Event The coming trade war (1 Viewer)

[Denny Crane]

Better to not do anything than to do the wrong thing.

The China issue is real and needs to be addressed but what we need is a precision rifle and not a scatter gun.

Seen enough of doing nothing. That's not worked at all.

 

[Denny Crane]

This will confuse barfo even further.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...kely_allies_on_trade_--_democrats_136468.html

Trump's Unlikely Allies on Trade -- Democrats

 

[Denny Crane]

Koch brother alert. Hair on fire! Bogeyman!


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...iffs-free-trade-essential-american-prosperity

Charles Koch Slams Trump And Tariffs: "Free Trade Is Essential To American Prosperity"

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

Anything the Koch brothers are for I’m pretty much automatically against. It might be overreactionary but it’s worked so far.......

 

[MarAzul]

I just can't see these opinions on tariffs being good or bad as if you could create and axiom.
Free trade helps keep prices down. This is true
We do not have free trade now. Only in our take in. Out from the US is restricted all over the place.
Free trade is not good for everyone in our population. Individuals and groups of people often pay a price.

It also seems to me there are other priorities as a Nation more important than Free trade as a policy.
Having resources to defend ourselves is on the top of this list, aluminum would be on top of that list. Steel also.
Have a domestic food supply adequate to feed our population must always be maintained and protected.
Medicine would be on the same list.
...

I shall wait and see what the President negotiates. His predecessors did it very poorly.

 

[Denny Crane]

https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/tariff-act-1789

 

[barfo]

I just can't see these opinions on tariffs being good or bad as if you could create and axiom.
Free trade helps keep prices down. This is true
We do not have free trade now. Only in our take in. Out from the US is restricted all over the place.
Free trade is not good for everyone in our population. Individuals and groups of people often pay a price.

It also seems to me there are other priorities as a Nation more important than Free trade as a policy.
Having resources to defend ourselves is on the top of this list, aluminum would be on top of that list. Steel also.
Have a domestic food supply adequate to feed our population must always be maintained and protected.
Medicine would be on the same list.
...

I shall wait and see what the President negotiates. His predecessors did it very poorly.

I agree with you on most of this, but not quite all.

It is not the case the US imposes no trade restrictions now - in fact there are lots.

And I'm not sure that past administrations negotiated trade poorly - the relative wealth and robustness of our economy suggest that things weren't done too badly. Of course it's always possible to do better, but it's also possible to do worse, as we are likely about to observe.

Finally, having enough steel and aluminum resources to fight a war would only be a problem if we went to war against Canada.

barfo

 

[andalusian]

Took a military hop from DC to VA on an old DC3. The thing looked like it should have been used for spare parts. Nylon mesh seats and all. The thing was not running well when we boarded and of course the weather was stormy so you know we had to lose an engine and limp in. I have been on fifty year old float planes, landed on mud puddles where wing tips serve as brakes, but that DC3 scared the shit out of me, swear to God, the landing was dancing on the chalk of being a crash. Get off the plane om the far end of the runway, and their are emergency vehicles and a tow rig to pull the plane. About ten of us standing around stunned, and the pilot says, meh, standard ops when we lose an engine.

Needless to say we all went for a drink.

IIRC, The DC3 was C-47 in military form. Took plenty of flights on these in the past. Was usually so tired that I only experienced the take-off and landing (or usually after the landing) - they are certainly not luxurious. Heck, they made a C-130 seem like a Cadillac (and I hated flying in those).

Got to see an old C-47 flying recently in Palm Springs. Pretty happy did not have to be on-board. To be fair however, all the DC-3 / C-47 pilots I knew loved flying them.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

IIRC, The DC3 was C-47 in military form. Took plenty of flights on these in the past. Was usually so tired that I only experienced the take-off and landing (or usually after the landing) - they are certainly not luxurious. Heck, they made a C-130 seem like a Cadillac (and I hated flying in those).

Got to see an old C-47 flying recently in Palm Springs. Pretty happy did not have to be on-board. To be fair however, all the DC-3 / C-47 pilots I knew loved flying them.

I got to thinking about that C130 flight, it was the las little hop that started with a four place float plane off a little island in the Aleutians at a remote LORAN Station. Caught a Beaver out of Adak to Ketchikan. 707 to Ancorage. Caught a hop on a cargo plan, cant remember what it was..had four rotary engines..jeesh, slept on that leg to McCord. Military 727 to SF. Then a commercial non stop to DC that I snoozed all the way. The C130 was supposed to be the easy part...hahaha. All this because one of the brass said "Get him here" . Crazy stuff.

 

[Lanny]

I flew into Danang for my first tour in one of those pregnant belly cargo planes out of Subic Bay....with the nylon mesh seats....missles rolling back and forth on the ceiling the whole way there....arrived in Danang under mortar attack in my Navy whites scared shitless.....remember drinking a coca cola out of a rusty can luke warm while waiting for a Huey to take me out to the command ship.....

