The Bombings in Israel...

[kobimel]

There have been tons of bombings lately in north Israel, including one that just happened in Haifa...the Arabic and Palestinian terror organizations are bombing at will lately. I was interested to see what some of the guys in other countries feel about this.

 

[Chutney]

You can't take sides in a problem as complex and deeply rooted as this one. Any incident where innocent people are hurt or killed is a travesty. Both sides are committing these atrocities though, which is why I am firmly against the policies/methods of Palestinian terrorist groups and the Israeli government.

 

[deception]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">
I am firmly against the policies/methods of Palestinian terrorist groups and the Israeli government.</div>

terrorists would gladly exchange suicide bombs for F16's any day of the week. there is a question of legitimacy and overstepping the boundaries of what is accepted and not accepted. the US government heightens the tension by the wielding the veto at the secuirty council and their relentless financing of the of harldliners within israel. israel is capable of fending for themselves as demonstrated by the relative ease in which they stomped on their arab neighbours in the six day war without the help of Uncle Sam.

 

[umair]

Man im tired of all these innocent people getting killed in Palestine and Lebanon. Why cant the world be a peace place. And everyone leaves each other alone.

 

[Apollo]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Man im tired of all these innocent people getting killed in Palestine and Israel. Why cant the world be a peace place. And everyone leaves each other alone.</div>
Unfortunally, its never been like that.

 

[deception]

the title of the thread highlights the power disparity in marketing of the conflict if u will. "the bombings in israel" - interesting title since u omit mention of the israeli assault on lebanon.

 

[Shapecity]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">the title of the thread highlights the power disparity in marketing of the conflict if u will. "the bombings in israel" - interesting title since u omit mention of the israeli assault on lebanon.</div>

The original poster is from Israel, I don't think it has anything to do with marketing.

There doesn't seem to be any solution for either side. Both are fighting for their beliefs. Neither side is going to convince the other and they'll eventually reach a treaty, then someone will violate it, and the killing will continue. It's a never ending vicious cycle.

 

[kobimel]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">the title of the thread highlights the power disparity in marketing of the conflict if u will. "the bombings in israel" - interesting title since u omit mention of the israeli assault on lebanon.</div>

first of all, as shape said, it has nothing to do with marketing. 2nd, this thread was posted BEFORE israel hit back, so you should probably check that next time you post an accusation like that.

 

[deception]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobimel:</div><div class="quote_post">first of all, as shape said, it has nothing to do with marketing. 2nd, this thread was posted BEFORE israel hit back, so you should probably check that next time you post an accusation like that.</div>

"israel hit back"... so u don't think occupation equates to provocation?

 

[kobimel]

what occupation are you talking about?

 

[Mamba]

I just want to point out to people, I'm lebanese and I have strong feelings towards this. Mainly, I think Lebanese people are going to be perceived as being wrong here, when in reality, they aren't doing anything. The Lebanese government is weak, very weak. They aren't on their feet. Syria had occupied Lebanon for years, and just recently left. The country is run by terrorists, supported by Iran and Syria. That terrorist group, Hezbollah, is the one bombing Israel. This conflict is going to arise into a much bigger conflict, a war. Syria and Iran are supporting the terrorist group, and eventually they're going to get inolved. That leaves Israel against Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah. No doubt George Bush will get involved, same as Britain. Then, there is always the possibility that North Korea will get involved, because their leader is a wack job. This could very well be the makings of the III world war. This is a very serious issue, one that a lot of young men should be paying attention too.

 

[kobimel]

I agree with everything you just said, theblackmamba. The Lebanese aren't to blaim, it's the Hezbollah who are doing all the bombings. The Lebanese just need to get strong enough to kick the Hezbollah out of their country. Like you said, this could be the beginning of another world war, with the USA, Israel, Britian and maybe even the European Union on one side, and Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, and maybe a couple more Arab nations and N. Korea on the other. But right now, the focus should be on dismantling the Hezbollah, getting them out of Lebanon and getting back the kidnapped soldiers. Then, maybe there'll be a time (whether it'll be short or long is another question) where the Israeli and Lebanese people can live in peace (or close to it).

