Texas Gov Rick Perry Indicted

[barfo]

Edit: burden of proof to indict is 12 votes out of 23 jurors.

My research says Travis County grand juries have 12 jurors, not 23, and that 9 must vote to indict. Do you have some reason to believe the number was 23?

barfo

 

[barfo]

I agree that the governor is not exempt from laws governing bribery, extortion, and influence peddling. Or murder or any other actual crime.

What the news is reporting is that Perry was indicted for coercion:

...

Grand jurors indicted Perry on abuse of official capacity, a first-degree felony with potential punishments of five to 99 years in prison, and coercion of a public servant, a third-degree felony that carries a punishment of two to 10 years.

Not clear what you are trying to say here. First and third degree felonies aren't 'actual crimes'? Too bad, the law disagrees with you.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

My research says Travis County grand juries have 12 jurors, not 23, and that 9 must vote to indict. Do you have some reason to believe the number was 23?

barfo

It's 23 in California, 12 in Texas.

 

[Denny Crane]

Not clear what you are trying to say here. First and third degree felonies aren't 'actual crimes'? Too bad, the law disagrees with you.

barfo

He's not being charged for issuing a veto. That's not a crime.

 

[barfo]

He's not being charged for issuing a veto. That's not a crime.

Right. He's also not being charged with eating a popsicle. That's also not a crime. In fact, there is a long list of things that aren't crimes that he isn't being indicted for.

Still not clear what your point is.

barfo

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Governor getting indicted is a really big deal. It could all be politics, I think hard for any of us to say, imo, but the fact a governor is getting officially charged with crimes is huge.

Probably good this will be hard for him to be the republican candidate in 2016. He used his power to try and force a District Attorney to resign. Weather this rose to a level of a crime we will find out in due time. But do you want a president who acts like this? And would he be a strong republican candidate given this history? There has to be better republican candidates than Rick Perry.

 

[Denny Crane]

Governor getting indicted is a really big deal. It could all be politics, I think hard for any of us to say, imo, but the fact a governor is getting officially charged with crimes is huge.

Probably good this will be hard for him to be the republican candidate in 2016. He used his power to try and force a District Attorney to resign. Weather this rose to a level of a crime we will find out in due time. But do you want a president who acts like this? And would he be a strong republican candidate given this history? There has to be better republican candidates than Rick Perry.

http://www.businessinsider.com/liberals-criticize-rick-perry-indictment-2014-8

 

[Denny Crane]

Right. He's also not being charged with eating a popsicle. That's also not a crime. In fact, there is a long list of things that aren't crimes that he isn't being indicted for.

Still not clear what your point is.

barfo

The "crime" doesn't matter. The indictment for any reason was the goal. They scoured the statutes until they found one that they could try to pin on him.

 

[Minstrel]

The "crime" doesn't matter. The indictment for any reason was the goal. They scoured the statutes until they found one that they could try to pin on him.

So the moral of the story is that, if you have enemies, maybe don't break any laws?

Still not sure why "but they scoured the statutes until they found a law that there was evidence he broke" makes Perry a sympathetic figure.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

http://www.businessinsider.com/liberals-criticize-rick-perry-indictment-2014-8

I understand that many are questioning the indictment, and I can see why it looks politically motivated. But the fact remains Perry acted in manner that left him subject to bringing these charges against him. From the way he handled himself in the 2012 election and the way he is conducting himself as a governor, I think he lack the judgement to be a good president.

i guess he could still overcome this to get the republican nomination, but is the republican party really that desperate? The governor pushed the envelope and got bit. I don't much care what happens with this in Texas, but why not get someone with better judgement to not put themselves in this position when it comes to being the president.

 

[Denny Crane]

So the moral of the story is that, if you have enemies, maybe don't break any laws?

Still not sure why "but they scoured the statutes until they found a law that there was evidence he broke" makes Perry a sympathetic figure.

It makes the indictment a sham. Makes this ethics unit look like it's about revenge and partisanship.

The moral is don't back down and you'll be even more popular. He's even gained support from the likes of Axelrod, after all.

