The Afterlife? Real or Not

[magnifier661]

This is why I don't think science can truly monitor life after death, sorry Stevenson. I've really tried hard to imagine a life in Heaven. It says in the Bible that our flesh is buried and our souls are one with God. It also said we are perfect.

That "perfectness" is what really boggles my mind. I mean we live on earth and each individual is different. Meaning, some people think one group are beautiful, while another thinks they are ugly. I know this sounds "shallow", but it really is the truth.

In Heaven and this "perfectness", I see more of a one with God, or our creator for ones that don't want to label a physical entity as God. That our likeness is that we all share the same living energy. We have the conscious memories of life on Earth, but there are no more judging on physical traits because we aren't physical any longer.

I'm not a typical Christian that thinks we are exactly how we are on Earth, living in some kingdom with mansions and streams with boneless fish. All of those stories seem more like a man not understanding the event of energy.

 

[Stevenson]

First I want to say thank you to all of you for an enlightening and interesting discussion. I have leaned some thing I did not know before, and considered things I had not considered before. Gotta love that.

You said it best Mags - "I think we become a conscious energy that remembers who we are "our ego", and we are of a spirit "without matter"." To me that is the most accurate description of what happens. I too have (obviously) read a lot on this subject, and I don't think it is wishful thinking to conclude that is what happens. To me, there is overwhelming evidence of that.

I just don't see how spiritual experiences can just be discounted as a brain function. Well, I guess they can, but that seems to be a very narrow reading in such an incredible, and incredibly complex, universe.

 

[magnifier661]

First I want to say thank you to all of you for an enlightening and interesting discussion. I have leaned some thing I did not know before, and considered things I had not considered before. Gotta love that.

You said it best Mags - "I think we become a conscious energy that remembers who we are "our ego", and we are of a spirit "without matter"." To me that is the most accurate description of what happens. I too have (obviously) read a lot on this subject, and I don't think it is wishful thinking to conclude that is what happens. To me, there is overwhelming evidence of that.

I just don't see how spiritual experiences can just be discounted as a brain function. Well, I guess they can, but that seems to be a very narrow reading in such an incredible, and incredibly complex, universe.

I appreciate it brother.

I've also learned that sometimes, psychedelics can switch our conscious outside of our physical self, like I mentioned with DMT. Shamans used ayahuasca, peyote, or mushrooms to enlighten or set your spiritual journey. In this case, I think the psychedelic frees your mind from your body and see the world in a different light.

There are types of meditations that do the same type of separation as well.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

there is contention between scientists and people who don't understand the nature of objectivity pointing to bogus subjective claims driven by wishful thinking (or quacks trying to cash in on wishful thinkers by selling books), but there is nothing at all contentious within the field of neurobiology.

whatever consciousness is, ALL objective evidence absolutely indicates it emerges from activity in the physical brain, and cannot exist without it. the significance of this simply cannot be brushed under the carpet. no amount of wishful thinking or anecdotal claims can make it go away.



speak for yourself. I've been studying this for years. I've read and objectively considered most publicized claims of evidence for an afterlife. Most are silly. A few are interesting. None are convincingly without possible alternate physical explanation.

I've also put as much time into considering and coming to grips with the implications of evolution as any scientist. our mental functioning while the most advanced, is otherwise not particularly special or differentiable from other animals. there is no reason we should expect there to be continuation of consciousness after death in any form just because we happen to be self-aware and able to consider the possibility.

Unless one of you is a cognitive neurologist and isn't saying so.

Well there ya go.

 

[Stevenson]

The issue of psychedelics takes the discussion in a whole new way. Clearly they open the mind to alternate realities and spiritual truths that are not easy to experience in everyday life. But, once glimpsed, cannot be ignored or forgotten.

 

[Denny Crane]

When 20% of heart attack victims that suffer NDEs share the same experience, the commonality is the lack of oxygen to the brain. That 80% don't have these NDEs argues against anything of a supernatural nature.

That the few who have this experience see a white light is akin to saying those who take LSD see trails or whatever. Speaks to brain chemistry.

That people actually pair up because their kids should be smart is because genetics works as advertised. There's no spirit or ghost or anything else to it.

 

[riverman]

Real or not? Reality is overrated! Begs the question, afterlife would require having a life to begin with...and why does it have to be after? Quantum Physics poses the question, parallel life or alternative life. Also whether we are to be defined as independant entities or part of the entire cloud chamber of ions. Light and energy can traverse the universe for an eternity, why not our inner light? This is an age old debate but as a wise man once said, the question is ultimately more fascinating than the answer. Fact is we don't know. It's all based on guesswork and supposition. Maybe it's entirely within our own control to project our energies into alternative states of being? I'm more of the school of "surprise me because I really don't need to know this stuff when I'm dying.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

My opinion...

Religion is complete bullshit.

If there is an afterlife it's beyond human comprehension.

I hope there is something though.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

What the hell is inner light supposed to be?

 

[magnifier661]

My opinion...

