The Chauncey Billups thread

[Tince]

Peak Chauncey >>>> Peak Stotts imo.

Certainly is possible, but what tangible things make you think that?

We've seen elite PGs with great playing IQ become bad coaches (Jason Kidd). So what have we seen in his year in LA and this season that makes you think he's going to be a well above average coach?

 

[wizenheimer]

Holiday gave Lillard nightmares that series.

so did Rondo & Hill...and so did AD and Mirotic when they blitzed every single screen and pick involving Dame. They had nearly the optimum roster to take Dame out of the series

and what that series glaringly showed is that CJ wasn't good enough to carry the Blazers when Dame was being blitzed. He had a great series scoring and shooting, in part because the Pels single-covered him with weak defenders. But CJ's offense didn't make the Pels hesitate one second on their stop-Dame defense. And it didn't get the Blazers a single win.

yet, Olshey doubled down 4 more seasons on the bet that somehow Dame/CJ could make for a contender when every other contender for years majored in two-way wings

 

[Orion Bailey]

so did Rondo & Hill...and so did AD and Mirotic when they blitzed every single screen and pick involving Dame. They had nearly the optimum roster to take Dame out of the series

and what that series glaringly showed is that CJ wasn't good enough to carry the Blazers when Dame was being blitzed. He had a great series scoring and shooting, in part because the Pels single-covered him with weak defenders. But CJ's offense didn't make the Pels hesitate one second on their stop-Dame defense. And it didn't get the Blazers a single win.

yet, Olshey doubled down 4 more seasons on the bet that somehow Dame/CJ could make for a contender when every other contender for years majored in two-way wings

i agree with everything but your last sentance. He was trying to immulate gsw. Who won before kd got there.

 

[Phatguysrule]

i agree with everything but your last sentance. He was trying to immulate gsw. Who won before kd got there.

And man, he failed miserably. Golden State had a great offensive small guard (with good defense, all star/mvp), a huge 2 way guard (all star), the best defensive forward in the game (all star) and a great defensive team built around them.

We had... Dame.

 

[Orion Bailey]

And man, he failed miserably. Golden State had a great offensive small guard (with good defense, all star/mvp), a huge 2 way guard (all star), the best defensive forward in the game (all star) and a great defensive team built around them.

We had... Dame.

oh i agree. Im just saying there were contenders without the 2way wing stud.

 

[Phatguysrule]

oh i agree. Im just saying there were contenders without the 2way wing stud.

But wasn't that Klay Thompson, Draymond, and Andre Iguadala? Draymond isn't a great shooter, but his offensive contribution is significant.

 

[Haakzilla]

i agree with everything but your last sentance. He was trying to immulate gsw. Who won before kd got there.

...no he wasn't, if N.O. was trying emulate GSW then he would have traded Monta Ellis 2.0 aka MeJ the following year. That's how GSW became what they are today.

 

[wizenheimer]

oh i agree. Im just saying there were contenders without the 2way wing stud.

who?....the Warriors had Klay and Draymond, plus Barnes, Iggy & Livingston; then they added Durant

the Raptors had Kawhi and Siakam. Miami had Lebron (and Dwade); Cleveland and the Lakers had Lebron, and AD spends a lot of time playing like a wing. The Bulls had Jordan and Pippen. Even if you back track to the Spurs because of Duncan and Parker, they still had, at various times, wings like Sean Elliot, Mario Ellie, Manu, Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry, and Danny Green

the Suns are a contender with Booker, Bridges, Crowder, and Johnson. Milwaukee won last season with Giannis, Middleton, and Holiday. It sure seems to be the championship formula that survives the test of time

maybe you could point at Utah with Mitchell and Conley. But they do have Bogdonovic and Ingles. And they look like a team built for the regular season, not the playoffs. Kind of like the Blazers

Portland was a little closer to the formula when they had Matthews and Batum. But neither of those guys was anywhere close to elite on either end of the floor. And it's pretty clear by now if a team is settling for wings at the level Batum/RoCo they are going nowhere; pretenders at best

 

[Orion Bailey]

But wasn't that Klay Thompson, Draymond, and Andre Iguadala? Draymond isn't a great shooter, but his offensive contribution is significant.

Yea but they arent the superstar wing that was eluded all contenders have had.

...no he wasn't, if N.O. was trying emulate GSW then he would have traded Monta Ellis 2.0 aka MeJ the following year. That's how GSW became what they are today.

Hence, why he failed.

