Zombie The Coronavirus Financial Thread (Personal, Local, National)

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Orion Bailey said:
Socialism takes away any benefit of being a hard worked. It denies anyone the ability to get ahead based on their drive and work ethic. Its denying us the freedom to make for ourselves what we want..
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wut?

I've spent 40 years being self-employed. My ability to "get ahead" hasn't been burned by socialism. And my work ethic has not been impacted

besides that, I'm woke enough to realize that "socialism" is a nearly meaningless label. And a big reason for that is that there is no clear line between public and private. What separates is an extremely wide gray line than bleeds both directions

* socialism is not having to build your own highway when you go buy groceries
* socialism is everybody going to an airport and flying some place else
* socialism is the neighborhood school, police department, and fire station
* socialism is churches not paying property taxes but still getting police and fire protection
* socialism is the ambulance that comes and picks you up after you get drunk and fall off your roof (don't drink & roof)
* socialism is nuclear aircraft carrier and the dredges in harbors
* socialism is farm subsidies and the state department and hospitals and smoke jumpers

don't get me wrong, I've seen some of the abuses of government programs and got on a temporary slow burn as a result. I've been standing in line at the market while somebody buys junk food with food stamps and takes their bags out to fairly new cars. I've gotten crap at a party before when I got lubricated and started rapping about mothers on welfare maybe needing Norplant to stay on welfare. I've seen people on work disability who didn't belong there

but I'm aware enough to know that those are just the most visible types of welfare. A drop in the bucket compared to the Pentagon budget, farm subsidies, oil & gas subsidies; massive tax loopholes....which brings up a much more insidious type of socialism and that's the wealthy and powerful not paying anywhere close to their 'fair share' of taxes. That dwarfs welfare payments or unemployment benefits.

and the effect you're talking about as far as unemployment benefits exceeding normal income is only temporary. In fact, most of those people haven't even received the full range of those benefits because just about every state system has crashed. And it's now months after that stimulus was passed. Meanwhile, Several hundred billion of corporate welfare that was passed in the same stimulus bill was dispersed in record time. It has already been reflected in corporate quarterlies.

why don't you guys spend a fair amount of time grousing about those things instead of waxing about a theory how work ethics have been undermined by a temporary bump in unemployment benefits?
 
wizenheimer said:
wut?

I've spent 40 years being self-employed. My ability to "get ahead" hasn't been burned by socialism. And my work ethic has not been impacted

besides that, I'm woke enough to realize that "socialism" is a nearly meaningless label. And a big reason for that is that there is no clear line between public and private. What separates is an extremely wide gray line than bleeds both directions

* socialism is not having to build your own highway when you go buy groceries
* socialism is everybody going to an airport and flying some place else
* socialism is the neighborhood school, police department, and fire station
* socialism is churches not paying property taxes but still getting police and fire protection
* socialism is the ambulance that comes and picks you up after you get drunk and fall off your roof (don't drink & roof)
* socialism is nuclear aircraft carrier and the dredges in harbors
* socialism is farm subsidies and the state department and hospitals and smoke jumpers

don't get me wrong, I've seen some of the abuses of government programs and got on a temporary slow burn as a result. I've been standing in line at the market while somebody buys junk food with food stamps and takes their bags out to fairly new cars. I've gotten crap at a party before when I got lubricated and started rapping about mothers on welfare maybe needing Norplant to stay on welfare. I've seen people on work disability who didn't belong there

but I'm aware enough to know that those are just the most visible types of welfare. A drop in the bucket compared to the Pentagon budget, farm subsidies, oil & gas subsidies; massive tax loopholes....which brings up a much more insidious type of socialism and that's the wealthy and powerful not paying anywhere close to their 'fair share' of taxes. That dwarfs welfare payments or unemployment benefits.

and the effect you're talking about as far as unemployment benefits exceeding normal income is only temporary. In fact, most of those people haven't even received the full range of those benefits because just about every state system has crashed. And it's now months after that stimulus was passed. Meanwhile, Several hundred billion of corporate welfare that was passed in the same stimulus bill was dispersed in record time. It has already been reflected in corporate quarterlies.

why don't you guys spend a fair amount of time grousing about those things instead of waxing about a theory how work ethics have been undermined by a temporary bump in unemployment benefits?
Click to expand...

Yes, we can break down the definition into many sects. And some of those you listed , I think need reform as well.
However there is a difference, in my opinion between having a government collect funds to supply a universal defense, interstate highway structure and programs for the disabled and mentally ill vs collecting funds to give to a person to pay their bills instead of go out and work.

