The Cops outside the RG stopped us from chanting

[MARIS61]

Give me anything you'd like to express. Anything.

I will come up with four circumstances where you can be legally and justifiably shut up... right off the top of my head.

Ed O.

We already have one: shouting LA SUCKS on my way to my car after a Blazers/Lakers game at the Rose Garden.

I absolutely guarantee my arrest would not hold up through appeal to the Supreme Court and my suit for false arrest would also prevail in the end.

You can twist the facts and add in what-ifs to change the circumstances, but the situation as described screams of police abuse of power, which is a known trademark of the Portland Police Dept.

That's how they roll.

 

[MARIS61]

Give me anything you'd like to express. Anything.

I will come up with four circumstances where you can be legally and justifiably shut up... right off the top of my head.

Ed O.

legally and justifiably = 2 separate things, both a matter of opinion.

You are born into this world absolutely Free.

You lose whatever rights you concede, whether by cowardice or convenience.

 

[Ed O]

We already have one: shouting LA SUCKS on my way to my car after a Blazers/Lakers game at the Rose Garden.

I absolutely guarantee my arrest would not hold up through appeal to the Supreme Court and my suit for false arrest would also prevail in the end.

You can twist the facts and add in what-ifs to change the circumstances, but the situation as described screams of police abuse of power, which is a known trademark of the Portland Police Dept.

That's how they roll.

Don't change the subject.

I said there are no absolute rights. You said that there are.

There is no absolute right to say "LA Sucks" wherever and whenever one wants.

If you want to limit your argument to the fact pattern of last night, that's cool. You can't use your opinion on one situation and create "absolute rights".

Ed O.

 

[barfo]

Give me anything you'd like to express. Anything.

I will come up with four circumstances where you can be legally and justifiably shut up... right off the top of my head.

Ed O.

How about "my head hurts."

barfo

 

[Ed O]

legally and justifiably = 2 separate things,

That's why I used both. I didn't repeat myself with synonyms for emphasis or rhetorical effect.

both a matter of opinion.

"Legal" not a totally subjective matter. Of course law is applied by gatekeepers (police) and often decided by judges. It's not up to each citizen to determine her own legality.

You are born into this world absolutely Free.

You lose whatever rights you concede, whether by cowardice or convenience.

That is super-cheesy and pretty worthless.

Ed O.

 

[Minstrel]

I have to agree, "preemptively preventing" a possible scenario is not an excuse to infringe on a constitutional right.

Why do you put "preemptively preventing" in quotation marks, as though it's a silly and contradictory idea, like "preemptive vengence?" Prevention only can be done "preemptively." That's what prevention is...you can't retroactively prevent something, after that fact. It has to be done before the fact.

I wasn't there, so I have no idea whether this prevention was justified. If there really were fights breaking out, preventing people from goading more fights is perfectly reasonable.

 

[Entity]

Why do you put "preemptively preventing" in quotation marks, as though it's a silly and contradictory idea, like "preemptive vengence?" Prevention only can be done "preemptively." That's what prevention is...you can't retroactively prevent something, after that fact. It has to be done before the fact.

I wasn't there, so I have no idea whether this prevention was justified. If there really were fights breaking out, preventing people from goading more fights is perfectly reasonable.

It might have sounded redundant, but I was trying to say "preventing situations where there may not have been a situation at all." I think of preemptive as cutting out any possibility before a conflict is developing. It's a word I personally only use to indicate possible excessiveness when modifying an otherwise normal verb like prevent. I know excessiveness isn't attached to the true definition of the word, but that's just how I use it, which is why I put it in quotes.

I wasn't there either, so while I can't judge the situation itself, I can judge the arguments that are presented about the subject in general, of an officer telling someone to not say something if there wasn't someone else looking to get involved in a conflict with them. If there were about to be fights, then I'm not bothered by them telling them to calm down. If not, then I just see it as an officer saying "guys, make my job easier."

 

[Tince]

2 Question:

1) Does your freedom of speech hold true on private property or can someone have your removed from their property for what they feel is stirring up trouble?

2) Is the Rose Quarter considered private property?

I'm seriously asking because I slept through my American Government class in high school

 

[Entity]

1) Does your freedom of speech hold true on private property or can someone have your removed from their property for what they feel is stirring up trouble?

I think in terms of private property, you could have someone removed just because you feel like it.

2) Is the Rose Quarter considered private property?

If the Blazers asked the police to ask fans to not chant negative things about the Lakers around the Garden, then I think that's the Blazers' business.

 

[maxiep]

I've been to hundreds of sporting events, and have never felt threatened even once. I've never witnessed a fight at a sporting event I attended, other than between players on the ice at a Winterhawks game (if a couple of heavily padded guys on skates slapping each other into exhaustion counts as a fight).

Nothing in a police force's dress, domineering demeanor, smug attitude, questionable behavior guidelines, decietful speech, threatening actions, obvious bigotry and bias, rampant drug and alcohol abuse on duty, and God complex speaks "safety" to me.

A police department that feels it must demonstrate a "show of force" to "keep trouble from happening" is a failed organization led by incompetents.