 

[Orion Bailey]

who?....the Warriors had Klay and Draymond, plus Barnes, Iggy & Livingston; then they added Durant

the Raptors had Kawhi and Siakam. Miami had Lebron (and Dwade); Cleveland and the Lakers had Lebron, and AD spends a lot of time playing like a wing. The Bulls had Jordan and Pippen. Even if you back track to the Spurs because of Duncan and Parker, they still had, at various times, wings like Sean Elliot, Mario Ellie, Manu, Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry, and Danny Green

the Suns are a contender with Booker, Bridges, Crowder, and Johnson. Milwaukee won last season with Giannis, Middleton, and Holiday. It sure seems to be the championship formula that survives the test of time

maybe you could point at Utah with Mitchell and Conley. But they do have Bogdonovic and Ingles. And they look like a team built for the regular season, not the playoffs. Kind of like the Blazers

Portland was a little closer to the formula when they had Matthews and Batum. But neither of those guys was anywhere close to elite on either end of the floor. And it's pretty clear by now if a team is settling for wings at the level Batum/RoCo they are going nowhere; pretenders at best

you said majored in two way wings. Gsw didnt major in that. They majored it the best back court in history. Those were thier best players. They found good 2 way wings to compliment them. But they werent the major part of the team, if thats what you were saying?

That's all IM saying.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Peak Chauncey >>>> Peak Stotts imo.

Have you seen anything that might assume "Peak" anything? Stotts was way better at this point. You must agree with that? Give him a chance sure but he has done absolutely nothing to match what Stotts did here YET.

 

[wizenheimer]

you said majored in two way wings. Gsw didnt major in that. They majored it the best back court in history. Those were thier best players. They found good 2 way wings to compliment them. But they werent the major part of the team, if thats what you were saying?

That's all IM saying.

as I said, the year they won the title without Durant, they had 5 rotation players in the 6'6-6'9 range: Klay, Draymond, Barnes, Iggy, and Livingston. They went with a 7 man rotation in the playoffs, and 5 of the 7 were those wing-type players. That's 71% of their playoff rotation invested in 6'6-6'9 players. That is most definitely majoring in wings



meanwhile, the Blazers have half of their rotation under 6'4 and 43% of their roster

 

[Phatguysrule]

you said majored in two way wings. Gsw didnt major in that. They majored it the best back court in history. Those were thier best players. They found good 2 way wings to compliment them. But they werent the major part of the team, if thats what you were saying?

That's all IM saying.

Iggy, Draymond, Barnes, Klay are all better 2 way wings than Dame has ever played with.

 

[THE HCP]

Peak Chauncey >>>> Peak Stotts imo.

LINK?

 

[THE HCP]

Iggy, Draymond, Barnes, Klay are all better 2 way wings than Dame has ever played with.

Did that dude say Draymond wasn’t a major part of their team’s success!!!???

 

[Phatguysrule]

Did that dude say Draymond wasn’t a major part of their team’s success!!!???

He said something to the effect that 2 way wings weren't a major part of their success...

 

[Orion Bailey]

Did that dude say Draymond wasn’t a major part of their team’s success!!!???

No. That isn't what I said. Don't put words in my mouth unless you want to.. "every fucking day"...it....

 

[Orion Bailey]

Iggy, Draymond, Barnes, Klay are all better 2 way wings than Dame has ever played with.

No one is disputing that.

I thought at first he was implying that GSW was more built around their two way wings vs their backcourt. He clarified, I understand what he meant now.

I was only disputing that, unlike other contenders, it was GSW's backcourt leading the way, not the wing players.

 

[Orion Bailey]

He said something to the effect that 2 way wings weren't a major part of their success...

No, NO I didnt at all. Hyperbole.....

You guys are funny how you run with shit though....

 

[Phatguysrule]

No, NO I didnt at all. Hyperbole.....

You guys are funny how you run with shit though....

you said majored in two way wings. Gsw didnt major in that. They majored it the best back court in history. Those were thier best players. They found good 2 way wings to compliment them. But they werent the major part of the team, if thats what you were saying?

That's all IM saying.

They had a great backcourt before they got the great wings. And half of that back court is a great 2 way wing.

They aren't winning championships without great 2 way wings.

 

[Orion Bailey]

They had a great backcourt before they got the great wings. And half of that back court is a great 2 way wing.

They aren't winning championships without great 2 way wings.

Who says? They won with good wings before they got a great one in KD.