Sop while you are trying to say socialism is meaningless, okay. But in my statement, I said I think each case should be examined and determened needs/want and that almost all aid needs an overhaul.

So while it seems you are trying disagree with me, it seems we actually might agree.

So ...I'm not really following you last question..Unless you think because we pay towards an infrastructure to sustain all for our economy, that it should then be universal for any want or need across the board for all?

Trash pickup should be free whether I recycle or I do not, causing more trash?

Medical aid should be free for all regardless if im self destructive or not? I should have to pay for another's choice to let their body degrade, if they were healthy?

I'm to supplement funds to those who cant pay rent because they refuse to work full time? or prefer to pop out more kids to stay at home and collect welfare?

But yet we claim we want fairness for all? That's not fairness for all.

Fairness for all is making each person equally responsible for the decisions and actions they make and say. Nothing more. (current racial issues withstanding)
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Unexpected

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Hows that unexpected?

Restaurants are opening back up in lots of places and people can’t claim unemployment anymore that work there.

People are starting to go back to their underpaid jobs if those jobs have stayed afloat during all this
 
MickZagger said:
Hows that unexpected?

Restaurants are opening back up in lots of places and people can’t claim unemployment anymore that work there.

People are starting to go back to their underpaid jobs if those jobs have stayed afloat during all this
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INSIDE JOKE FOR THE ZEROHEDGERS IN THE BUILDING

MEDIA BUZZWORD

MEANS THE NUMBERS ARE BEING MANIPULATED
 
3Gesob3.jpg
 
Lanny said:
Canada's deaths per capita from Covid-19 is about 58% of ours. That makes our deaths per capita 173% as great as Canada's. Welcome to Trump's America.
I'd try another example if I were you.
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Take out the people's republic of NY and those numbers drop drastically. The clueless politicians there decided to put the sick in with the most vulnerable population possible. Over 40% of the country's deaths have come from those in nursing home type facilities when that is less than 2% of the population. Of that 40%, the vast majority of those were in 3-4 states. NY and WA being at the top.
 
TBpup said:
Take out the people's republic of NY and those numbers drop drastically. The clueless politicians there decided to put the sick in with the most vulnerable population possible. Over 40% of the country's deaths have come from those in nursing home type facilities when that is less than 2% of the population. Of that 40%, the vast majority of those were in 3-4 states. NY and WA being at the top.
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  1. New York is a state not a republic. A little lesson for you there;
  2. New York is the epicenter of all that's happening in America. It's where everybody goes that wants to get anything done. You might expect an international disease to center there;
  3. Unlike most of the red states, their rate of new infection has leveled off. How is Arkansas doing? They are mostly rural and extremely stupid. There are a few states that are more stupid but they are all red.
 
"Remember all the way back to Friday morning when Donald Trump strolled out to bask in the warm glow of an unexpected drop in the May unemployment rate? According to the jobs report issued on Friday morning, unemployment across the nation fell from 14.7% in April, to 13.3% in May. That makes unemployment merely a third higher than it was at the peak of the Great Recession. Trump was so excited by this outcome that he declared he wanted to buy “one of those trailers, what are they called?” and drive around the country with Melania. It was “the greatest comeback in American history.” In fact, it was so good that “George is looking down right now and saying: 'This is a great thing that's happening for our country.' This is a great day for him." Yes, Trump really said that.

So … funny thing. The actual jobs report appeared later in the day and it did say that the unemployment rate was 13.3%. But it also said that the BLS and the Census Bureau were investigating a “misclassification error” around workers sidelined by the coronavirus pandemic. The truth is that the actual unemployment rate was around 16.3%.

The problem was that the the surveys used for the jobs reports polled employers about jobs and put a large number of people into the category of being absent from work for “other reasons.” In this case, the reason was that companies had shut down or cut back because of the pandemic and related impacts. However, that category of “other reasons” is normally used for workers who are essentially taking some uncategorized form of leave. It’s used for people who are on jury duty or taking personal time off to deal with a family crisis. These people are still counted as being employed.

But in this case, that same category was used for people who had genuinely been let go due to the downturn caused by the COVID-19 crisis.

“If the workers who were recorded as employed but absent from work due to "other reasons" (over and above the number absent for other reasons in a typical May) had been classified as unemployed on temporary layoff, the overall unemployment rate would have been about 3 percentage points higher than reported.”