 

[deception]

the world doesn't revolve around israel as much as the arab or american press like to think. the arab street is largely impoverished- israel could sack it in 7 days, truth be told. most people in the world are something the people in the holy land and 1600 pennsylvania avenue or not- rational. i like most believe the next big war will be fought over resources not ideology. and btw, many intellectuals believe world war 3 already occured in the form of the cold war.

 

[deception]

update- the bombings against targets in lebanon have grown more intense and civilians are drying in larger numbers inclusing 7 canadians ones. 2 israeli soliders held hostage= war.

 

[Chutney]

Yea, the bombings on Lebanon have been anything but measured and careful.

Israel always tends to astound me on how they play these political games when it comes with dealing with terrorist organizations. An Israeli kid who lives on occupied territory was also kidnapped, but he was essentially given up on and got no press. But the kidnapping of a soldier, someone who is bound to be a target of an enemy, raises far more outrage. Again, it just surprises me that a country that continues to play these games is always given the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Mamba]

This is disgusting. Measured and careful my ass...

 

[umair]

Friggin Isreali's need to stop messing with countries..

 

[Mamba]

I can understand them wanting to get their captured soldiers back. Is taking it out on the innocent citizens of Lebanon the right thing to do, because of one terrorist group that runs the country pretty much? No, it's not. If you want your soldiers back, go in and get them. Don't bomb from the outside and kill hundreds of innocent Lebanese people. It's called terrorism, the same thing that Israel is supposedly "fighting."

 

[kobimel]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheBlackMamba:</div><div class="quote_post">I can understand them wanting to get their captured soldiers back. Is taking it out on the innocent citizens of Lebanon the right thing to do, because of one terrorist group that runs the country pretty much? No, it's not. If you want your soldiers back, go in and get them. Don't bomb from the outside and kill hundreds of innocent Lebanese people. It's called terrorism, the same thing that Israel is supposedly "fighting."</div>

I'm not protecting the killing of 100's of Lebanese people, because it's wrong. But, unlike the terrorist groups, the deaths of these people is ACCIDENTAL. Israel's targets are only places related to the Hezbollah. The Hezbollah, on the other hand, are killing innocent people PURPOSELY. You can't look at the number of killed Israelis and compare them the number of killed Lebanese and say "wow, the Israeli's are worse because they're killing more", because the Hezbollah's weapons aren't strong enough to kill hundreds. But, if they did have weapons like fighter planes, the number of dead Israelis would have reached a 1000 by now, most probably. Israel has issued warnings to the Lebanese people to get out of southern Lebanon, because it's dangerous territory, just like northern Israel is right now. This war isn't against the Lebanese people, and Israel isn't "taking it out on the Lebanese". It's a war against the terror that keeps hitting northern Israel. The captured soldiers are only a side dish compared to the fearful lives that the people in northern Israel are living for years now.

 

[MrBigShot_23]

Wow man great to hear from ya. I was worrying about ya cuz you havent got on AIM. Hope things are well in Israel.

 

[Mamba]

Israel always finds a way to justify their acts, always. Their performing acts of terrorism on the innocent lebanese people. There is no difference right now between Israel and Hezbollah.

 

[kobimel]

If you think that, then i guess you don't know much about what's happening right now and about the history of the countries.

 

[Chutney]

Accidental or not, Israel has to take responsibility for these casualties. Unlike these terrorist organizations they target, Israel is a actual country, with a fully formed government and powerful military. They have to be held to a higher standard than Hezbollah, and throughout history they've only stooped to their level.

And, I don't understand all this hype. This won't be WWIII.