 

[Denny Crane]

I understand that many are questioning the indictment, and I can see why it looks politically motivated. But the fact remains Perry acted in manner that left him subject to bringing these charges against him. From the way he handled himself in the 2012 election and the way he is conducting himself as a governor, I think he lack the judgement to be a good president.

i guess he could still overcome this to get the republican nomination, but is the republican party really that desperate? The governor pushed the envelope and got bit. I don't much care what happens with this in Texas, but why not get someone with better judgement to not put themselves in this position when it comes to being the president.

He didn't push any envelope. All appearances are that he felt the head of the ethics office could no longer be seen as ethical due to being convicted of a real crime and jail time that went with it.

Perry has every right to run for president. Like you, I wouldn't vote for him, but clearly democrats are scared enough of him to do this petty thing.

 

[Minstrel]

It makes the indictment a sham.

Depends on whether any laws were actually broken.

Makes this ethics unit look like it's about revenge and partisanship.

Partisanship definitely dominates which politicians each party wants to indict, sue or impeach. The solution is not to commit any crimes. I'm not saying Perry has or hasn't--I have no idea and I don't much care. If he hasn't, presumably that's what the courts will find.

 

[Minstrel]

Perry has every right to run for president. Like you, I wouldn't vote for him, but clearly democrats are scared enough of him to do this petty thing.

Yes...Democrats are frightened of a Republican politician that even a committed conservative like you wouldn't vote for.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

He didn't push any envelope. All appearances are that he felt the head of the ethics office could no longer be seen as ethical due to being convicted of a real crime and jail time that went with it.

Perry has every right to run for president. Like you, I wouldn't vote for him, but clearly democrats are scared enough of him to do this petty thing.

I didn't say he doesn't have a right to run for president. Just like the special prosecutor had every right to bring a case to a grand jury and the grand jury had eery right to bring charges against Rick Perry. This isn't about rights. For me, this is about if Rick Perry would be a good republican presidential candidate.

I disagree that he didn't push the envelope. He just got indicted. So whatever appearances you think his actions had, a grand jury did not agree with you.

And you make it sound like Axelrod said the indictment was a sham, he didn't say that. He said it was sketchy (even qualifying that saying he doesn't know all the facts), meaning to me at the very least Perry pushed the envelope. While others are calling for his resignation based on the indictment. There is a whole legal process to go and have this played out where we might even be able to see all the evidence involved here (not like we went through hundreds of pages and spoke to 40 witnesses)

You bring up an interesting point, there will be some irony here if Perry is convicted of a real crime and jail time that goes with it.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

[video=youtube;T0hC1a4-AGM]

 

[MarAzul]

Yes...Democrats are frightened of a Republican politician that even a committed conservative like you wouldn't vote for.

I would vote for him. He just is not my first choice.

I still can't imagine how it is possible to indite a sitting Governor for vetoing a spending bill.
When vetoing a bill in not a valid choice for a Governor, the position of Governor is redundant for any purpose except pose as a political target.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I would vote for him. He just is not my first choice.

I still can't imagine how it is possible to indite a sitting Governor for vetoing a spending bill.
When vetoing a bill in not a valid choice for a Governor, the position of Governor is redundant for any purpose except pose as a political target.

He is being accuse of using his veto power to run someone out of office.

There has got to be a better republican candidate. I think a republican will win this next election unless the party make a huge mistake. Perry would be too much of a risk, IMO.

 

[HailBlazers]

This is probably a good thing for the republican party as he can now be eliminated as a presidential candidate rather than all this play out if he was the republican candidate.

Amen, Perry is a bonehead. The GOP deserves better, despite how boneheaded they've become.

 

[MarAzul]

He is being accuse of using his veto power to run someone out of office.

There has got to be a better republican candidate. I think a republican will win this next election unless the party make a huge mistake. Perry would be too much of a risk, IMO.

So in that system, it is only valid to sign the bill or the opposition can indite? That is utter bull shit.

There are several better Republican candidates, but zero Democrats.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

So in that system, it is only valid to sign the bill or the opposition can indite? That is utter bull shit.