Religion is complete bullshit.

If there is an afterlife it's beyond human comprehension.

I hope there is something though.

I can see and respect your opinion. I'm not gonna try and argue on this shit anymore. I believe what I believe and share my experience and interpretation. You or anyone else can say in full of shit and I'm fine with it.

Sometimes I wish people could somehow see and feel what I've felt.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I can see and respect your opinion. I'm not gonna try and argue on this shit anymore. I believe what I believe and share my experience and interpretation. You or anyone else can say in full of shit and I'm fine with it.

Sometimes I wish people could somehow see and feel what I've felt.

Even if we saw and felt what you have, there's no guarantee we would come to the same conclusion. Everyone is different.

 

[magnifier661]

What the hell is inner light supposed to be?

Depends on who is trying to use it. The Buddhist call it chi, the Christians call them souls

 

[magnifier661]

Even if we saw and felt what you have, there's no guarantee we would come to the same conclusion. Everyone is different.

Absolutely true, but I've seen some shit man!

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Absolutely true, but I've seen some shit man!

Haha I don't doubt it!

 

[magnifier661]

Haha I don't doubt it!

I've always wished I could have one of those brain recorders when I was tripping. It would be insane to watch them after and sober.

 

[crowTrobot]

The issue of psychedelics takes the discussion in a whole new way. Clearly they open the mind to alternate realities and spiritual truths that are not easy to experience in everyday life.

this has to be a level. you're implying drug-induced hallucination is actually glimpsing a part of objective reality we can't normally detect? that's beyond silly.

 

[crowTrobot]

I believe what I believe

are you joining the ABM school of justification?

 

[magnifier661]

are you joining the ABM school of justification?

Nope, I can debate you all day long. I'm doing this for the good of the forum. If you'd like to start a debate, just call me out.

 

[magnifier661]

this has to be a level. you're implying drug-induced hallucination is actually glimpsing a part of objective reality we can't normally detect? that's beyond silly.

Have you done psychedelics?

Edit: have you done heroic doses of psychedelics?

 

[crowTrobot]

If there is an afterlife it's beyond human comprehension.

people in ancient times thought a lot of knowledge grade school childred take for granted now was beyond human comprehension.

 

[crowTrobot]

Nope, I can debate you all day long. I'm doing this for the good of the forum. If you'd like to start a debate, just call me out.

just giving you a hard time there. I know you care way more about justifying belief than ABM.

 

[magnifier661]

people in ancient times thought a lot of knowledge grade school childred take for granted now was beyond human comprehension.

Oh really? How many conversations you had with an ancient civilization? I've seen pyramids and many other colossal feats built by these simpletons from your definition

 

[magnifier661]

just giving you a hard time there. I know you care way more about justifying belief than ABM.

Thanks man... Appreciate it

 

[crowTrobot]

Have you done psychedelics?

no. I've never even been drunk.

but as Denny pointed out all drugs do is alter brain chemistry and impair brain function. also it's trivial to show drugs cause people to hallucinate things that are demonstrably false. drug induced hallucinations are not windows into actually existing worlds we can't normally see.

 

[magnifier661]

no. I've never even been drunk.

but as Denny pointed out all drugs do is alter brain chemistry and impair brain function. also it's trivial to show drugs cause people to hallucinate things that are demonstrably false. they are not windows into actually existing worlds we can't normally see.

Well sir, until you've tried it, you don't have the credibility to understand.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

no. I've never even been drunk.

but as Denny pointed out all drugs do is alter brain chemistry and impair brain function. also it's trivial to show drugs cause people to hallucinate things that are demonstrably false. drug induced hallucinations are not windows into actually existing worlds we can't normally see.

And with those drugs comes intense feelings. There is no greater deceiver than that of human emotion.

 

[crowTrobot]

Oh really? How many conversations you had with an ancient civilization? I've seen pyramids and many other colossal feats built by these simpletons from your definition

I didn't say they were simpletons. They were just ignorant of certain things such as celestial mechanics and evolution that open paths to knowledge previously not even possible for them to envision.

If there is some sort of continuation after death there is no reason to think it's necessarily beyond our ability to comprehend.

 

[magnifier661]

And with those drugs comes intense feelings. There is no greater deceiver than that of human emotion.

The cartoon on your avatar is a group of peeps that have done their fair share of psychs! I love adventure time!

 

[crowTrobot]

Well sir, until you've tried it, you don't have the credibility to understand.

I don't understand what it feels like, but that's irrelevant. I do understand drug induced hallucinations are demonstrably unreliable. That's trivial.

 

[magnifier661]

I don't understand what it feels like, but that's irrelevant. I do understand drug induced hallucinations are demonstrably unreliable. That's trivial.

It's not about "what it feels like". It's actually seeing shit that isn't there. Or possibly seeing shit that is from somewhere else. I will not take one's opinion that hasn't experienced it first hand. Until you've been down the rabbit hole, your concept of it is unreliable.