I spent most of my time in Danang and some of that was near the top of Monkey Mountain. I was there in '68 when the enemy was trying to take Danang. Dive bombers were flying low over our heads. 50 cals were firing tracers nearby. I was too young and too stupid to be sufficiently afraid. What an idiot.

 

[Denny Crane]

Trump signs order, S&P 500 up .5% (that's a lot)

 

[BrianFromWA]

I've frozen my butt off in a c130 flying Annapolis-C.Springs, and from Kabul to Bagram. When I left from Kandahar it was on a C-17 they'd thrown a bank of seats into. They said anyone who wanted to ride the cargo net could Space A it. Hells yeah, Freedom Bird.

 

[speeds]

Canada and Mexico granted exemptions.

 

[Denny Crane]

Seems like as good a place as any.

Trump may actually EARN a Nobel Peace Prize. If the US ends up with a deal with N Korea that eliminates their nuclear program.

The last president was AWARDED such a prize, but oddly, within weeks he was bombing 6 countries, 4 of which we weren't bombing before his presidency.

I'd think Trump would share his prize with the S Korean president, FWIW.

Given the last president's award, it wouldn't surprise me if Trump couldn't win it, no matter what he did.

 

[MarAzul]

Trump couldn't win it, no matter what he did.

Naw Trump isn't going to win a damn thing. But stuff is moving.

Wow, perhaps a NAFTA deal that actually is helpful?
Man, I can only hope for and end to 70 years of warfare with NK.
Peace Prizes don't me zip compared with this stuff.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Further]

Trump signs order, S&P 500 up .5% (that's a lot)

Thoughts today?

 

[riverman]

Thoughts today?

US farmers are going to get hurt by the trade wars as much as anyone...that never ends well.....China will now get a firm foothold in Latin American and African trade...places like Mexico and Canada will open their doors wide open to Chinese business replacing our exports in short time

 

[Further]

Seems Trum

US farmers are going to get hurt by the trade wars as much as anyone...that never ends well.....China will now get a firm foothold in Latin American and African trade...places like Mexico and Canada will open their doors wide open to Chinese business replacing our exports in short time

speaking strictly from a market point of view, the tax cuts were very beneficial. The problem is (according to an interview of an economist I heard on my drive today) that before the tax cuts there was so much economic hope in the markets that they could absorb any Trump eccentricities. But now that the cuts have been realized and the markets are built on future predictions there is much more uncertainty and now anything Trump says will be magnified in the markets, both good and bad. With the Chinese tariffs and new possible other tariffs and with Trumps attacks on Amazon the results are magnified.

 

[Orion Bailey]

One of the problems with the stuff coming from China is the lack of meeting specs in a consistent way. Like schedule 80 SS pipe, it must meet a pressure carrying psi capacity. So they ship us stuff marked 316L SS but it fails the psi test, so they just re designate it Schedule 40. Well shit it is way too heavy then and lacks the volume capacity in practical usage but it meet specification. Sold way below cost in pounds of steel, sold at a discount. I got one of these section without knowing until I went to actually cut it up and use it. Then I figured it out, what the hell? This is schedule 80 where I needed 40.

You arent making sense. SCH80SS is stainless steel. Are you saying they reclassify it as 316?

A mill cant reclassify SCH80 to SCH40, because that has nothing to do with going from 304 to 316. Those are Alloy specs. SCH80 and 40 are the thickness.

SCH80 and SCH40 can come in both 304 or 316.

What you are referring to is the wall thickness of the material you are buying. The thicker the wall the more PSI it can handle. I never ever heard or seen a mill taking SCH80 and reclassifying it as SCH40, because then it would not have the ID to match up to existing projects. One of the reasons you avoid buying from a mill and you buy from a supplier.

MArzy, hit me up if you have questions about suppliers. I know them all up here and most down in Cali as well. I can steer you in the right direction for whatever your needs are.

 

[MarAzul]

What you are referring to is the wall thickness of the material you are buying.

I know this. And this is exactly what I am talking about. Bought a 20' section of 316L Schedule 40 pipe from Englund Supply a few years back. Did not realize it was actually Schedule 80 pipe
until I went to use it. Well, like you say, the ID is too small. for some uses but it does meet specs for pipe as the pressure requied for Schedule 40. This is exactly what happened.
No way can you change the Chromium content, but they did it for the PSI, 80 to 40. It did not work for me because of weight and ID.

But that is the sort of shinaigans that happens with some of the imports where the supplier is not watching. I am surprised I hauled it all the way to my shop before I discovered the mismatch.
Can't remember, but I suppose I let them load it on my trailer, and I dumped it off. I think it was nearly a month later that I noticed what I had. When we chased it down as to what actually happened, their invoice on their order does not say SCH40 pipe, it says 314L pipe meets schedule 40 specs. Schedule 40 specs is non specific on ID, only specific on PSI. So Englunds was duped and passed it on to me. As you know, only the OD is consistant with pipe, regardless of the Schedule 10,20,40, or 80.