 

[kobimel]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Accidental or not, Israel has to take responsibility for these casualties. Unlike these terrorist organizations they target, Israel is a actual country, with a fully formed government and powerful military. They have to be held to a higher standard than Hezbollah, and throughout history they've only stooped to their level.

And, I don't understand all this hype. This won't be WWIII.</div>

I don't know if the country is taking responsibility or not, but it should. Israel is FOR the Lebanese people, not against them, and there's no other way to stop Hezbollah than bombing their main hideouts/HQ/other places, and there are bound to be casualties. Israel is doing it's best to get the Lebanese people out of Lebanon, and so are other countries. Nobody wants them to get hurt, but if they stay, there's a risk that they may die. Sadly, that's what war is like.

 

[Brasco]

Alot of people dont get why israel is going into lebanon if its just a one terrorist organiztion. but imagine if their was a terrorist group based in mexcio that was lauching hundreds of missiles into the states you dont think the us army would go into mexico to try and fight them?

what israel is doing now imo is even way less extreme than what the us did to iraq, iraq didn't even pose a threat to the us and it was invaded. lebanon and hezbollah actually do pose a threat to isreal. obviously civillain casualties suck but there has never been millitary fighting without civillian casualties.

 

[deception]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brasco:</div><div class="quote_post">Alot of people dont get why israel is going into lebanon if its just a one terrorist organiztion. but imagine if their was a terrorist group based in mexcio that was lauching hundreds of missiles into the states you dont think the us army would go into mexico to try and fight them?

what israel is doing now imo is even way less extreme than what the us did to iraq, iraq didn't even pose a threat to the us and it was invaded. lebanon and hezbollah actually do pose a threat to isreal. obviously civillain casualties suck but there has never been millitary fighting without civillian casualties.</div>


there are terrorists in mexico and in greater numbers than iraq+ afghanistan combind. narco traffickers run mexico's informal economy,a sector probably more potent than the formal one. i guess u forgot about americas other war. and yeah these terrorists do a lot more damage than dudes in caves that your government tell great fables about.

 

[Chutney]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobimel:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know if the country is taking responsibility or not, but it should. Israel is FOR the Lebanese people, not against them, and there's no other way to stop Hezbollah than bombing their main hideouts/HQ/other places, and there are bound to be casualties. Israel is doing it's best to get the Lebanese people out of Lebanon, and so are other countries. Nobody wants them to get hurt, but if they stay, there's a risk that they may die. Sadly, that's what war is like.</div>
I think you missed my point. Israel is not working towards long-term peace with these moves. Despite being a strong, healthy, nation, they continue to play into these terrorist organization's hands. Now, I know you think the Hezbollah threat was too large. But, if they are truly eliminated, as Israel wants, it's inevitable that another organization takes its' place. And then they can easily recruit more followers by pointing to these acts of aggression.

And I still don't understand how the kidnapping of two soldiers (people who are bound to be targets for an enemy), warrants the killing of so many innocents. This "war" did not need to be started in the first place.

 

[Mamba]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobimel:</div><div class="quote_post">If you think that, then i guess you don't know much about what's happening right now and about the history of the countries.</div>

Of course you're going to defend your country, but like Chutney said, Israel always stoops to the level of their opposition. They're fighting like terrorists, not a country. Controlled bombing? That's utter bullshit to be honest with you, utter bullshit. They're bombing anything in Hezbollah terrority they can, without regards of innocent civilian lives. Israel, a country, is doing the same thing that Hezbollah, a terrorist organization, is. Put that together, either Hezbollah's acting like a country, or Israel is acting like a terrorist organization.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Accidental or not, Israel has to take responsibility for these casualties. Unlike these terrorist organizations they target, Israel is a actual country, with a fully formed government and powerful military. They have to be held to a higher standard than Hezbollah, and throughout history they've only stooped to their level.