There are several better Republican candidates, but zero Democrats.

No, as I generally understand it, it is improper to tell an elected official if you don't resign I am going to use my veto power to cut your funding.

The democrats will have some good candidates, but they are running in the shadow of Obama. I see it as it's the republican party's presidency to win or lose . . . but that is my gut feeling rather knowing what the polls are out there about Obama . . . which could all change in a year anyways.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Lillard for President!

 

[Denny Crane]

I didn't say he doesn't have a right to run for president. Just like the special prosecutor had every right to bring a case to a grand jury and the grand jury had eery right to bring charges against Rick Perry. This isn't about rights. For me, this is about if Rick Perry would be a good republican presidential candidate.

I disagree that he didn't push the envelope. He just got indicted. So whatever appearances you think his actions had, a grand jury did not agree with you.

And you make it sound like Axelrod said the indictment was a sham, he didn't say that. He said it was sketchy (even qualifying that saying he doesn't know all the facts), meaning to me at the very least Perry pushed the envelope. While others are calling for his resignation based on the indictment. There is a whole legal process to go and have this played out where we might even be able to see all the evidence involved here (not like we went through hundreds of pages and spoke to 40 witnesses)

You bring up an interesting point, there will be some irony here if Perry is convicted of a real crime and jail time that goes with it.

Sketchy means the indictment is weak. Axelrod elaborated on why.

 

[MarAzul]

No, as I generally understand it, it is improper to tell an elected official if you don't resign I am going to use my veto power to cut your funding.

The democrats will have some good candidates, but they are running in the shadow of Obama. I see it as it's the republican party's presidency to win or lose . . . but that is my gut feeling rather knowing what the polls are out there about Obama . . . which could all change in a year anyways.

WTF? How can it be improper for a Govenror to veto a spending bill? It doesn't fucking matter what you think the reason is.

There is not a democrat that I consider good. Sure none that would get my vote. When Nixion ran, I did vote for JFK but that was back when Dems were closer to Republicans of today. The second time Nixon ran, I voted for Ralph Nader or some other throw away vote candidate. Couldn't bring myself to vote Democrat after having Johnson for President. Carter finished the lesson. Obama has topped it off, never be sucked in by a democrat.

 

[barfo]

WTF? How can it be improper for a Govenror to veto a spending bill? It doesn't fucking matter what you think the reason is.

He wasn't indicted for vetoing the bill.

Your argument is akin to: Driving is legal, I have a valid license, therefore I cannot be charged for murder for running over my ex-wife.

barfo

 

[The_Lillard_King]

WTF? How can it be improper for a Govenror to veto a spending bill? It doesn't fucking matter what you think the reason is.

There is not a democrat that I consider good. Sure none that would get my vote. When Nixion ran, I did vote for JFK but that was back when Dems were closer to Republicans of today. The second time Nixon ran, I voted for Ralph Nader or some other throw away vote candidate. Couldn't bring myself to vote Democrat after having Johnson for President. Carter finished the lesson. Obama has topped it off, never be sucked in by a democrat.

Not improper for a governor to veto a spending bill. Improper for a governor to threaten someone.

I figure you are someone who votes along party lines. I get that. Do you want Rick Perry as the republican nominee? I think you might like paul Ryan who is a serious candidate for the nominee. Chris Christie jumps out to me . . . but I haven't really looked at it much.

 

[Denny Crane]

He wasn't indicted for vetoing the bill.

Your argument is akin to: Driving is legal, I have a valid license, therefore I cannot be charged for murder for running over my ex-wife.

barfo

Vetoes and veto threats are always to coerce other politicians.

How many times did you run over your wife?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

How many times did you run over your wife?

It puts the lotion on its skin so it won't stick to my bumper again.

 

[barfo]

Vetoes and veto threats are always to coerce other politicians.

Not to resign their positions, no.

How many times did you run over your wife?

Just 3.

barfo

 

[Minstrel]

Just 3.

And none of them were even really crimes because your enemies (the relatives of your wives) checked the laws to find your crime, proving how biased they were.