The Big Bang and Cosmic Inflation

[Further]

Well I agree to extent, because I believe God is incomprehensible to man, as you would expect Him to be. The trinity itself is a testament to that. But using terms like that are about as close as we can get to explaining and comprehending the unexplainable and incomprehensible IMO.

But you are using those terms simply because they make you comfortable and fit with your paradigm. I could just as easily say whatever is beyond must be silly, onerous and zen-like. It's fine if you have your belief, It may be correct, but there is just no reason to believe it is correct based on any shred of evidence.

 

[Denny Crane]

As has been said many times before. There is just as much evidence of unicorns as of any deity. I don't see people en masse hysteria believing in unicorns.

 

[Further]

As has been said many times before. There is just as much evidence of unicorns as of any deity. I don't see people en masse hysteria believing in unicorns.

I can tell you haven't hung out with Bronies lately.

 

[Denny Crane]

I can tell you haven't hung out with Bronies lately.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn

 

[Cryptkeeper]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn

The Invisible Pink Unicorn (IPU) is the goddess of a parody religion used to satirize theistic beliefs, taking the form of a unicorn that is paradoxically both invisible and pink.[1] She is a rhetorical illustration used by atheists and other religious skeptics as a contemporary version of Russell's teapot, sometimes mentioned in conjunction with the Flying Spaghetti Monster.[2]

DaFuck..?

 

[MadeFromDust]

I get it that you don't grok the analogy. It's maybe a poor choice in my part to expect you to.

There was no time before time existed. The universe's game clock started with the big bang. There is no other clock but the universe's game clock.

I understand that time began to exist when the universe began to exist, we are not in disagreement here. I don't know what point you are trying to make.

 

[Further]

DaFuck..?

In case you haven't heard that term, I just linked all the threads on this very site that use Flying Spaghetti Monster

 

[Denny Crane]

I understand that time began to exist when the universe began to exist, we are not in disagreement here. I don't know what point you are trying to make.

There is no ETERNAL without time.

 

[MadeFromDust]

Before I leave, here's this again Denny:

e·ter·nal [ih-tur-nl]
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal ): eternal life.
2.
perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3.
enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4.
Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.
noun
5.
something that is eternal.
6.
the Eternal, God.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eternal

Take it up with Webster.

 

[Denny Crane]

METAPHYSICS

Ghosts. Goblins. Fairy tales. Etc.

Webster:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eternal

Full Definition of ETERNAL

1
a : having infinite duration : everlasting <eternal damnation>
b : of or relating to eternity
c : characterized by abiding fellowship with God <good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? — Mark 10:17(Revised Standard Version)>
2
a : continued without intermission : perpetual <an eternal flame>
b : seemingly endless <eternal delays>
3
archaic : infernal <some eternal villain … devised this slander — Shakespeare>
4
: valid or existing at all times : timeless <eternal verities>
— eter·nal·ize transitive verb
— eter·nal·ly adverb
— eter·nal·ness noun

(No Metaphysics bullshit)

 

[Further]

it is an interesting conundrum; how do we have a discussion about something for which our language is incapable of easily expressing our thoughts.

 

[Denny Crane]

it is an interesting conundrum; how do we have a discussion about something for which our language is incapable of easily expressing our thoughts.

If you say so. In fairy tales, there are trolls. It may have a definition of those fairy tale trolls in the dictionary along with the internet variety.

The oddest leap of logic in this thread is that the internet variety and the fairy tale variety are one and the same. Take it up with Webster!

 

[Further]

I not in disagreement, it's important to define terms, especially ones that are central to the topic at hand. But when talking about this current topic, what happened to precipitate the big bang, or what exists beyond our universe, there are no truly correct terms. For example just in my last sentence, I used the words "beyond" and "precipitate"but those terms actually speaks of distance or time respectively, but we may be discussing something to which physical parameters can't apply, so nothing could be closer or further, within or beyond. So any time reference, any distance reference, any measurement of any type really can't translate into this subject.

 

[Denny Crane]

I not in disagreement, it's important to define terms, especially ones that are central to the topic at hand. But when talking about this current topic, what happened to precipitate the big bang, or what exists beyond our universe, there are no truly correct terms. For example just in my last sentence, I used the words "beyond" and "precipitate"but those terms actually speaks of distance or time respectively, but we may be discussing something to which physical parameters can't apply, so nothing could be closer or further, within or beyond. So any time reference, any distance reference, any measurement of any type really can't translate into this subject.

Like I said early on, it is a hard concept to grasp that there was no time before there was time.

Once you get it, you get it.

 

[MadeFromDust]

METAPHYSICS

Ghosts. Goblins. Fairy tales. Etc.

Webster:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eternal

Full Definition of ETERNAL

1
a : having infinite duration : everlasting <eternal damnation>
b : of or relating to eternity
c : characterized by abiding fellowship with God <good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? — Mark 10:17(Revised Standard Version)>
2
a : continued without intermission : perpetual <an eternal flame>
b : seemingly endless <eternal delays>
3
archaic : infernal <some eternal villain … devised this slander — Shakespeare>
4
: valid or existing at all times : timeless <eternal verities>
— eter·nal·ize transitive verb
— eter·nal·ly adverb
— eter·nal·ness noun

(No Metaphysics bullshit)

Lol Denny, nothing in that definition does anything to back up what you said in any way, shape or form. Unless you want to use it metaphorically, which is of course plain useless. Also keep your pants on, I know not having answers to these sort of things can be frustrating, but just remember you can ban me any time you want Censorship FTW!