Had the unemployment rate actually declined to 13.3%, it still would have been a horrible number that was indicative of an economy struggling to cope with the sudden impact of the pandemic and a the bungled federal response. But that rate was illusory. The actual rate of 16.3% shows that the economy is still in serious trouble, and that the “rocket ship” of recovery Trump bragged about on Friday was science fiction … minus the science.

None of this means that the Bureau of Labor Statistics is intentionally mangling the numbers to please Trump. It simply means that this is an extraordinary situation in which the conventional categorizations of what it means to be employed or unemployed are being strained. It also means that Trump definitely should not have been in a hurry to rush out and deliver an 82 minute incredibly discursive discourse. But it doesn’t mean he can’t have an RV. He definitely should climb into an RV … and just keep driving.


Oh, and he should just keep George Floyd’s name out of his mouth."

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...eally-go-down-last-month-it-went-up#read-more

(and yes, I know that's a left wing website but sometimes they d a good job of analysis)
 
TBpup said:
Take out the people's republic of NY and those numbers drop drastically. The clueless politicians there decided to put the sick in with the most vulnerable population possible. Over 40% of the country's deaths have come from those in nursing home type facilities when that is less than 2% of the population. Of that 40%, the vast majority of those were in 3-4 states. NY and WA being at the top.
Click to expand...
I asked mags, and he wasnt able to, so I'll ask here, can you show the direct affect of putting the sick back in nursing homes, and the spike that it caused?
Not just showing nursing home deaths, or deaths of old people, but deaths after the sick were reintroduced into those homes?
 
RR7 said:
I asked mags, and he wasnt able to, so I'll ask here, can you show the direct affect of putting the sick back in nursing homes, and the spike that it caused?
Not just showing nursing home deaths, or deaths of old people, but deaths after the sick were reintroduced into those homes?
Click to expand...
Sounds like a project. I'd be interested to read what you come up with.
 
RR7 said:
I asked mags, and he wasnt able to, so I'll ask here, can you show the direct affect of putting the sick back in nursing homes, and the spike that it caused?
Not just showing nursing home deaths, or deaths of old people, but deaths after the sick were reintroduced into those homes?
Click to expand...

but even then, that wouldn't be the relevant number, would it?

I mean, say there were 4000 people who were re-introduced into nursing homes and 722 died. Out of the 722 you'd still need to calculate how many would have still died at the hospital in order to determine the spike due to re-introduction. In other words, you're looking for a small sub-set of excess deaths in a nursing-home/hospital ratio

I remember that earlier discussion when mags was busy tying to deflect blame and minimize the Covid impact. I don't know for certain, but I suspect the actual impact of this 'back-to-the-home' policy is actually pretty small....except of course that it's been used as a cudgel by trump supporters

that's not to say that Cuomo gets a pass for his response. He's done plenty of things wrong and this may have been one of them. He was slow to react and initially intractable. He's had the same faults with his attitude on the protests
 
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Click to expand...
 
Orion Bailey said:
Yes, we can break down the definition into many sects. And some of those you listed , I think need reform as well.
However there is a difference, in my opinion between having a government collect funds to supply a universal defense, interstate highway structure and programs for the disabled and mentally ill vs collecting funds to give to a person to pay their bills instead of go out and work.

Sop while you are trying to say socialism is meaningless, okay. But in my statement, I said I think each case should be examined and determened needs/want and that almost all aid needs an overhaul.

So while it seems you are trying disagree with me, it seems we actually might agree.

So ...I'm not really following you last question..Unless you think because we pay towards an infrastructure to sustain all for our economy, that it should then be universal for any want or need across the board for all?

Trash pickup should be free whether I recycle or I do not, causing more trash?

Medical aid should be free for all regardless if im self destructive or not? I should have to pay for another's choice to let their body degrade, if they were healthy?

I'm to supplement funds to those who cant pay rent because they refuse to work full time? or prefer to pop out more kids to stay at home and collect welfare?

But yet we claim we want fairness for all? That's not fairness for all.

Fairness for all is making each person equally responsible for the decisions and actions they make and say. Nothing more. (current racial issues withstanding)
Click to expand...
It's unfair to lump socialism into inherent laziness....doesn't work that way...socialism helps society...it's not all about the self....nobody stops you from making tons of shit to sell people if you want to but it sure helps capitalists if people have expendable income to buy the shit you make...public health care is just smart govt...fund it with a sales tax...simple...works in other countries without turning them into post war Stalingrad...there have always been and will always be lazy people but they aren't why we fund social programs...society needs to show humanity...at least the society I want to have as a neighbor
 
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Stock at 2.83 right now, down from a 5 day high of 5.54 (low 1.87)
 
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