The cap and overseas players

[Rastapopoulos]

According to the Portland Tribune:

Pritchard says guard Petteri Koponen of Finland and forward/center Joel Freeland of England, who both played internationally last season, will count against the Blazers’ salary-cap totals next season. No word yet on if either will be with the club during Las Vegas Summer League play.

My question is, why? Frederich Kamminichs, Marcelo Nicola et al don't count against our cap, do they? Is this a roundabout way of saying they're going to be brought over and put on the roster?

 

[BrianFromWA]

first round picks are guaranteed slots.

Unsigned first round picks are included in team salary immediately upon their selection in the draft. They count as 100% of the scale salary for that pick, unless there is a verbal agreement for a higher salary. An incident occurred prior to the 1997-98 season when Vancouver's first round pick, Antonio Daniels, revealed in an interview that he and the team had verbally agreed to a contract starting at the maximum salary (120% of the scale amount). Since verbal agreements apply to the salary cap, the league then changed the team's cap figure from the scale amount to 120% of scale.

Once a first round pick signs a contract, his actual salary is included in the team salary, of course.

If a first round pick signs instead with a non-NBA team, his scale amount is excluded from the team salary on the date he signs his non-NBA contract or the first day of the regular season, whichever is later. The scale amount goes back onto the team salary on the following July 1 or when his non-NBA contract ends, whichever is earlier. In other words, these cap holds are removed for players playing outside the NBA, but only during the regular season.

Unsigned second round picks are not included in team salary. This is a loophole that Houston once tried to use by trading a first round pick for a second round pick in order to clear cap room.

As described in question number 71, the trade value of an unsigned first or second round draft pick is always $0.

from Coon.
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q43

 

[Mediocre Man]

Only first round picks Rasta. Every 1st round pick gets you a cap hold of their slotted salary.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

first round picks are guaranteed slots.

So? I'm pretty sure Fran Vasquez doesn't count against the Magic's cap, and Frederic Weis never counted against the Knicks' did he? (Did he?)

[Edit: ooh - you edited! Here's the relevant part:

If a first round pick signs instead with a non-NBA team, his scale amount is excluded from the team salary on the date he signs his non-NBA contract or the first day of the regular season, whichever is later. The scale amount goes back onto the team salary on the following July 1 or when his non-NBA contract ends, whichever is earlier. In other words, these cap holds are removed for players playing outside the NBA, but only during the regular season.

But then, that would seem to suggest either that Koponen and Freeland have counted against the cap since last July (because that was the "following July 1") or that they only count against the cap in the offseason (second bolded section).

Huh? Still confused.]

 

[Boob-No-More]

But then, that would seem to suggest either that Koponen and Freeland have counted against the cap since last July (because that was the "following July 1") or that they only count against the cap in the offseason (second bolded section).

Huh? Still confused.]

They very well may have counted against the Blazers' cap space last summer - but it wouldn't have mattered as the Blazers were over the cap anyway. This July 1, it matters as the Blazers will be under the cap. So, the cap holds of both Koponen and Freeland will eat into our cap space. Since both were picked 30th, their cap holds will each be in the $750K - $825K range. Also, since the cap holds on unsigned 1st round picks only apply during the summer months, they only impact the cap, not the luxury tax.

Here's the part that has me confused: Will their rookie salaries (and cap holds) be based on the rookie pay scale for the year they were drafted, or for their actual rookie seasons. Freeland was drafted 30th in 2006. According to the NBA Player's Association, the rookie scale salary (+/- 20%) for the 30th pick for the 2006-07 season was $744.4K. Koponen was selected 30th in the 2007 draft. The slotted rookie salary for a 30th pick during the 2007-08 season was $771.0K. The slotted rookie salary fr a 30th pick for the 2009-10 season will be $824.2K.

So, for cap purposes, will Freeland's cap hold be $744.4K and Koponen's be $771.0K (total = $1.5154 million) or will they both be $824.2K ($1.6484 million). I know the difference is small (less than $150K), but I'm just curious which scale amounts are used for calculating the cap holds, and eventually these players maximum rookie salaries.

BNM

 

[RR7]

they only count against the cap in the offseason (second bolded section).

Huh? Still confused.]

This is correct. They count against the cap in the offseason.

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/08-09salaries.htm

If you look at Orlando's salary on this site, it shows the cap hold for Fran Vasquez. Basically, every July 1st, when the new salaries come into effect, all first round picks have a hold for their salary amount on their teams' cap. Most teams, it doesn't affect, because they are over the cap.

 

[Boob-No-More]

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/08-09salaries.htm

This answers my question about the cap holds for Freeland and Koponen. He lists them both at $824.2K. So, the cap hold (and subsequent rookie pay) is based on the current year, not the year they were drafted.

So, how many years do unsigned 1st round picks continue to count against the team's cap? I suppose for as long as the team that drafted them hold's their NBA rights. Is there any way a team can renounce those rights. Say, if it continues to be obvious that Vasquez will never play for the Magic, can they simply renounce their rights to him and get him off their books? Vasquez was drafted 4 years ago, and he continues to count against their cap space for the next five years. He screwed the Magic big time when he reneged and returned to play in Spain. Now he continues to screw them out of cap space every summer.

BNM

 

[RickyRubio]

Vasquez was drafted 4 years ago, and he continues to count against their cap space for the next five years. He screwed the Magic big time when he reneged and returned to play in Spain. Now he continues to screw them out of cap space every summer.

BNM

Wait, what??!? He is going to be on their books for a total of 9 years?!??! How does that make any sense?

 

[BrianFromWA]

He's signed with FC Barcelona through 2011 (from Wikipedia), so every summer between now and July 2011 his updated 11th-pick-salary will count against the Magic cap. Then when the season starts, it is removed.

If a first round pick signs instead with a non-NBA team, his scale amount is excluded from the team salary on the date he signs his non-NBA contract or the first day of the regular season, whichever is later. The scale amount goes back onto the team salary on the following July 1 or when his non-NBA contract ends, whichever is earlier. In other words, these cap holds are removed for players playing outside the NBA, but only during the regular season.

Coon's FAQ

Interestingly, if the Magic renounce him he's a free agent, and has no salary restrictions. So, if for instance ORL was going to trade him to us, it would be better for us (if the buyout thing is a problem) for ORL to renounce him and allow us to sign him as a free agent. That's risky, though. Or they could trade us his rights, and he's stuck at the 120% of $1.716M as his max salary.