden State. And the Transition from Regular Season to Playoffs is too big for him

It seems crazy to say but it's true. I watched his post game press conference after game 7 against Nuggets and he was asked about not starting Aminu and Harkless and he just had the saddest look on his face. Like he was genuinely upset that he didn't start them. It was weird. Look it up. He really cares about the position of players and their feelings.
 
We're going to look back when it's all said and done and say that this team wasted Dame's prime. They wasted it with shitty contracts, mediocre talent surrounding him, and an inferior coaching staff.

Mariner's fans are used to watching that happen.
 
Why do we keep getting GM's who are too fucking attached to their players?
Attached to their players.... or coach?

Hire a new coach —> new coach implements a new scheme (offence and defence) —> GM tries to bring in players who fit that scheme.

It’s all Olshey’s fault!!!
 
We're going to look back when it's all said and done and say that this team wasted Dame's prime. They wasted it with shitty contracts, mediocre talent surrounding him, and an inferior coaching staff.

I'm right there with you on shitty contracts and mediocre talent.

I'd add badly fitting talent--CJ should've been traded years ago for a player who actually complemented our star player more. It's amazing to me that this bad fit has gone 7 years (so far). Anyone who wonders what life would've been like if Golden State never traded Monte Ellis can just re-watch the wasted years of Dame's prime. If you have Steph Curry, don't put a worse version of Steph Curry next to him. How Olshey has somehow not managed to notice the lesson of the most dominant back court of the 2010's is beyond me.

I disagree on coaching, though. When we had a healthy Lillard/Matthews/Batum/LMA, nobody was calling for Stotts' head. That season and a half was really the only time where stars aligned with health and roster for this team.
 
It's time to rebuild around Moses Brown.

barfo
 
I'm right there with you on shitty contracts and mediocre talent.

I'd add badly fitting talent--CJ should've been traded years ago for a player who actually complemented our star player more. It's amazing to me that this bad fit has gone 7 years (so far). Anyone who wonders what life would've been like if Golden State never traded Monte Ellis can just re-watch the wasted years of Dame's prime. If you have Steph Curry, don't put a worse version of Steph Curry next to him. How Olshey has somehow not managed to notice the lesson of the most dominant back court of the 2010's is beyond me.

I disagree on coaching, though. When we had a healthy Lillard/Matthews/Batum/LMA, nobody was calling for Stotts' head. That season and a half was really the only time where stars aligned with health and roster for this team.
If we're gonna keep bringing up precedence about players, we need to think about this from the coaching perspective as well. I've been calling this Monta-CJ thing a false equivalence. Monta killed the spacing for Steph, while CJ helps Dame in that regard. While CJ and Dame have not had the kind of synergy we all want, isn't there a part of you that wants to see what another coach can do with these guys?

As I mentioned months ago in this same thread, Terry is currently the 4th longest tenured active coach in the league behind only Pop/Carlisle/Spo. All of them have championships. Does Terry warrant this kind of confidence given his paltry playoff record? Even without that, it's about the bigger picture for me. There is a reason why there's so much turnover among the coaching ranks. Voices fall on deaf ears and the game evolves faster than coaches are able to adapt. And one of Terry's biggest weaknesses is how glacially slow he makes changes to his rotations/strategy/etc.

When a guy like Mike D'Antoni with all his playoff trips and adaptability and tact can't get a contract extension and is a lame duck coach this year in Houston, why did we feel the need to extend Terry after just one run to the conference finals in which we got thoroughly outclassed?
 
It's time to rebuild around Moses Brown.

barfo

Ah Moses! The man who led his people around for 40 years until he found the one place in the middle east that didn't have vast oil reserves!

Sounds about right.
 
I've been calling this Monta-CJ thing a false equivalence. Monta killed the spacing for Steph, while CJ helps Dame in that regard.

CJ is a much better three point shooter than Ellis was, and frankly a better player. Ellis was a better passer and much better at drawing fouls though, so it's not like teams just ignored him on the offensive end. Both are 6'3 guys who are liabilities on defense, though, which is the bigger issue.
 
When a guy like Mike D'Antoni with all his playoff trips and adaptability and tact can't get a contract extension and is a lame duck coach this year in Houston, why did we feel the need to extend Terry after just one run to the conference finals in which we got thoroughly outclassed?

I think Portland is much more patient with both competent and incompetent coaches. Stotts is a competent, if not great, coach. But we spent a decade before him with McMillan and Cheeks--two guys who were clearly terrible coaches. I think there's a lot of organizational (and fan) memory of how awful that shit was, and we don't want to give up adequate and risk incompetence once again. Portland has not been an a-list destination for great free agents or great coaches. Better the "pretty good" instead of the the unknown.

I'd rather see Portland do a roster overhaul before looking at coaching changes.
 
I think Portland is much more patient with both competent and incompetent coaches. Stotts is a competent, if not great, coach. But we spent a decade before him with McMillan and Cheeks--two guys who were clearly terrible coaches. I think there's a lot of organizational (and fan) memory of how awful that shit was, and we don't want to give up adequate and risk incompetence once again. Portland has not been an a-list destination for great free agents or great coaches. Better the "pretty good" instead of the the unknown.

I'd rather see Portland do a roster overhaul before looking at coaching changes.
Among coaches today-- in a vacuum given the same roster-- where do you rank Terry? I think he's fairly average and we can find someone like him pretty easily. This season even, I'd probably put Nate ahead of him unfortunately.
 
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