Clearly, you've never been to an Eagles game in Philadelphia.

 

[MARIS61]

That is super-cheesy and pretty worthless.

Ed O.

To you, a subserviant, obedient follower of the "designated authority" perhaps.

But it's how I make the big decisions in my life, and it's worked out splendidly so far.

 

[MARIS61]

Clearly, you've never been to an Eagles game in Philadelphia.

Why, are they all violent Neanderthals with no self-control or sense of sportsmanship?

Posters here act like fights between fans at sporting events are no big thing. Is this for real? Are young people that simple-minded these days?

I'm not lying when I say I've never seen one. I don't remember even hearing about any, other than the retarded riots they have overseas at soccer games.

 

[MARIS61]

2 Question:

1) Does your freedom of speech hold true on private property or can someone have your removed from their property for what they feel is stirring up trouble?

2) Is the Rose Quarter considered private property?

I'm seriously asking because I slept through my American Government class in high school

Private property is just that, and they can refuse service to anyone. They can have you removed. They cannot have you gagged or prevent you from speaking your mind, not legally anyway.

They can also blast LA SUCKS over the loudspeakers at the game and in the parking lot afterwards if they so choose.

They have that right.

 

[Natebishop3]

Why, are they all violent Neanderthals with no self-control or sense of sportsmanship?

Posters here act like fights between fans at sporting events are no big thing. Is this for real? Are young people that simple-minded these days?

I'm not lying when I say I've never seen one. I don't remember even hearing about any, other than the retarded riots they have overseas at soccer games.

I know for a fact that there have been fights between Timbers fans and Vancouver BC fans. I'm talking huge brawls.

And then there's that video that someone posted in another thread of a bunch of laker fans beating the snot out of a celtic fan IN staples.

 

[MARIS61]

I know for a fact that there have been fights between Timbers fans and Vancouver BC fans. I'm talking huge brawls.

And then there's that video that someone posted in another thread of a bunch of laker fans beating the snot out of a celtic fan IN staples.

I've only been to 1 Timbers game due to the incredible boring time I had, but I get the feeling more people die from bee stings at ballgames than from fistfights.

If you can't yell LA SUCKS at your own arena why bother to even attend the games?

I can watch at home on my pc and IM my buddy in Palmdale that his team sucks without fear of being clubbed by some steroid-popping PDX cop with stunted mental growth.

 

[Natebishop3]

I've only been to 1 Timbers game due to the incredible boring time I had, but I get the feeling more people die from bee stings at ballgames than from fistfights.

If you can't yell LA SUCKS at your own arena why bother to even attend the games?

I can watch at home on my pc and IM my buddy in Palmdale that his team sucks without fear of being clubbed by some steroid-popping PDX cop with stunted mental growth.

I don't know why I try to debate with someone who would have us all think that Sergio Rodriguez is untouchable. I'm surprised you haven't worked "bake it" into this thread somehow.

 

[Ed O]

Why, are they all violent Neanderthals with no self-control or sense of sportsmanship?

Posters here act like fights between fans at sporting events are no big thing. Is this for real? Are young people that simple-minded these days?

As I mentioned above, I saw three fights at a single NFL game in San Francisco.

One fight was just one on one in the stands. The next one was when Seahawks fans all went to a single section and three Niners fans jumped a guy before running from Seahawks fans and the cops. The third was in the parking lot, where two big groups were posturing with women holding guys back before hell broke loose.

It was thrilling but it was also quite scary and there was no doubt in my mind that any of the fights could have escalated. The one in the parking lot, in particular, could have EASILY involved gunplay given how close so many people were to their cars and the large number of people.

Fights at sporting events ARE big things. You're acting like they're not simply because you've never seen one.

Ed O.

 

[toutlaw25]

"Disturbing the peace" carries a very high burden of proof that would never apply to simple exuberant speech in that situation (outside an arena immediately after a game in the noisiest part of town).

Quit making shit up. The burden of proof for disturbing the peace is no different than any other criminal offense.

 

[The Professional Fan]

This is why I love you guys. Really.

I totally respected and understood why the cop(s) shut us down. They didn't want a riot, or any level of combat.

The RG during Laker games specifically is extremely CHARGED. Emotions are running wild. I get it.

Especially when it comes to Laker fans. They really are the most obnoxious and stupid.

 

[Sedatedfork]

This is why I love you guys. Really.

I totally respected and understood why the cop(s) shut us down. They didn't want a riot, or any level of combat.

The RG during Laker games specifically is extremely CHARGED. Emotions are running wild. I get it.

Especially when it comes to Laker fans. They really are the most obnoxious and stupid.

Prof. Fan -- I want you to sue so we can fight for our right to chant Lakers Suck.

 

[MARIS61]

Quit making shit up. The burden of proof for disturbing the peace is no different than any other criminal offense.

In most cases, it's not even a criminal offense, just a city noise ordinance violation, and it usually only applies in residential neighborhoods after curfew.

It is used to justify arrest but rarely does prosecution follow due to the basic unconstitutionality of it's basis.