the age of the earth

[3RA1N1AC]

That isn't a popular belief.

yeah i know, would be too easy

 

[magnifier661]

no, if we cloned you mags, and they were exactly like you and believed in jesus, would they go to heaven?

How can it? There isn't any study that cloned a full human. But if you are trying to dig into my philosophy; then if it's exactly like me "with a soul" then it has just as much a right to go to heaven as I do, IMO.

My thinking is: we aren't just parts; but we have another intimate part to us. Like we have a part of God in us. I call that "spirit"

 

[magnifier661]

yeah i know, would be too easy

I didn't make that rule. Physicians theorize it isn't realistic. I don't know as much about physics or quantum physics like people in that field. Trip Tango is one. Maybe ask him.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Only James Brown's clone would have enough soul to make it to heaven.

 

[Denny Crane]

Nobody claims to know how the universe ends. There are a few theories that are all possibilities, but no compelling evidence that any of those is the correct theory.

None of these theories involve a rapture or resurrection or those sorts of things.

 

[magnifier661]

Nobody claims to know how the universe ends. There are a few theories that are all possibilities, but no compelling evidence that any of those is the correct theory.

None of these theories involve a rapture or resurrection or those sorts of things.

What do you believe?

 

[Denny Crane]

They're all good theories. To me, it seems reasonable to expect the universe to expand to a size so big that everything becomes really far apart. So far apart that no two atoms would be close enough for gravity or other processes to take place. Basically the number of stars will decrease over a really (really really) long time until there are none left.

 

[magnifier661]

Okay so you believe all life, any studies and all this beauty will just fade away to nothingness?

 

[Denny Crane]

Okay so you believe all life, any studies and all this beauty will just fade away to nothingness?

That's what I said.

 

[magnifier661]

That's what I said.

Well that sucks. So all our information, art, history and well life is gone. If your right than that just sucks.

 

[MadeFromDust]

Well that sucks. So all our information, art, history and well life is gone. If your right than that just sucks.

If that's the case then you have to ask yourself where it all came from and why it was ever here rather than nothing. Something went boom 13 billion years ago and then faded away into an endless void of darkness forever more. Not only does it make no sense to me, but it's depressing as hell.

 

[crowTrobot]

If that's the case then you have to ask yourself where it all came from and why it was ever here rather than nothing.

why not?

 

[MadeFromDust]

why not?

Why would it be?

 

[crowTrobot]

Why would it be?

you're implying that if god didn't create the universe and it will eventually just undergo a heat death and humans will cease to exist, that somehow makes the existence of our universe and us improbable. we don't know how or why our universe came to exist, so you have no means to calculate probability. you're just making that deduction based on your anthropocentric intuitions.

 

[Denny Crane]

There are some question science likely won't answer. Why is the speed of light 186,000 miles/second instead of 187,000? It sure is a random number.

 

[MadeFromDust]

you're implying that if god didn't create the universe and it will eventually just undergo a heat death and humans will cease to exist, that somehow makes the existence of our universe and us improbable. we don't know how or why our universe came to exist, so you have no means to calculate probability. you're just making that deduction based on your anthropocentric intuitions.

I know why and how our universe came to be. And that's exactly what I'm saying will happen, and Denny Crane apparently agrees with me. and it makes not an ounce of sense to me either. You say it always just was and that it's unknown why or how it's here. Well I say God always was and brought the universe into existence by a matter of choice. I'm willing to accept that there's a reality beyond our reality. At what point does any of this stuff get any less weird than what's written in Bible?

 

[Denny Crane]

Wait a second here. I suggested a scientific reason and explanation for the ultimate end of the universe. Some one's, or some thing's will has nothing to do with it.

If the question were, "how is the earth going to end?" then I'd have a different answer, and it'd be as equally "firey" as the one offered by religion. You see, the sun will go boom after it burns out its fuel supply, and it'll take the earth along with it.

 

[MadeFromDust]

Wait a second here. I suggested a scientific reason and explanation for the ultimate end of the universe. Some one's, or some thing's will has nothing to do with it.

If the question were, "how is the earth going to end?" then I'd have a different answer, and it'd be as equally "firey" as the one offered by religion. You see, the sun will go boom after it burns out its fuel supply, and it'll take the earth along with it.

That's what I was referring to. Everything will burn out and we'll be left with an eternal black abyss of dead stars and galaxies that apparently had no rhyme or reason for being here in the first place. I'm going to scoff if an atheist ever laughs at my beliefs again.

 

[MadeFromDust]

Screams random cosmic accident to me.

Greater miracle, ^ this coming from a big random chance explosion, or Jesus rising from the dead?

 

[crowTrobot]

Greater miracle, ^ this coming from a big random chance explosion, or Jesus rising from the dead?

"random chance" and "god did it" are not the only possibilties.

 

[MadeFromDust]

"random chance" and "god did it" are not the only possibilties.

So what are your alternate theories then? And will you admit it feels good to live on blind faith like us Christians?

 

[crowTrobot]

That's what I was referring to. Everything will burn out and we'll be left with an eternal black abyss of dead stars and galaxies that apparently had no rhyme or reason for being here in the first place.

by no rhyme or reason you mean weren't purposefully created, so that's circular.

there is no reason and no evidence that would lead us to believe we should expect what exists to have an intrinsic purpose for existing. that notion is originating from your unfounded anthropocentrism (egocentrism).