But they weren't built around their wings, which was all I was originally disputing. Nothing more, nothing less.

You can read more into it if you want, but im moving on.

 

[riverman]

Chauncey simply has a huge learning curve....he can't get caught watching the game when he needs to be coaching the game....he needs better endgame plans from everything I've seen...you have to have talent to win in this league and when you get talent you need to put them in a position to succeed....Chauncey is struggling with the endgame and not great at keeping fresh legs on the court....he needs to stop opposing teams runs when they get up 6...not up by 12....in a close game Popovich would call a timeout if the other team got up two possessions...Chauncey is waiting until they have double digit runs.....that needs to change...also this ball movement idea only works if you have some zip on a pass and the guy can catch it....and if I coached these guys would be shooting a thousand freethrows at practice...we went from a great free throw team to a team you want to foul.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Who says? They won with good wings before they got a great one in KD.

But they weren't built around their wings, which was all I was originally disputing. Nothing more, nothing less.

You can read more into it if you want, but im moving on.

Agian, Klay and Draymond are both great 2 way wings. They would have no championships without them. And their backups were better than any wing we've had since Brandon Roy, and even then they are all better defenders than Roy was.

That's what made them better. They are a great team because of their defense. That comes from their wings.

They are elite because they have that, and also have one of the best scoring guards in the history of the NBA.

It's important that we give those wings the credit they deserve. They allow Curry to be great.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

I don't know if it means something, but in his first season as a HC in Portland Stotts was 33-49 (17-15 at this point).
He had LaLiar, Batum, Wes, Barton and 1st year Lillard. It is not really bad S5.
Team collapsed after ASG and I don't remember why.
Also, there was no Vanterpool on the bench.
What he had was some years of exp.
What was his rep on the forum after first season I wonder.

We lost our last 13 games because Aldridge sat out IIRC.

 

[Hoopguru]

Agian, Klay and Draymond are both great 2 way wings. They would have no championships without them. And their backups were better than any wing we've had since Brandon Roy, and even then they are all better defenders than Roy was.

That's what made them better. They are a great team because of their defense. That comes from their wings.

They are elite because they have that, and also have one of the best scoring guards in the history of the NBA.

It's important that we give those wings the credit they deserve. They allow Curry to be great.

GS was the best at getting hands on the ball. No player could go into the paint w/o Warrior hands all over the place.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Agian, Klay and Draymond are both great 2 way wings. They would have no championships without them. And their backups were better than any wing we've had since Brandon Roy, and even then they are all better defenders than Roy was.

That's what made them better. They are a great team because of their defense. That comes from their wings.

They are elite because they have that, and also have one of the best scoring guards in the history of the NBA.

It's important that we give those wings the credit they deserve. They allow Curry to be great.

Klay is a wing? I thought that was small and power forward?

Ive already stated Klay was part og the backcourt. Iggy and dray were the wings. Not Klay. Good better than average wings, but neither close to the caliber of s great wing in KD.

Again. Gsw was built around their backcourt which is steph and Klay. Not thier wings.

Fact.

 

[Phatguysrule]

GS was the best at getting hands on the ball. No player could go into the paint w/o Warrior hands all over the place.

Exactly. Their defense doesn't get nearly enough credit.

 

[Hoopguru]

Klay is a wing? I thought that was small and power forward?

Ive already stated Klay was part og the backcourt. Iggy and dray were the wings. Not Klay. Good better than average wings, but neither close to the caliber of s great wing in KD.

Again. Gsw was built around their backcourt which is steph and Klay. Not thier wings.

Fact.

Yeah, seem's like all positions are wings anymore rather than PG, Off Guard, SF & PF

 

[Phatguysrule]

Klay is a wing? I thought rhat was small and power forward?

Ive already stated Klay was part og the backcourt. Iggy and dray were the wings. Not Klay. Good better than average wings, but neither close to the caliber of s great wing in KD.

Again. Gsw was built around their backcourt which is steph and Klay. Not thier wings.

Fact.

2s and 3s are wings. A stretch 4 can be a wing as well. Draymond is a unique player in that he is a wing as a creator in the offense and often defends wings as well, so that's why I included him as a wing.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Yeah, seem's like all positions are wings anymore rather than PG, Off Guard, SF & BF

Can be, for sure. Really just PG and center. But really the argument can be made that even Steph is as much of a wing as he is a PG.

But he's short and defends PG, so he's not considered a wing.

Which further supports the idea that the team is absolutely LOADED with wings.