"MArzy, hit me up if you have questions about suppliers."

Thanks, it might happen. You never know what is next.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I know this. And this is exactly what I am talking about. Bought a 20' section of 316L Schedule 40 pipe from Englund Supply a few years back. Did not realize it was actually Schedule 80 pipe
until I went to use it. Well, like you say, the ID is too small. for some uses but it does meet specs for pipe as the pressure requied for Schedule 40. This is exactly what happened.
No way can you change the Chromium content, but they did it for the PSI, 80 to 40. It did not work for me because of weight and ID.

But that is the sort of shinaigans that happens with some of the imports where the supplier is not watching. I am surprised I hauled it all the way to my shop before I discovered the mismatch.
Can't remember, but I suppose I let them load it on my trailer, and I dumped it off. I think it was nearly a month later that I noticed what I had. When we chased it down as to what actually happened, their invoice on their order does not say SCH40 pipe, it says 314L pipe meets schedule 40 specs. Schedule 40 specs is non specific on ID, only specific on PSI. So Englunds was duped and passed it on to me. As you know, only the OD is consistant with pipe, regardless of the Schedule 10,20,40, or 80.

"MArzy, hit me up if you have questions about suppliers."

Thanks, it might happen. You never know what is next.

Thats a vendor issue. They should know better.

Mills are well known for not caring and having sloppy trace ability. But all vendors know how the mills work. I would blast a customer for trying to give me that when their paperwork reads SS.
I deal with pretty good vendors overall and can lead you in the right direction on a more dependable vendor. Might not be the cheapest around, but you know the rules... you get what you pay for.

 

[MarAzul]

you get what you pay for.

Perhaps, I really never had an issue with Englund supply before, and since they deal with such a broad range of products, much more than steel, I don't doubt they were duped. There was no issue in me returning the item. Just letting everyone know the sort of shit the import stuff comes with.
I got the peace I needed even less costly since schedule 20 would cover my need just fine, well even better. I hauled it down with the next load of metals I loaded up at Alaska Brass & Copper. Checked each friggin piece though.

 

[MarAzul]

@Orion Bailey where do you work? If you would rather not say, I understand.

 

[Orion Bailey]

@Orion Bailey where do you work? If you would rather not say, I understand.

I work for an elite structural steel bending company but we do more.

Check us out.
www.albinaco.com

I bet I could purchase materials for you at a far better rate than you are getting if you are purchasing for personal use only and not going through a company with an account and discount.

 

[MarAzul]

I work for an elite structural steel bending company but we do more.

Check us out.
www.albinaco.com

I bet I could purchase materials for you at a far better rate than you are getting if you are purchasing for personal use only and not going through a company with an account and discount.

Good to know. Thank you.

 

[Lanny]

I've frozen my butt off in a c130 flying Annapolis-C.Springs, and from Kabul to Bagram. When I left from Kandahar it was on a C-17 they'd thrown a bank of seats into. They said anyone who wanted to ride the cargo net could Space A it. Hells yeah, Freedom Bird.

Try flying from Cam Rhan Bay to Da Nang with antiaircraft fire being directed at you.

 

[Lanny]

Seems Trum

speaking strictly from a market point of view, the tax cuts were very beneficial. The problem is (according to an interview of an economist I heard on my drive today) that before the tax cuts there was so much economic hope in the markets that they could absorb any Trump eccentricities. But now that the cuts have been realized and the markets are built on future predictions there is much more uncertainty and now anything Trump says will be magnified in the markets, both good and bad. With the Chinese tariffs and new possible other tariffs and with Trumps attacks on Amazon the results are magnified.

The tariffs have not yet gone into effect. They are in an open comment mode right now. Just saw that on tonight's PBS news.

 

[Lanny]

He's the king of the idiots.

Yes, China is stealing our intellectual property but this is not the way to respond.

 

[Lanny]

Seems like as good a place as any.

Trump may actually EARN a Nobel Peace Prize. If the US ends up with a deal with N Korea that eliminates their nuclear program.

The last president was AWARDED such a prize, but oddly, within weeks he was bombing 6 countries, 4 of which we weren't bombing before his presidency.

I'd think Trump would share his prize with the S Korean president, FWIW.

Given the last president's award, it wouldn't surprise me if Trump couldn't win it, no matter what he did.

Not sure which six countries you're referring to but I'm sure that at least four of those countries were committing atrocities.

Now, it seems you're implying that Trump would deserve a Nobel prize for doing something that other Presidents have been trying to do and which Trump was saying was all terribly wrong to attempt doing. He even ridiculed his own Secretary of State for attempting to engage in dialogue with N. Korea. This guy flip flops with the weather.