 

[PapaG]

The universe is NOT eternal.

You saying so doesn't make it so. It makes you wrong.

That's a rather narrow view. Seems as silly to accept that as it does to believe some sort of God created things. How did something come from nothing? That's a huge flaw in the Big Bang theory.

 

[PapaG]

The basketball game started precisely at 7:30 PM. Before that, there was no basketball game in existence. The game clock wasn't at 00:00, it wasn't even turned on.

Your logic fails you.

There were previous basketball games played, and more scheduled for the future. An arena exists, and the game was known to be 'invented' by man.

What an odd analogy.

 

[Denny Crane]

Lol Denny, nothing in that definition does anything to back up what you said in any way, shape or form. Unless you want to use it metaphorically, which is of course plain useless. Also keep your pants on, I know not having answers to these sort of things can be frustrating, but just remember you can ban me any time you want Censorship FTW!

LOL yourself. It doesn't say what you claim it says at all.

 

[Denny Crane]

There were previous basketball games played, and more scheduled for the future. An arena exists, and the game was known to be 'invented' by man.

What an odd analogy.

They don't play the exact same Blazers vs. Spurs game over and over again. Only one at a specific date and time. The game itself has a clock and there is no game "time" before the clock starts or after it ends. It is finite as time actually is.

I get that you don't understand the analogy.

 

[PapaG]

Lol Denny, nothing in that definition does anything to back up what you said in any way, shape or form. Unless you want to use it metaphorically, which is of course plain useless. Also keep your pants on, I know not having answers to these sort of things can be frustrating, but just remember you can ban me any time you want Censorship FTW!

I always get a chuckle from the Evolutionary Fundamentalists who don't realize the lack of intellectual curiosity it takes to blindly accept something for fact that many people still consider to be a hypothesis, let alone a solid and verified theory. It's irony at its finest. They bemoan the faith shown by Creationists, yet don't accept that they have put their own faith into an unproven theory that is full of so many logical holes.

 

[PapaG]

They don't play the exact same Blazers vs. Spurs game over and over again. Only one at a specific date and time. The game itself has a clock and there is no game "time" before the clock starts or after it ends. It is finite as time actually is.

I get that you don't understand the analogy.

No, I don't understand it. You're on one of your wild red herrings at this point, which tends to happen when you can't answer a simple question.

 

[Denny Crane]

I always get a chuckle from the Evolutionary Fundamentalists who don't realize the lack of intellectual curiosity it takes to blindly accept something for fact that many people still consider to be a hypothesis, let alone a solid and verified theory. It's irony at its finest. They bemoan the faith shown by Creationists, yet don't accept that they have put their own faith into an unproven theory that is full of so many logical holes.

You don't know what a scientific theory is.

 

[PapaG]

You don't know what a scientific theory is.

It has something to do with a Blazer basketball game. That's one of the things I've learned from you. The other is that if a hole in a theory is pointed out, well, that isn't a part of the theory. Moving goalposts like that is scientific theory, according to you. And no, I don't subscribe to that approach. I believe in real science, not cockamamie tales of a universe being exploded into existence by some unicorns and spaghetti monsters.

 

[Denny Crane]

It has something to do with a Blazer basketball game. That's one of the things I've learned from you. The other is that if a hole in a theory is pointed out, well, that isn't a part of the theory. Moving goalposts like that is scientific theory, according to you. And no, I don't subscribe to that approach. I believe in real science, not cockamamie tales of a universe being exploded into existence by some unicorns and spaghetti monsters.

You clearly don't know what a scientific theory is. You are intent on arguing about anything else.

 

[PapaG]

FWIW, I'm not the one claiming to know how the universe was created, or such stupid comments as speciation has been observed.

 

[PapaG]

You clearly don't know what a scientific theory is. You are intent on arguing about anything else.

Mock the opposition when your own argument consists of an NBA basketball game. A classic internet tactic.

 

[Denny Crane]

FWIW, I'm not the one claiming to know how the universe was created, or such stupid comments as speciation has been observed.

PapaG:

 

[PapaG]

You're right in one thing. I don't consider "Big Bang" to be a theory, but rather a hypothesis. Calling it a 'theory' is a joke, and shows a lack of understanding in science.

 

[Denny Crane]

You're right in one thing. I don't consider "Big Bang" to be a theory, but rather a hypothesis. Calling it a 'theory' is a joke, and shows a lack of understanding in science.

You show a lack of understanding of the difference between a hypothesis and scientific theory.

Hint: scientific theory carries a different meaning than "theory" in other usages.

 

[PapaG]

You show a lack of understanding of the difference between a hypothesis and scientific theory.

Hint: scientific theory carries a different meaning than "theory" in other usages.

Hint, I know this. You clearly do not.