And, I don't understand all this hype. This won't be WWIII.</div>

With all respect, I think you could be wrong. The situation over there is very hostile right now. If Iran wants to provoke the situation any more, they can. Hezbollah is backed by Iran and Syria, both have crazy leaders. I think if Iran makes any offensive against Israel, you'll see the United States and Britain show physical support for Israel. Then, there is always the chance that North Korea gets involved with this. It might not be a World War, but this, in fact, could become a very dangerous situation.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobimel:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know if the country is taking responsibility or not, but it should. Israel is FOR the Lebanese people, not against them, and there's no other way to stop Hezbollah than bombing their main hideouts/HQ/other places, and there are bound to be casualties. Israel is doing it's best to get the Lebanese people out of Lebanon, and so are other countries. Nobody wants them to get hurt, but if they stay, there's a risk that they may die. Sadly, that's what war is like.</div>

For a country that is for the people, they're just bombing away without care. They say they care, but honestly, have the results of their bombing shown that? I know you're going to have your opinions, you're an Israeli, I respect them. I'm going to have my opinions as well, as I'm Lebanese. I just think Israel can be a lot more careful than they are right now.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brasco:</div><div class="quote_post">Alot of people dont get why israel is going into lebanon if its just a one terrorist organiztion. but imagine if their was a terrorist group based in mexcio that was lauching hundreds of missiles into the states you dont think the us army would go into mexico to try and fight them?</div>

For the most part, yes, you're right. But if that situation, Mexico and the U.S. ever did happen, there would be tons more U.S. casualties. The U.S. is far more populated than Israel, and the missiles would be landing in very populated states, California and Texas.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Brasco:</div><div class="quote_post">what israel is doing now imo is even way less extreme than what the us did to iraq, iraq didn't even pose a threat to the us and it was invaded. lebanon and hezbollah actually do pose a threat to isreal. obviously civillain casualties suck but there has never been millitary fighting without civillian casualties.</div>

Hezbollah poses a threat, a minor one when compared to the Israeli army. Lebanon has no power right now, Syria occupied it for years. The country is run by a terrorist group backed by Iran. If anything, Iran poses the biggest threat here. They could decided to stir things up any time they want and go on the offensive against Israel.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deception:</div><div class="quote_post">there are terrorists in mexico and in greater numbers than iraq+ afghanistan combind. narco traffickers run mexico's informal economy,a sector probably more potent than the formal one. i guess u forgot about americas other war. and yeah these terrorists do a lot more damage than dudes in caves that your government tell great fables about.</div>

Narcotics traffickers run more than just the economy down their, they run many government officials. Drug Lords have so much power down there, they can get to anybody or their family. They threaten government police and local police daily into letting them run their drugs, or their whole families will be killed. It's a very ugly situation down there.

Far more damage? Maybe over a period of time. These "dudes" in caves killed approximately 3,000 innocent people in one attack. These "dudes" are very dangerous. They don't strike big like that often, but when they do, it's devestating.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you missed my point. Israel is not working towards long-term peace with these moves. Despite being a strong, healthy, nation, they continue to play into these terrorist organization's hands. Now, I know you think the Hezbollah threat was too large. But, if they are truly eliminated, as Israel wants, it's inevitable that another organization takes its' place. And then they can easily recruit more followers by pointing to these acts of aggression.

And I still don't understand how the kidnapping of two soldiers (people who are bound to be targets for an enemy), warrants the killing of so many innocents. This "war" did not need to be started in the first place.</div>

I agree with this 100%.

 

[M Two One]

I have Israeli in my blood and even I'm sick of the innocent being killed over in Lebanon by these "defensive attacks." There was no need to react in the way Israel did. Negotiations are always a key for attempts to prevent war or death. Instead to save two soldiers' lives Israel have already lost well over five others. Intelligent tactics? Not really. Both sides have their problems and there won't be much of a way to resolve it because of the Religious differences. That's just the way this world is though, the innocent are the ones that always have to suffer before anyone else.

 

[kobimel]

TheBlackMamba: You proved your point, and I respect it. Even though I may not agree with some of the things you said, your argument was a strong one.