 

[MadeFromDust]

by no rhyme or reason you mean weren't purposefully created, so that's circular.

How is that circular? If it wasn't created then what happened? Again, you will be living based entirely off of faith for something that will forever be unexplainable by science.

there is no reason and no evidence that would lead us to believe we should expect what exists to have an intrinsic purpose for existing. that notion is originating from your unfounded anthropocentrism (egocentrism).

We have all the evidence to believe there is a Creator, in fact we literally have no excuse not to believe. If you want to believe everything formed by a blind, source less random chance then the burden of proof is on you my friend. Think of the old analogy: a tornado ripping through a scrapyard and crapping out a fully functional 747, only about 1000000000X's more unlikely

 

[crowTrobot]

So what are your alternate theories then?

the evolution of species is driven by a process that doesn't involve conscious purpose but also isn't based on random chance. for all we know the laws that govern the formation and evolution of the universe could be the same. we don't know that the existence of the universe necessarily requires either purposeful design or random chance.

And will you admit it feels good to live on blind faith like us Christians?

i'm not the one pretending to know the answers. all i'm doing is pointing out that your intuitions about existence or your sense of aesthetic beauty or whatever implying that there is an underlying purpose is entirely anthropocentric and unsupported by actual evidence, and may well be mistaken.

 

[MadeFromDust]

the evolution of species is driven by a process that doesn't involve conscious purpose but also isn't based on random chance. for all we know the laws that govern the formation and evolution of the universe could be the same. we don't know that the existence of the universe necessarily requires either purposeful design or random chance.

Again, blind faith in a forever unknown. I know God, do you?

i'm not the one pretending to know the answers. all i'm doing is pointing out that your intuitions about existence or your sense of aesthetic beauty or whatever implying that there is an underlying purpose is entirely anthropocentric and unsupported by actual evidence, and may well be mistaken.

I'm not pretending to know all the answers, I just know there is a teleological purpose for our existence. And that has been proven over and over again throughout history when God has revealed Himself to mankind. Human beings are wired to believe in God all around the globe, was that a part of evolution too? The world is like 2% atheist and that's an all time high.

 

[crowTrobot]

We have all the evidence to believe there is a Creator, in fact we literally have no excuse not to believe. If you want to believe everything formed by a blind, source less random chance then the burden of proof is on you my friend. Think of the old analogy: a tornado ripping through a scrapyard and crapping out a fully functional 747, only about 1000000000X's more unlikely

i don't believe there is any validity to statistical arguments for theism of this type since they are based on a long string of assumptions (and your 747 argument incorrectly assumes that evolution is a random process).

and even if they were valid i see no evidence whatsoever that would lead me to tie them specifically to the god of christianity rather than some other god.

 

[MadeFromDust]

i don't believe there is any validity to statistical arguments for theism of this type since they are based on a long string of assumptions (and your 747 argument incorrectly assumes that evolution is a random process).

and even if they were valid i see no evidence whatsoever that would lead me to tie them specifically to the god of christianity rather than some other god.

According to you and some biologists, even though there is not a shred of observable evidence that evolution can even occur the way you want it to. And to the second part, that is why you have free will. A gift from God! I suggest you use that gift to seek truth and see where it leads you.

 

[magnifier661]

Wait a second here. I suggested a scientific reason and explanation for the ultimate end of the universe. Some one's, or some thing's will has nothing to do with it.

If the question were, "how is the earth going to end?" then I'd have a different answer, and it'd be as equally "firey" as the one offered by religion. You see, the sun will go boom after it burns out its fuel supply, and it'll take the earth along with it.

What does this mean? First of all I am not telling you that your logically answer is wrong. I am explaining if it's right than it sucks. Do you not think it sucks that everything, history, evolution, etc. is gone. Nothing... You could be logically right, but I can believe its emotionally wrong.

I tend to believe and think its healthy for our life to have purpose. That in the end there is some eternal reward. It's just a difference of opinion and your logical opinion worries me.

 

[crowTrobot]

Again, blind faith in a forever unknown.

i'm not placing faith in anything. when it comes to the origin of the universe agnosticism is the only valid intellectual position. if something can't be known it can't be know. there is nothing wrong with admitting you don't know something and not fooling yourself into thinking you do.

I'm not pretending to know all the answers, I just know there is a teleological purpose for our existence. And that has been proven over and over again throughout history when God has revealed Himself to mankind.

what does that have to do with jesus specifically?

Human beings are wired to believe in God all around the globe, was that a part of evolution too?

i don't know if it's actually genetic or learned, but belief in god certainly can be beneficial emotionally for some people. there's no reason to expect it not to be popular or common.

The world is like 2% atheist and that's an all time high.

as long as you're placing any emphasis on demographics of belief having any relation to truth you should note that the world is at least 67% non-christian.

 

[crowTrobot]

According to you and some biologists, even though there is not a shred of observable evidence that evolution can even occur the way you want it to. And to the second part, that is why you have free will. A gift from God! I suggest you use that gift to seek truth and see where it leads you.

thanks for the sermon.